I dealt with all of these questions in my fan fic sequels, since they were all about KR. So, in my interpretation:
Obviously Dr. Railly will report that Goines is a bio-terrorist releasing a deadly virus.
But she wasn't believed
They will likely detain him when he lands and discover the virus
We don't know how quick his journey through the several cities was, but in my story he's elusive (from the airport incident he figures he might have to be adaptable) and his trip is too fast, anyway. And notice he'd picked big targets with lots of population to lose himself quickly.
So how does this effect the timeline(s)or is it pre-determined?
The future is there, already, so we know he kills off 5 Billion no matter the FBI/CIA/Interol etc. can do.
but they will know that it was Goines right?
In my story, this and more information was lost in the chaos that soon develops.
The pure form will always have been recovered
Nada, but even if it is/were, it may take them 25 years to find out how to develop vaccines from it; still, in the movie they say they're after the "pure form", so we can presume it may have been another thing lost in the chaos.
unless they kill Railly soon after to make sure no alteration.
You mean "the future guys"? I never thought of that. I don't think they're that blood-thirsty.
In my story she was bound to be one of the early virus casualties, but something happens... !
Anyway, check my site below for a bit more information.
Links to "Twelve Monkeys" Pages
www.tempesta-tormenta.ca
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Cradocus
11 years ago
Thanks for the link. Will check it out.
All the answers seem reasonable. I do recall one part though where Jose was tasked with killing Railly... and that the Scientists weren't keen on altering the past too much.
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cassbtt
11 years ago
Jose was tasked with killing Railly
It's entirely reasonable that one would put emphasis on that. I never did, curiously. I think in an old post I speculated about Jose's mission(s) ... wait... here it is: (but I never contemplated that he'd seriously murder Railly)
In any case, if history can't be changed, why would Cole's bosses need to arrange his death? It would just happen anyway, or if they wanted him dead they could have Jose or someone else shoot him (which is I think what happens in "La Jetee").
This has always been a boggle. Maybe we're not examining all the possibilities.
How about this:
The scientists sent JOSE back... to do the shooting of the "virus man"!
But once there, Jose betrayed his "buddy" Cole and handed the job off to him. After scoping out the scene, Jose might have figured he couldn't do it without being shot, so he suckered Cole into it.
Even the scowl that "Scarface" (the tall, white haired guard on the escalator) gave Jose and Cole may have been directed specifically at Jose, not Cole.
Anyway, this would fit the timeline as it ended up playing out, but it isn't quite as conspiratorial. It's just plain old back-stabbing human nature. And since we don't know the motivations and didn't see the planning for the mission, anything's possible.
The thing you have to remember about this story is to let your imagination run wild against linear thinking. For instance, when the Doctor from the future ("Jones", who's called the "Astrophysicist" in the screenplay) shows up in the airport to do her thing.
Yes, she appears "minutes later" on the plane, but the decision to have her do that may have been made after about 50 other time transfers that we didn't see, that fine-tuned the whole thing, including sending Jose back ten times besides the two we saw, or sending the white-haired guard back a couple more, sending lesser scientists back, going to different times before and after, maybe even getting a half-baked vaccine for the Astrophysicist so that when she attended she won't die right off.
That's the power of time travel.
Links to "Twelve Monkeys" Pages
www.tempesta-tormenta.ca
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BenLikesStuff
11 years ago
Yes, she appears "minutes later" on the plane, but the decision to have her do that may have been made after about 50 other time transfers that we didn't see, that fine-tuned the whole thing, including sending Jose back ten times besides the two we saw, or sending the white-haired guard back a couple more, sending lesser scientists back, going to different times before and after, maybe even getting a half-baked vaccine for the Astrophysicist so that when she attended she won't die right off.
That's the power of time travel.
And she said she is in INSURANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ironic little thing, isn't she?
Wow.
So if she's one of the future "council" scientists, delivering herself to sit next to the plague dog himself,
"I'm in INSURANCE..."
That makes her a cool-as-a-cucumber bad-ass, she sits right next to that genocidal bastard and makes a joke that flies totally over that smug mass-murderer's radar.
The insurance she's into is for the human freaking race.
(Dare I get my hopes up? Maybe HE ought to have some insurance... ASS-WHUPPING insurance... and he's about to pay a
deductible...)
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jnleonrd
10 years ago
They can't alter the past. They can only observe it in order to find the source of the infection and then use that information in order to confront it in the present.
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breed3011
11 years ago
interesting stuff - where is your fan fic posted - might want to take a look at that?
I agree that the scientists are a little more calculating than a superficial viewing of the film suggests. Jose handing Cole the gun suggests the prisoners of the future want Cole to grasp the opportunity to change the future - but it fails (either because it just fails, or because it had to fail as past events cannot be changed).
I have thought a lot about this and done a couple of blog posts about my thoughts on 12 Monkeys
https://breedbites.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/12-monkeys-the-hidden-sub-plot-you-didnt-spot/
https://breedbites.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/12-monkeys-time-travel-timelines/
I would be interested to know your thoughts very much - very rare 2 ardent 12 monkeys nutcases get to exchange views in the real world!
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cassbtt
11 years ago
very rare 2 ardent 12 monkeys nutcases get to exchange views in the real world!
There are quite a few here, just be patient and they'll filter back now and then. It should pick up now that the SyFy series is coming.
interesting stuff - where is your fan fic posted
It's down; see story at the bottom of my little site.
want Cole to grasp the opportunity to change the future
Further to your blog post about "changing the past", it could very well be that they'd discussed the possibility with Cole (off camera, what we didn't see) because the ease with which Jose seems to be able to convince Cole that such a thing is even possible, seems strangely inconsistent to the rest of the story.
The typical view on this board has been that they got Cole to try to shoot the guy (in an airport, for heaven's sake) and thus it was "death by cop"; that they knew he'd be taken out by airport security.
Maybe they knew Cole would get boggled by Jose's suggestion, presuming they were behind it and it wasn't just Jose's initiative, probably due to Cole's love-struck status, or maybe his general state of (confused) mind. The scientists probably had metrics on how much their time travellers could "handle".
http://www.themanyfacesofabby.ca (including fan-fiction derivative sequel!)
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databyter
10 years ago
To "cassbtt",
Loved your fantastic reply to the OP.
She is detained, questioned, by stubborn low rent cops who think she's a nut with Stockholm syndrome.
She likely tells of her fears, but her story, her belief that a virus is about to wipe out humanity, is likely to be discarded since it originated from the 'delusions" of time travel from a man who used to be her patient, and is now her fugitive lover.
In the sane world, her cries for help would eventually net some results, provided there was facts to back them up. Unfortunately the truth gets loss in the chaos and her "case" becomes a low priority as she, and most of the detectives, become sick and die in the coming weeks. The facts that would prove her correct, are in fact the chaos itself, and the leap of faith that she herself had, was not forthcoming from the simple black and white thinking of the cops who had her pegged and stereotyped.
It's sort of sad, but makes for a great story, and a totally plausable time-loop.
Databyter
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