MovieChat Forums > Twelve Monkeys (1996) Discussion > What was the significance of 'Twelve' an...

What was the significance of 'Twelve' and 'Monkeys'

posted 12 years ago by icyharris-539-169904
9 replies | jump to latest

I know Jeffrey Goines kept going on and on about monkeys while he and James Cole were in the psych ward. That may have had to do with his dad's experiments as well as his overall disdain of being given psychotropic in an institution. But what of the number "12" and why was that put together with "Monkeys." I wonder if it was contained in the explanation that one of his followers explained to Cole. I didn't catch all that.

While I'm at it, how in the world did J. Goines get released from the mental institution? They never stopped trying to get Cole back in but arguably, JG was definitely the most off of the two. Was it his dad's money?

Do/did institutions like that exist whether really in 1990 or even today? That looked like the most run-down, horrible place for even a mental patient. I know Georgia was sued by the Justice Department for keeping people institutionalized for years (some of them all of their adult life). Now they are closing state hospitals and trying to integrate the former residents into the community. I have no doubt some of those state hospitals were doozies, but I don't think they were as bad as what was depicted in the film.

Last, I don't know why they had Pitt do his eyes like that. I work around mentally ill people and I can assure you that most don't have eye problems.

[–] cassbtt 12 years ago

But what of the number "12" and why was that put together with "Monkeys."

Twelve for "time", since that's what this movie's about?

how in the world did J. Goines get released from the mental institution?

Who knows. But we see him "out" in 1996. He was "in" in 1990. A lot can happen in 6 years.

Let some others answer your other q's

[–] col_w 12 years ago

12 Monkeys: In the scene where Cole has the three animal rights activists tied up, one of them explains it. Goines and 11 others split from the group as they wanted to take more drastic action (e.g. they released 100 snakes into the senate and later freed the animals from the zoo). So there were 12 of them and they 'monkeyed around'.

Goines release: Yes, I'd guess it was his dad's money / influence.

[–] breed3011 11 years ago

true - but i think that 12 wasnt a number that the writers chose arbitrarily - it fits into the prophesy/religious imagery used in the film.

James Cole (initials JC) is the [failed] saviour of mankind
12 monkeys = 12 apostles
etcetera etcetera

[–] MrCottonsParrot 11 years ago

Last, I don't know why they had Pitt do his eyes like that. I work around mentally ill people and I can assure you that most don't have eye problems.

His dodgy eye was not connected to his mental health. He obviously always had that.

I thought Brad would surely have got a terrible headache crossing his eye like that the whole time. So I freeze-framed a close up of Brad's face while crosseyed, and the dodgy eye appeared more "red" than the other one! I deduced that it must have been a "full-eye" contact lens that had the iris in a slightly different position.

"Champagne for my real friends, and real pain for my sham friends..."

[–] excalibur212 11 years ago

you needed to freeze frame to figure that out? LOL.

BTW this was one of the most pointless movies I've seen in a long time. Exposition and exposition, half of could have been edited out and it wouldn't have made any difference. This movie has no point is and is horribly made. 2 hours of my life I won't ever get back.

[–] ph75006 10 years ago

It was quite obvious that it was a contact lens because the iris was flat (real eyes have depth). You could even see the outlines of the lens in the close-ups without having to freeze frame it. But it didn't matter because I just pretended that his character had a glass eye (somehow this helped me to stop noticing it all the time, to a point where it become too distracting).

[–] psdhart 11 years ago

Do/did institutions like that exist whether really in 1990 or even today? That looked like the most run-down, horrible place for even a mental patient. I know Georgia was sued by the Justice Department for keeping people institutionalized for years (some of them all of their adult life). Now they are closing state hospitals and trying to integrate the former residents into the community. I have no doubt some of those state hospitals were doozies, but I don't think they were as bad as what was depicted in the film.

http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/t/12monkeys.html
Turns out the asylum in the film was the Philadelphia’s Eastern State Penitentiary, 22nd Street :

"The asylum where he’s subsequently incarcerated is Philadelphia’s Eastern State Penitentiary, 22nd Street at Fairmount Avenue. When Charles Dickens visited the USA, he declared that there were two things he wanted to see: Niagara Falls was one, thither was the Eastern State Pen.

This – radical in its day – architectural wonder, a central hub with seven ‘spokes’ radiating outwards, was the brainchild of the Quaker movement, a humane alternative to the corrupt, disease-ridden dumping grounds that served as prisons in the 19th century. The guiding principle was solitary confinement.

With only the Bible, a little daily work and no human contact whatsoever (even meals were served through holes in the wall so the prisoner could have no contact with the warder), the inmate, freed from temptation, would revert to a natural state of innocence. In fact, they mostly went mad.

One who survived intact was Al Capone, who resided here for eight months in 1929, in a tastefully decorated cell, with a desk, music and all the luxuries a crime boss could afford. You can see his restored cell on the prison tour.
..."

[–] icyharris-539-169904 11 years ago

Thanks everybody. Your explanations are as good as any. Interesting about the prison Al Capone was in.

[–] databyter 10 years ago

All through out this movie there were references to scripture and prophecy, and THOSE references spoke of certain numbers of certain angels with certain numbers of items etc..
And if you don't like that, it was Pitt and 11 co-consiprators who made up the army of the 12 monkeys. There are references and hints everywhere.

And yea, Dads money and power got Goines out. He even said "I wouldn't let myself believe it, but you really ARE crazy" at the end of the movie. Up to then he never gave up hope that his son was able to function normally under the right supervision.

Yes, institutions exist like that everywhere. And yes, I work with disabled people every day as well. It IS my job to transport and supervise their safe journeys to appointments and outings and I can tell you that although you are correct in saying that most have normal looking eyes, there are also those who because of defects or meds or trauma have a wild eye. It is not the norm, but it is quite common and unsurprising. I thought it gave Pitt a good prop to work with, that he expertly wove into a very believable manic lunatic.

Databyter