Terminator movie in disguise

There are main character similarities. Remember when Bruce tells the woman how nice it is in 199x compared to his underground future existence? I think the man in T1 tells Sarah Connor something similar.

The settings are quite different. Bruce is dropped into some carney madhouse where Arnold roams around regular old Americana.

Good points, and I know the intent isn't to suggest plagiarism, but... Terminator was a knock-off of prior ideas, most notably "Cyborg 2087", from 1966. And 12 Monkeys was the Hollywood remake of La Jetée, a French film from 1962. Both of those oldies are on YouTube.

That aside, I like the way this is going. Why not have some more 12M/Terminator comparisons!

I did my own, of 12M and Terry Gilliam's wonderful Brazil, which I'll re-post here because it dropped off the system:

From my observation, here are some of the interesting similarities between these two masterpieces.

The scripts were written 10 years apart, by different people, but the films shared the same director. It took me 20 minutes to think up this list, so there're probably a lot more. There are spoilers!

- recurring dream (Brazil, of Sam saving Jill, as escape from reality) and 12M (James Cole's airport dream, as haunting nightmare of reality)

- terrorists (Brazil, anti-paperwork rebels) and 12M (the 'Army of the 12 Monkeys' animal rights activists); both are metaphorical but basically red herrings to the real story

- going through x-ray security (Brazil, Mother's executive toy for Sam; 12M, Dr. Peters' biological samples)

- back to the executive toy in Brazil, in 12M there's Lt. Halperin's funny, sloshing 'great wave' time-wasting toy on his desk when he's questioning Dr. Railly

- obviously, the dystopic future led by technocrats, where "paper" rules (Brazil) and "technology" rules (12M), yet it's the dependency on paper and technology that's produced the horror

- the solitary hero believes that 'love will conquer all', with his dream girl from 'another place/time'

- the whole in-vehicle thing, a few scenes each, where the hero/heroine spend time in a vehicle riding to/escaping from somewhere, he "abducting" her but she doing all the driving

- at the beginning, both heroes in a 'cell': Brazil's Sam in his frustrating, dead-end job, and 12M's Cole in his actual cell as a prisoner

- both have an emphasis on consumerism to quell the masses; any "troublemakers" are dealt with by either "interrogation" or "locking them up in asylums"

- both films have background clips from 'other' movies/advertisements on throughout, representing 'escape' or sending 'messages'; in fact, T.V.'s and computer monitors are everywhere in both films, as interface between people and the reality of movies/commercials and information

- both have airplanes (or flying wings) that will 'take them away' to a nicer place: Brazil, safety, from the trolls, and 12M to Key West, but both are phony escapes

- The hero might just be getting away at the end, but doesn't

- The big 'escape' scenes at the end: In Brazil, Jill doesn't survive but Sam survives, in a vegetative state. In 12M, James doesn't survive but Kathryn survives to experience the nightmare to come

- Every form and process is numbered in Brazil, and every employee is numbered (Sam is DZ/015), and prisoner is numbered in 12M (Cole is 87645); in both, every human being is catalogued and processed like cattle

- both have a sort-of friend who ends up not being particularly helpful: Brazil, Sam has Jack; 12M, James has Jose. In both cases, Jack/Jose are "just following orders", though Jose is empathetic and Jack is not at all empathetic

- Transformations: Jill become Sam's mother in Brazil; in 12M Kathryn shifts from examiner to ally to lover but also undergoes a physical transformation in Cole's dreams and in reality. Sam/James, on the other hand, do not grow or transform.

- Both Sam and James "know" or "suspect the truth"; everybody else is a dolt; Sam has his "quest" to find Jill, and through her "freedom"; James has his "quest" to find "information about the virus", and through that finds Kathryn

- it's a stretch, but a "beetle" or flying bug "causes" Brazil to start its story, and in 12M Cole is picking beetles, bugs, eating spiders, etc.

- An opposite: In Brazil, the fake world (Sam's reality) is concrete and autocracy and the real world (beyond the roadway signs) is a wasteland and polluting power plants; in 12M the fake world (James' reality) is an underground prison (under a power plant) and the real world outside is a recovered natural wonderland (future) or modern life (past)

- needless to say, in both Sam's and James' real worlds are lots of conduits, tubes and pipes!

i think you are right - but I dont think the film is copying terminator.

I actuality they are both heavily borrowing themes and imagery from the same source.

John Conner (JC)
James Cole (JC)
equals Jesus!

Both have the prophesized mission of saving humanity from themselves.

Prophesy and religious iconography feature heavily in both films (judgement day, john conner's immaculate conception)

In 12 monkeys James Cole even wears a t-shirt saying Christ on it www.guidebites.com/wp-includes/images/25-03-2014%2015-55-25.jpg

Interesting observations. However the reason why Cole is sent back in time is not to `avoid future fate' but to locate the original strain of the virus (before it mutated) so scientists in his present time can then make a cure.

- Is your handwriting legible? -"Except at weekends.";

Interesting observations. However the reason why Cole is sent back in time is not to `avoid future fate' but to locate the original strain of the virus (before it mutated) so scientists in his present time can then make a cure.

- Is your handwriting legible? -"Except at weekends.";