MovieChat Forums > Twelve Monkeys (1996) Discussion > The two voiceemail msgs

The two voiceemail msgs

posted 9 years ago by cassbtt
5 replies | jump to latest

Can't tell you how many times I've seen this movie, and I thought I had resolved everything to my satisfaction.

But all of a sudden, one thing about the two voicemails (Railly's from the public phone on the street, and Cole's from the airport) bugs me:

We presume both messages (and who knows what other messages from other time travelers) already exist in the future (the scientists' present). The messages can't NOT BE there, and then suddenly BE there.

(Supposedly, the scientists' excuse for not acting on them is that the messages were messy and took a long time to reconstruct.)

First let's look at two possible scenarios for how this system was implemented: One, it could be that they sent a traveler back to set it up, or two, they've figured out the pass code to hack into an existing system (for a carpet cleaning company). There may be other scenarios, or a mix of the two.

But if the system comes about as a result of the first approach, then this is a funny case of initiating a time travel mission to do something in the past in order to create something that already exists in the future. That is, they already have the messages and thus know they have to do something in the past to "make them happen"... sort of like the 'past' telling them what to do 'today'.

But that's not even what's bugging me right now:

If the messages recorded in the past are there in the future (the scientists' present), no matter the condition of the messages, then wouldn't it be logical - maybe even before they send travelers back - that they'd first decode/reconstruct all of the messages, especially starting with the last one they have? That one would probably be the message with the most relevant and accurate info.

I guess this may be hard to do if, as I surmised above in scenario #2, that they're just hacking into an existing voicemail system and have to weed through a lot of carpet cleaning messages... but then, wouldn't the "carpet
cleaning" company have zapped all their messages, even in a time of an impending apocalypse, post-December 27, 1996, which is when the first case of the virus showed up?

You see where I'm going with this?

Watching the film again, last night, I noticed how all the time travelers at the airport, who were there expressly as a result of Cole's message, were well-dressed, organized, clean-cut, and rather 'with it' - they weren't all confused like Cole was. Those missions obviously were launched well after Cole's, when they had the time travel working pretty well.

(I've surmised before that overall there were likely dozens or hundreds of missions that we just never see in the movie. We only catch some of the early ones, by Cole and Jose, and some of the later ones - including Jose's at the airport and quite possibly the scientists' final one, that of the female Astrophysicist character meeting the virus man on the jet.)

So my boggle this evening is about how they did or didn't act upon the messages in a very orderly fashion.

Since so much of the rest of this story is so darned perfect, this comes across a bit 'convenient' so that the story could turn out as it does. Sort of like that quite outrageous flashbulb camera photo in the WWI trenches of France that ends up in Railly's book.

There's been a lot of discussion about how the scientists knew Cole's fate, and even designed his trips to fit right into it. This, even though they "seemed" to express surprise at the results of his mission, when he told them what happened.

To me, the movie is still a 10/10, but I think it's inevitable that it may drift into being an ounce too cute when it brings stuff in like this in order to provide some artistic tension.

My old 12 Monkeys links page:
http://www.catconsulting.ca/tempesta-tormenta

[–] the_notorious_bid 9 years ago

I haven't viewed the film in a while but my recollection is that the scientists didn't have perfect knowledge of anything related to The Army Of The Twelve Monkeys. So, since, to the scientists, these were all red herrings (anyway), they were, essentially, grasping at straws when researching ANYTHING related to The Army Of The Twelve Monkeys.

If I recall correctly, the second voicemail informs them, in a cryptic manner, that it's NOT The Army Of The Twelve Monkeys which causes the virus. So, this is what Cole is supposed to be researching...

[–] makaveli-thedon-killumin 8 years ago

In my opinion you are overthinking it.
The writers were just lazy.

[–] debiler 8 years ago

One thing about the voicemail messages: I figured that the scientists must have found the physical answering machine device and the tape in it quite recently on one of their trips to the surface. The tape hadn't been erased, so that's lucky but not impossible. Also, if the tape had been wiped back in 1996, they wouldn't have used it in the future. So they knew all they had to do was find a voicemail recorder with an intact audio tape and to find out the phone number for that device. The messages from their agents in the past would be on the tape, because they were instructed to leave their recordings there. It's so clever, I love it.

___________________________________
I didn't like the Godfather, so what?

[–] cassbtt 8 years ago

Yep, it's a case of events in the past aiding the future in deciding what to do, yet it's still the future that decided "what" to (try to) do.

It's a paradox I've used a few times in my own writing of time travel stories.

[–] WandererFromYs (2403) 3 years ago

The messages are a predestination paradox. The fact that they exist means that Cole had to get sent back to record them. They couldn’t use the knowledge from that message to prevent Cole from going back, or he wouldn’t have recorded it, and it would erase the reason they had for not sending him.