...If when Verbal got in the car at the end, it was Keaton sitting there behind the wheel instead of "Kobayashi"? That would have thrown the entire complexion of the ending into dubiety.
shareCome on gents, offer some insight.
shareWell, that would've been exactly what Kujan said. Not really shocking.
shareI gotta admit, that's a GREAT idea. It might even have made the movie better and helped when it comes time to revisit it. I think that, once you know the twist ending, the movie has little in the way of rewatchability.
Anyway, GREAT GREAT idea. If you're curious about my thoughts on the flick, check out my review here: https://youtu.be/tZ4Qb6ndTqk
It would be eating your cake and shoving it up your butt too. They ruined all credibility IMO regarding Keaton being alive with the unneccessary first scene,then break their backs working backwards,trying to bring him back to life and make him a mythical figure,although ambivalent and schizophrenic feels more fitting,both acting and writingwise.
Come on...What are you thinking? In the last second,Verbal pins everything on Keaton,calling him the suspects mastermind and leader,making most stuff shown in flashbacks mean Very little.
Second,WE are the only ones who see Soze talk to and likely execute Keaton, meaning if Verbal gets in the car with Keaton,he wasn't manipulated into convincing Kujan of him being dead....OR alive. He sortavfailed horribly then cause what was his agenda??
It also would mean the first scene,where Soze kills Keaton would mean Both characters in a film pulled a prank on an audience with the visual aid of a camera they don´t even know exist.
What purpose would Kujans rant of misdirection, "Dean Keaton WAS Keyse rSöze!!"serve then? He was a doomed archetype a´la Carlito Brigante,although Carlito sealed his own fate in a more introspective way.
It doesn't even work on the unrealistic,childish premise that Keaton sent Verbal in there to mess with and taunt Kujan. Any true indication of Keaton being alive defeats the outcome of the story,although Singer and McQuarrie achieve that in the first scene.
Now...since Verbal is too young to have been a heavy player back in Hungary,it is possible he is Söze´s child or a skilled manipulator as his history suggests and that"Kobayashi" is the real Soze IF HE EXISTED,hiding in less plain but still plain sight and was assisted by his son in this elaborate scheme...Although the witnessdescription is spot on Verbal.Anycase...and I like people thinking outside the box;Yours was a truly terrible,nonsensical notion.
Going by the plots logic and machinations it is more likely awesome plot device Fenster is Söze. Right?We never see a body or a murder in reality and the kill is never confirmed by authorities or Kujan,he just implies he accepts it as part of Verbals confession. I'm out.
Second,WE are the only ones who see Soze talk to and likely execute Keaton,
Yeah,but the"pulled a prank"part never really flied with me since the voice despite him trying to make it deeper,sounds pretty Spacey. Feel that scene,implying Keaton is wounded and paralyzed would´ve worked much better without the shots we never see hit him.
Be better if the boat just was set on fire and he was thought to been fried,,more ambigous.Verbal wouldnt try to save Keaton from the flames if they were set by Keyser...So to speak...
...And us,viewers,getting a half second glimpse of Keaton being shot Dead was unneccessary,since it was not told in flashback by our narrator but during a Kujan rant...showing Keaton as Söze felt abit OTT IMO...
The narrator lying through his teeth is just fine,in this case,it makes the story.The camera lying too much can cause severe distrust in the storyteller he can´t comeback from....still,it´s a superb movie.
Yeah,but the"pulled a prank"part never really flied with me since the voice despite him trying to make it deeper,sounds pretty Spacey
Be better if the boat just was set on fire and he was thought to been fried,,more ambigous
And us,viewers,getting a half second glimpse of Keaton being shot Dead was unneccessary
showing Keaton as Söze felt abit OTT IMO
Killing Keaton not meant to be ambigous?You mean his implied death in the first scene is cut and dry or"Of course he didn´t die"?It occurs in the first scene.In reality...so pick one,please. Singer fights an uphill-battle the entire movie to bring him back to life,so to speak....
Singers confused directing of a Byrne who clearly had personal problems during the shoot with a script that paints him as coldblooded,soft, pragmatic, remorseful,more jumpy then Fenster,clever and cool,one scene for each adverb... the myth of Keaton is too fragmented too work.
We didn't need to hear the gunshots in the first scene since it's reality. Meaning IF Verbal was innocent and Keaton spared him to tell a skewed story,Keaton had a goon who was a great character actor and whos urine was unusually thick plus a very expensive goldwatch for no reason since Verbal does not mention it. Expensive suit and hat just for show,come on....
Verbal sort of winged it,maybe partially for kicks. Or it was his job,though wearing that pimp getup seems a bit conspicous. Being a cripple soul survivor of a chaotic shoot-out and explosion does not equal that he saw this part;three of his partners murdered. Did he see someone put a knife in Mac's neck?
Since it's told in flashback,does he even mention seeing Hockney getting his guts blown out? Its a very slow and visual death,way more then Kestons but I guess you don't have to ID a shooter if your interrogator doesn't ask. The FAQ on this film is very misleading since they take certain parts from Verbals narration as truth.
Verbal didn't even have to talk to Kujan. It's unlikely he was Söze(Interesting how a hungarian criminal could id him. Did Arturo describe his face to his captors who then described it to the hungarians before they even bought him? Did Söze walk around announcing his presence while killing people on both sides plus his suspects when the whole mission and hit required discretion,stealth and his Anonymity? Hmm...)but possible and was at the least close to him.Kobayashi is a good candidate.
He could've been long gone. Seems he was confident once Arturo was dead...forget that suddenly a new witness now can id him. With Sözes reach,Verbal or not,knowing this plus not chatting with obsessed agents would seem a priority.
The cops and Kujan uncovered what they did without or despite Verbals account for events;Söze,Arturo Marquez,Edies fate etc...they would never get much closer in the factdepartment,if so,it would take time. Kujan is in the end still not convinced if Keaton is Söze or dead,something Verbal easily could achieve but these fictional characters have an audience to concider.
Is it called deus ex machina? An unlikely,too convenient plotsolution? Anywho,Verbal mentioning posting bail barely saved his gambling ass since Kujan said he posted 20 min ago...3 min later and they'd have him and the sketch,he'd be finished...Luck,didn't even come down to being smarter and no need to drop a cup without the sketch,just cause the name Redfoot was stolen from the wall and a pointless comment about an Illinois barbershop quartet...Kujan already knew he had lied for Hours about faaaarr more important and implicating aspects of his version regardless what the truth was.
Verbal says he saw Keaton get shot in the back and fall,pretty sure he died,he said. But if he were telling the...initial truth,he sat there watching for two minutes before Söze killed him. IF the first scene is to have relevance.
Flashbacks tell Verbals story,Kujans version shows the truth but Verbal never ever said he saw Keaton executed at point blank range. So Kujans mind shows us a hypothetical but likely event....one he NEVER believed happened. Hence the film gets itself into a little trouble...
Verbal moments later"admitting"it was all bs,calling Keaton the mastermind and leader already there makes much we saw indecipherable....plus Verbals,not Spaceys poor acting,trying to cry and saying-I killed Keaton when Kujan yells,a very odd choice only cements the fact that he's beyond untrustworthy...
No,one word wouldn't register...but an actors fame doesn't play in,many stars have generic voices and a cinephile would be familiar with his voice in 95,don't project ignorance and preconcieved notions on others if you´re so kind... Spacey has a very distinct voice. The second line sort of lingers,you think its him but so much happens,you put it aside.Still....TUS is very enjoyable,mindbanging manipulation though.
Killing Keaton not meant to be ambigous?You mean his implied death in the first scene is cut and dry or"Of course he didn´t die"?It occurs in the first scene.In reality...so pick one,please. Singer fights an uphill-battle the entire movie to bring him back to life,so to speak....
Singers confused directing of a Byrne who clearly had personal problems during the shoot with a script that paints him as coldblooded,soft, pragmatic, remorseful,more jumpy then Fenster,clever and cool,one scene for each adverb... the myth of Keaton is too fragmented too work.
We didn't need to hear the gunshots in the first scene since it's reality. Meaning IF Verbal was innocent and Keaton spared him to tell a skewed story,Keaton had a goon who was a great character actor and whos urine was unusually thick plus a very expensive goldwatch for no reason since Verbal does not mention it. Expensive suit and hat just for show,come on....
Being a cripple soul survivor of a chaotic shoot-out and explosion does not equal that he saw this part;three of his partners murdered. Did he see someone put a knife in Mac's neck?
Interesting how a hungarian criminal could id him.
The cops and Kujan uncovered what they did without or despite Verbals account for events;Söze,Arturo Marquez,Edies fate etc...they would never get much closer in the factdepartment,if so,it would take time. Kujan is in the end still not convinced if Keaton is Söze or dead,something Verbal easily could achieve but these fictional characters have an audience to concider.
Luck,didn't even come down to being smarter and no need to drop a cup without the sketch,just cause the name Redfoot was stolen from the wall and a pointless comment about an Illinois barbershop quartet...Kujan already knew he had lied for Hours about faaaarr more important and implicating aspects of his version regardless what the truth was
But if he were telling the...initial truth,he sat there watching for two minutes before Söze killed him.
Flashbacks tell Verbals story,Kujans version shows the truth
I killed Keaton when Kujan yells
Spacey has a very distinct voice.
don't project ignorance and preconcieved notions on others if you´re so kind
THAT just messed my head up!! What a premise.. with so many excellent and intriguing plot changes/additions offered by fans of this movie this is by far the greatest movie comitted to memory. And when I say greatest I do not necessarily mean the best. For me, this is truly prefect. Absolutely the definition of storytelling. Perfectly cast, God I sound like a weido! I just love this film...
shareHere's another theory, what if Roger Kint, as his record shows he is actually just a con-artist? Kobayashi looks pretty much old enough to be his dad and there is a resemblance. And the story he weaves in Kujan's office is just him doing what he does?
shareNah, that would have sucked. Firstly, it was far better that Kujan was blaming an innocent (in this case) man whilst letting the one he wanted walk free. Secondly, Keyser Söze is supposed to work alone, yadda yadda, not pal up with ex-cops.
share