MovieChat Forums > Twelve Monkeys (1996) Discussion > They DID try to change the past.

They DID try to change the past.

posted 10 years ago by the_scotster-1
14 replies | jump to latest

Ok I've got to start off with a confession, I'm a huge movie fan and I literally only JUST watched this flick for the first time. I thoroughly enjoyed it and even the "age" of the movie didn't detract from the fantastically intrinsic plot. Very solid movie indeed, with some very good, but somewhat overacted, performances.

Now, onto my point....

As soon as I finished the movie I jumped onto the boards to see what peoples opinions were and the ending slightly differs from my own. At the VERY end of the movie.....

The scientist is quoted as saying she is the insurance. To me this says that the future team did indeed try to change the future by killing the guy who kicked it all off. They were fairly sure it wasn't going to work, as they don't believe the timeline can be changed (something we witness throughout the movie) and therefore the scientist also went back in time as an insurance policy to make sure that if the virus outbreak still happens, they will have an original sample to cure the "future" population.

For me, this would be the most rounded ending for the movie. The conscience is clear as they tried to do the right thing, it couldn't/wouldn't happen so the next best solution was put into play.

[–] cassbtt 10 years ago

Change the future, yes. We're all allowed to do that.

..."age" of the movie didn't detract...

I know you may referring to the CGI and effects, but remember that this movie's present is 2025 (or 2035, as some speculate). It's not a "dated" movie till then!

Of course, the disaster was supposed to have happened in 1996, which was after the movie was produced in 1995. But almost all of what we saw in the story was "memory" or flashback. That's another very interesting thing about this movie. (And, can you change your memory? Nope.)

Links to "Twelve Monkeys" Pages
www.tempesta-tormenta.ca

[–] geearf 10 years ago

How can one change the future if one cannot change the past?
The future is only the past of the future's future...
And if everything will happen as it should (as we see in the movie with Cole witnessing his death as a kid), there is no changing anything...

So the only way this works, and that explains him seeing his death before, is that he never changed anything, he only did what he was meant to do.
He was meant to find who did it, and he was meant to die then, and that lady was meant to be on that plane... it just took some trials to get there... but those were meant to be as well.

[–] cassbtt 10 years ago

How can one change the future if one cannot change the past?

It might help (or boggle even more) to think about point of view (observation) ie. You're in somebody else's past, and they are in your future, but who can directly change the course of the other's actions?

This famous thought experiment can apply:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1tn56vWU_g

But, if the entire timeline is already imprinted, then it's all for naught, I suppose.

[–] taichai 10 years ago

And Cole tried to shoot the guy, even though he had said that the future can't be changed.

[–] howard_w13 10 years ago

I respectfully disagree. They did NOT try to change the past. Doing so would have led to unforseen events ultimately negating the future that Cole was sent from.

Do you think that it's mere coincidence that Cole was chosen for this mission? Remember the whole purpose of the mission was to obtain an unmutated sample of the virus (secured when the scientist from the future shook hands with the villain.) The future scientists knew EXACTLY how things were going to happen at the airport on that day. They may have even known that Cole's younger self would witness the event that would make him into the disturbed adult that he turned out to be (his older self being mortally wounded.)

Cole was little more than an unwitting expendable pawn in the mission.

--------
The movie has a plot hole?!?
EVERY FRIGGIN' MOVIE HAS A FRIGGIN' PLOT HOLE!!!!!

[–] nicying 10 years ago

I agree that they did not try to change the past.
What i concluded was the fact that for every single diseases and virus in the world, 1% population will be immune to each of it.

The people living in the future underground, were obviously that 1% who were immune. But i believe they needed the pure virus form to formulate a cure for future generations of their community who wouldn't be immune to it, and then be able to live above ground.

Also agree that Cole was not a random choice.

[–] artistathome 9 years ago

The simplest explanation is best.
The scientists of 2035 wanted the pure virus to create a vaccine so that they could go back to the surface protected by the vaccine!!

They wanted to live on top not underground anymore. And this was the only way.

Now, the virus was unleased by the scientist in the airport.
The scientists of the future saw everything and knew who had the suitcase due to Cole's message.
So they were watching.

Cole had told Katherine that he came back for the pure form of the virus. That was they only way they could make the vaccine.

The lady from the future was going to kill the scientist and take the suitcase back to 2035.
Everyone who died in 96 would still die, but the vaccine they made would protect future generations.

Since they could not change the past all they could do was change their present. by making the vaccine.

[–] filmmekker 9 years ago

If she was going to kill the scientist then that would mean no out break in Europe and Asia, which would mean she never would have been sent back. Or the future she came from would be gone or changed. And if she was on the plane and got samples, wouldn't that mean she was always on it?

Open the door for Mr. Muckle!!

[–] greg-233 9 years ago

"And if she was on the plane and got samples, wouldn't that mean she was always on it?"

Yes, she was always on it. That's what I'd assumed, anyway.

[–] jdcdsv 9 years ago

She didn't need to kill anyone to get the virus. She got it when she shook hands with him as he had already released the virus by that point. She goes back to the future with the virus she has contracted and the doomsday scientist continues along on his journey without ever realizing who she was. And yes she was always on that plane.

[–] cassbtt 9 years ago

"Shaking hands" wouldn't likely have been enough. She could have stolen one of his vials during the flight when he got up to go to the can. There's so much we don't see.

My old 12 Monkeys links page:
http://www.stevegarry.ca/tempesta-tormenta

[–] WandererFromYs (2315) a year ago

Earlier in the movie James lays out exactly what their plan is.

I just have to locate the virus in its
original form before it mutates. So
scientists can come back and study it
and find a cure. So that those of us
who survived can go back to the surface
of the earth.

Showing the scientist on the plane just shows that Cole was successful in his mission, so now humanity should be able to find a cure and return to the surface.

[–] Ace_Spade (9547) a year ago

That's good; I like that ending more than a purely depressing one.

[–] avortac4 (3744) a year ago

Nothing any time traveler did in the past, actually changed the future at all.

They basically made sure the future would happen exactly as it did. It was too late to prevent anything, after the virus was already airborn. Killing the guy would not change anything after that happened.

The only thing they did was to gather data, samples, evidence, etc., so the future people can piece together what actually happened, so they can THEN try to create cures and immune system boosts and whatever they have to, to cope with the situation better and perhaps elevate humanity back to the surface eventually.

It's very simple.

Also, you ABSOLUTELY can change the future without changing the past. Future hasn't happened yet, so you have free reign to make any decisions about it. Past already happened, so you don't have access to changing it. I don't get what's difficult about this, it's all logical and simple.

Of course with time travel, you should be able to change the past, or it's basically just watching reality as a movie. However, in this movie's Universe, you can't change the present/future BY changing the past, you can only change the future the same way we normally would anyway - by making decisions in the present.

This movie utilizes the predestination paradox, and does it pretty darn well.

It's just sad that this is the only way writers can create even semi-plausible time-travel story that makes even some sense.

Everything considered, this movie makes a surprising amount of sense.