Most overrated movie ever?


The entire movie was nothing more than a fabrication. 80% of it's never happened. A good twist should enable the viewer to look back at all of the scenes in the movie and put them together in order to make sense. But in this case, none of it happens, therefore the entire movie is pointless! And it makes absolutely no logical sense why kaiser Sozay chooses to appear at a police station of all places, being that he supposedly goes through such incredible lengths never to be seen? Basically, the entire movie is nothing more than a made-up lie, he could have told any story that he wanted to, and just because he was able to make up a far-fetched story with the help of pulling names off of bulletin board doesn't make it's a great twist of an ending, it makes it's a stupid poorly acted subpar pointless movie.

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Did you check the IMDB's Top 250??? 50% of those films are overrated as hell. This film was great but I guess people overrate its status a little bit

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Not at all. Great movie that is far from overrated and deserves its praise. And very rewatchable to try and figure what could or couldn't have happened. You have no idea if 80% never happened. Just like Verbal fooled the detective, he could've fooled the others. It's possible that 90% of the movie happened as it was shown.

You also have no idea if Soze tries to never be seen. It's possible, even likely in my opinion, that he shows his face all the time, pretending to be someone else.

Smart and very well-acted movie.

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Well, the fact he used the bulletin board behind the detectives desk as a reference to almost every character and situation tells us that the entire story was just that, a story. Take the movie the sixth sense, when we found out Willis was dead we're able to go back thru the film and piece it together and after knowing the "twist" all the scenes make sense . After we found out Kevin spacey made up every name, place and situation, the entire movie has no real meaning except the fact that sozay is a good story teller and achieved his goal.

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Well, the fact he used the bulletin board behind the detectives desk as a reference to almost every character and situation tells us that the entire story was just that, a story.


I think that's an exaggaration, most things he took from the bulletin board were unimportant details, like the barbershop quartet from Skokie, Illinois. It certainly tells us that Verbal's story is not to be trusted, but it doesn't tell us how much is fake or real. The fact that he put up a whole other persona and fooled the detective, suggests that he might have done the same with the other guys. It's not comparable to The Sixth Sense, but you can go back to see what COULD be true and what most likely DID happen (just like the Soze myth in the movie) and discuss it with friends or even strangers. That's the merit of the movie for me. I guess I don't need that 100% certainty like you do.

BTW, I love The Sixth Sense, but it leaves a lot of questions unanswered. What does Malcolm do between scenes? How does he end up at all these places? Does he even talk to people or notice it when they don't say anything back? I can definitely theorize about it, but the movie itself doesn't make any sense of it.

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I get what your sayin. After reading interviews with the director and actors, I don't think they even knew what "actually" transpired. The movie just seems kind of thrown together with no real purpose, then the revelation of spacey being sozay just leaves everything up for interpretation. I don't need 100% certainty, in fact I prefer films that require the use of imagination. Take the matrix for example, the entire purpose of that movie was to create debate about what is or isn't, but every scene and almost every sentence spoke had relevance. I'm just playin devils advocate somewhat on the usual suspects, it's not a bad film, I just dont think it deserves the praise for being "brilliant" like so many people say that's all.

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Personally, I don't think it seems "thrown together", I feel everything carefully leads up to the twist, but oh well.

You may feel that the film doesn't deserve the praise it gets (I think it does), but calling it the "most overrated movie ever" did seem like an exaggeration. Most people won't mention this film in their top 5.

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Ok ok! Thanks to you I'm about to rewatch it right now. I'm in Florida and it's 100 degrees outside., thank god for air conditioning and netflix. I'm a huge movie buff, just signed up on imdb, seems like a great forum to discuss films with fellow movie fans like yourself. Sorry if I came off as being abrasive, I really appreciate your opinion and look forward to discussing other movies with you in the future.

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No no, don't rewatch it because of me, I know you're gonna be disappointed! I'm perfectly alright with you not liking the movie that much, I just wanted to let you know my opinion and not change yours. But okay, come back and we can discuss any other criticisms you've got, I'm sure you'll have a few.;)

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I just finished watching the movie a few minutes back and I don't think the movie is overrated at all. Kevin Spacey acted brilliantly and pulled off the character of a cowardly cripple yet the twist was that he was the evil mastermind behind the boat job and related crimes and killings. You don't see movies this good with a seemingly simple story but yet there are stories beneath stories and layers of twists without making the movie too confusing. A 9.0/10 is what it deserves.

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This!

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What related crimes and killings? The entire story was made up, none of it happened. The only twist was that the criminal mastermind soze, who in his entire life never managed to be photographed, decides to freely walk in a police station to tell a b.s. Story to a detective? The story was pointless, just like the movie.

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What related crimes and killings? The entire story was made up, none of it happened.


He's probably referring to New York's Finest Taxi Service and the murder of Saul Berg. New York was Kujan's terrain, so he would know if a crime liked that happened in broad daylight. I'm not sure about Saul Berg, but he was murdered in a garage in LA, so that would be easy to check.

The entire story was made up, none of it happened.


We can't be sure what DID happen, but to state as a fact that NONE of it happened isn't correct, in my opinion. Technically, everything could've happened with just the names changed. But yeah, I already commented on that before.

decides to freely walk in a police station to tell a b.s. Story to a detective? The story was pointless


If you mean the dope deal gone wrong story, that was just to put the police on the wrong track and to have the case closed as quickly a possible. So it did have a point. As for the added part of the story he told Kujan, he still had to post bail so he was forced to put up with him, and he clearly enjoyed playing games with Kujan. It makes sense considering his elaborate creation of the Soze myth.

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What related crimes and killings? The entire story was made up, none of it happened.


- Kujan (the detective interviewing Soze / Verbal) referenced other crimes, killings, and criminals that they both new about. Whether the story was completely true or not, it had to have some truth and believable elements for Kujan to release him. Only the faxed drawing revealed that Verbal was actually Soze, after he realized the many fabrications in Verbal's story.

The point seemed to be that Soze has an issue with all of the criminals from the past and used them, ultimately getting revenge.

A brilliant, clever movie indeed. Like Pulp Fiction or others with an interesting twist and challenging central theme.

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There are certain pieces of the story that must be real - for example the first "f$ck you" to the police where they hijack and burn the police car that was acting as a cab service.

The cops would have been able to look that up, reports would have existed.

I think that sets up the tone for the movie, the events existed, but perhaps the way they occurred differ and it's up to each viewer to interpret it as they may.

Which is why I think its a great movie - everybody can see a different plot.

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I just watched it and I would give it a 7/10. Solid crime flick but definitely not as good as the 8.7/10 rating on IMDB suggests.

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This!

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NO Not Overrated there are some movies who are much more overrated like Godfather,Goodfellas,Casino,The Departed,City of God.

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It can be overrated even THOUGH other movies that you mention are overrated. I am watching this for the first time and ugh, FORCING myself to watch it. I hate that - when I feel compelled to figure out why this movie has such a reputation!

Actually, I'm a huge fan - not of Bryan Singer, but of Christopher McQuarrie, who wrote the script. That's what makes me want to watch it through to the end. In the meantime, Kevin Spacey is one actor I don't like much, so that makes it more difficult.

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It's been a while since I've seen it, but I do remember being pretty blown away by this movie.
I thought the entire cast acted their socks off, I'm surprised to hear that you thought the acting subpar.

The thing about any top lists of any art form, they try to objectify the subjective, which is sort of silly. But this one more than any other (simply because of the sheer amount of voters) must be as close to managing it as can be.

If it was up to me, I would only have about 50 of the imdb in the top 250.

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I'm with you on this. It would have been a much more efficient use of everybody's time, not least mine, if they had put the clever twist at the start instead of the end.

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I thought one of the best aspects of the film was the blurred lines between reality and fiction : what did happen ? Did any of it ? Some of it happened...they were definitely all at the lineup then at the boat (or were they at the boat...had the bodies of McManus,Keaton and pollack been IDed yet?)..
I think that the characterization of Keaton really showcased these blurred lines between fantasy and reality because of the way he acted. He was such a mystery , had such a duality about him , it was one of the most interesting portraits of a criminal I've seen in a long time and that's because we never knew if he did anything that Kint said he did. Or did he? For all we know, Kint could have been telling the story like Keaton was who he actually was while Keaton was the scared 'crippled' in the corner.

I really enjoy the incredible over exagerated criminal behavior of the group. Because...well did it happen or not? I love watching the movie and trying to see when the fiction began appearing alongside the reality (I would guess somewhere near the jewel heist).

I absolutely love that the characters and story are symbols of what could have been, or what wasn't or perhaps...what was.

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Totally agree with you, Martina_Helene!

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Yes I agree. watched it the other day and I thought: This actually is mediocre.

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Omg!! There's actually one person who agrees with me:) cheesy acting, and a "twist" ending that revealed nothing except that the entire movie was a lie told by a "criminal mastermind" that decides to freely walk into a police station for no reason at all after going thru tremendous lifelong efforts to keeping his identity secret? Just silly if you ask me

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I agree with you as well. I actually like Spacey's acting, and I think the ending, while not as amazing as people make it out to be, was still good. Now, even though I thought the ending was good, it ruined the rest of the movie for me and is exactly as you say: silly.

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Your right on with your comment. Spaceys acting was really good, so was Gabriel Byrne. Kevin pollack makes a horrible tough guy though. Movies entertaining, just seriously flawed and overrated.

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You want to see a overrated movie in the IMDb Top 250? Simply, The Dark Knight. Top four, more than The Schindler's List, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, Pulp Fiction, Forrest Gump and more movies better than this. The Usual Suspects is one of my favourites movies, yeah. And not is overrated in the Top.

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You can say the purpose of the film was to demonstrate the cunning ability of a criminal mastermind, it was almost a character study. Yes he was a brilliant pathological liar and he was playing games with the detective, and we don't know what was true and what was a lie but we can assume some truth behind the lies given that he was Soze,and was a genius criminal mastermind. If you use your imagination, you can continue the story and assume Soze's picture would end up #1 on America's top fugitive list. Maybe he ends up disappearing never to be heard from again, maybe he gets caught within a couple years and stands trial to face 100+ years in prison, maybe only to disappear again while awaiting trial. Maybe his arrogance, toying the the detective is what ends up doing him in. I love the ending and it's a finer example of a twist than anything Shyamalan has done. It was up there with me as the the most rememberable along with Shutter Island.

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I've seen it ages ago... but are you sure he walks in there for no reason ?

IMO

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Omg!! There's actually one person who agrees with me:) cheesy acting, and a "twist" ending that revealed nothing except that the entire movie was a lie told by a "criminal mastermind" that decides to freely walk into a police station for no reason at all after going thru tremendous lifelong efforts to keeping his identity secret? Just silly if you ask me


This is all on the assumptions that a) Verbal was Soze b) If he was, he is as all seeing and all powerful as he is in the stories about him c) he could have easily escaped after the ship blew up

Now, we dont really know for sure who Verbal is. From the FAQs page:

It's entirely plausible that all the evidence that pointed to Verbal Kint being Keyser Söze was red herrings, and someone else could have been the mythical crime lord. For example, Verbal doesn't look old enough to have been married with children. However, it wouldn't be too shocking if he was simply Keyser Soze's son continuing the family tradition. The story about Soze shooting his children is true, but Verbal survived by hiding when the thugs came in. In fact, Kobayashi could reasonably have been Keyser Soze. He is clearly in his late 50s or early 60s, making a larger window for him to become one of the most powerful criminals in the world. He's less amazingly steeped in American culture, vernacular and geography for a Turkish crime lord compared to Verbal, he never gets directly involved in his crimes, let alone enters a police station and gives clues that could ruin a cherished identity, preferring instead to have those jobs be carried out by middlemen. Under this theory, Verbal is a conman who is Keyser's infiltrator who helps him stay on top, and also even plays the part of Keyser sometimes, such as on the boat, while "Kobayashi" remains completely behind the scenes and his face remains a secret. While not the intended theory, it is plausible.

So really we cant say for certain who he is.

If he is Soze, he could simply be using 'Kayser Soze the myth' to his advantage, when in reality he could be no where as powerful as the myths make him out to be and simply relies on all the horror stories and legends in order to intimidate his opponents.

Finally, even if he was Soze (or worked for him) there is no guarantee that he could have easily escaped after the ship blew up. We dont know what happened immediately afterwards or the situation he was in. Maybe he rationalised that it would be easier to play the part of Verbal the cripple and allow himself to be taken in by the police, rather than risking his life trying to escape, knowing that he is 'protected up on high by the prince of darkness himself' and that the political pressure he could call upon would get him off the hook immediately. Or perhaps getting caught was the final piece of his plan so that he could get the case closed asap with the story of a dope deal gone bad with no survivors. He may have even rationalised that a smarter cop with a hard on for Keaton may interrogate him at some point and he could lead him into thinking that Keaton was the man behind it all.

As far as it all being pointless as its clearly made up, well that's not the case at all. As people have already said the Verbals story is perfectly feasible. We know that there was a line up with the 5 and we know that this was orchestrated for the purposes of getting them all together with the view of them carrying out the attack on the boat. The events that unfolded in between could have happened to lead the 5 from the line up to the boat job. I think its great that we dont know if the entire thing is a lie or not, its part of what makes the twist so great.

The film does leave clues about the twist throughout. Again the the FAQs page:
es, there are some. One is Verbal's relative position on the night of the attack. He is hiding behind a stack of material on the dock. When Hockney is killed, Verbal would have been the closest person to him. In his testimony, shown in flashback, Verbal supposedly takes cover behind some large spools of rope on the dock as he observes Soze on the boat. However, when the camera zooms in on this area from the opposite side after the explosion, no one is seen peering through the ropes.

In the opening scene, we see Keyser Söze look at a gold pocket watch and produce a gold cigarette lighter. Later, in the scene where the gang threatens Kobayashi, we see Verbal wearing a similar watch. He also collects this watch, along with a gold cigarette lighter, as he leaves the police station, despite having earlier demonstrated his inability to use a similar lighter during his questioning.

In the interrogation, Verbal comments that when he gets dehydrated his urine becomes thick and lumpy due to a kidney condition. In the opening scene when Keyser Söze urinates on the fire, his urine is thick and lumpy.

When agent Kujan begins to suggest that Keaton might be the one behind the hit on the docks, Verbal can be seen starting to smile. When Kujan comes around from behind Verbal and looks him in the face, the smile disappears, and Verbal continues to pretend loyalty to Keaton. During the interrogation throughout the movie, although it is easy to miss upon a first viewing, Verbal is seen glancing for a second or two away from Kujan or over Kujan's shoulder at the wall behind him in full view of wanted posters and advertisement flyers of names as Verbal is clearly making up the names of the mysterious associates and contacts such as 'Redfoot' and 'Kobayashi' when Kujan's questioning becomes more intense as it revealed that Verbal Kint is making up (on the spur-of-the-moment) aliases of his co-conspirators as he goes along.

Keyser Söze is described by Verbal as being of mixed Turkish/German heritage. "Söze" is Turkish for "talks too much," or "verbal." "Keyser" sounds like the German word "Kaiser," meaning "emperor," while "Kint" sounds like "king." Director Bryan Singer has referred to the name as essentially meaning "The king that talks too much."

Finally, one might simply recognize that when Söze whispers "How ya doin' Keaton?" at the start of the film, the voice is that of Verbal/Kevin Spacey. After being thrown on the ground Verbal slips " I did kill Keaton," though Kujan is shouting too loud to hear, and Verbal is able to correct himself by saying "I did see Keaton get shot." Also, when they are listening to the men before the attack on the boat Keaton speculates that they are speaking Russian, Verbal correctly identifies the language as Hungarian, something Soze would obviously know.

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Hey, I agree too. I couldn't stop thinking this is just a B-movie involving crime, I don't really get the hype around it. The ending just seemed thrown in there with no real explanation; as for the facts... they don't make much sense in light of the final disclosure. So were they all lies? Honestly, I don't care enough about this movie to look for an answer.
If I were to bet, I'd say the director just threw some final plot-twist, without expecting that the movie would ever get this popular.
I don't understand its rating, I still view it as a B-movie, and there's a lot of solid movies out there that maybe don't even make it in the imdb top 250, let alone on place #24.

But it was entertaining, though, i'll give it that. Maybe that's how it earned its place. too bad for the good movies out there :))

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BMFER-1 nailed it... It was a good movie worth watching but nothing special and has little business being considered a top 25 movie of all-time.

The style of the movie does allow a solid reason why many really like it, but it falls short of an all-time great and comes off very mediocre

6 / 10

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Could agree more I thought it sucked

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We should create a web site/app in which people can log in and rate movies. Then see what this movies rates at. It's the only way to determine its appropriate rating based on the opinion of the viewing public.

Also, we could feature a message board on it in which we can debate the validity of such ratings.

Just an idea I been kickin around.

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This movie was released seemingly at a time when imdb was up and coming to the general public and the top 250 list was still young. There's a clear over abundance of mid-90's films with unbelievably high slots in the top 250 which imo can only be attributed to this.

Theres like a second wave of this happening now as well. But I believe this wave is due to imdb being overrun by the facebook generation of tweens and young adults with film knowledge which dates back a month. What used to take a film years to gain even 100000 votes now takes a weekend. The list is forever *beep* ed from here on out. Hell, even now the list is 40% post-2000 films.

I've always been curious to see what the list would be like if it were to reset, but nowadays i'm too frightened by what i'd probably see.

you are reading my signature.

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