MovieChat Forums > Screamers (1996) Discussion > Yeah wait, what was that again?

Yeah wait, what was that again?

posted 16 years ago by Kuato_and_George
26 replies | jump to latest

Just rented ot pm demand tonight (for free). I'm trying to watch some sci fi/horror flicks being it is the time of year it is.

It wasn't bad at all for waht it was.

But things didn't make sense. First of all Peter Weller was on the miners side? Say what? Until i just read on wikipedia, I figured Weller's side was the corporation (N.E.B) because they were 10 times moer advanced, organized, even had their own drop ships.

How the F does the rebel group, "The Alliance" (essentially the underdogs) have it's own resources to the extent they do, but the N.E.B. soldiers live in a cave (essentially)? Plus they live directly above where the screamers are created? If the Alliance created the screamers, why the F are the N.E.B. stationed in the same warehouse?

How many types are there?

Type 1, best i can figure is the round ball one's. The one's that go underground.

Type 1 revised is the reptile looking thing.

Type 2 is the "injured solider" which we never see.

Type 3 is the kid.

Beker, Chuck and Jessica are what, type 4's?

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

Type 1, best i can figure is the round ball one's. The one's that go underground.
Type 1 revised is the reptile looking thing.
Type 2 is the "injured solider" which we never see.
Type 3 is the kid.
Beker, Chuck and Jessica are what, type 4's?

Almost.

Type 1 is the kind we see at the beginning of the film; Type 1 Revised is both the one that attacks Jefferson as he's being rescued from the crashed transport (as indicated by the back of its tag) and the crawly one with legs (as shown by Hendricksson's statement that he pulled a tag off "the reptile" and learned it was a Type 1; apparently there's more than one variant); Type 2 is the wounded soldier (and we do see one: Becker); Type 3 is David Edward Dearing; and Types 4 and 5 are probably Jessica Hanson and (maybe) the teddy bear. (And if I recall correctly, the one wearing Chuck's face at the end appears to be of the same type as Becker, so he's a Type 2 as well.)

(A common question here is why the types don't seem to go in strict upgrade order. Well, the fact is that we don't know that they don't; we don't know what capabilities each type has. But at any rate there's no reason that they need to; the order may just be chronological. If the Screamers next develop a robot that imitates one of those rock bugs, it will be a Type 6 even if it's not as capable as previous Types.)

As for your other questions, bear in mind that when mining started on Sirius 6B, everybody was on the same side ("We were all NEBs once") so all the important facilities would naturally be located near NEB headquarters. And that underground facility we see isn't necessarily where the first Screamers were built; it's simply been taken over by Screamers, who are also the ones who built that ship that crashes near the beginning of the film.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] J_Weezy 16 years ago

Yes, "The first Screamers were sent to us by an Alliance development team on earth, five years ago."

When Sisrius 6B was first colonized, everything was peaceful. Joe Hendricksson, Jessica Hanson, Secretary Green, everyone, was a NEB. Did you listen when Hendricksson was telling the backstory to Jefferson?

The Alliance wasn't formed until the scientists and miners on Sirius 6B shut down the mines from all the leaking radiation. The NEBs didn't want to halt production so they sent an ultimatum to the miners there. After four years of non-compliance, the NEB corporation bombed the every living S out of Sirius 6B. Then, all civilian installations still under NEB control were turned into command posts and bunkers. And the Alliance, led by Joe Hendricksson claimed their own CP and bunkers.

For the next five years, there was open war between the two factions, while a Cold War of sorts spawned on Earth from the two sides. The Alliance sent in the Screamers to help out their troops on Sirius 6B. The Screamers were sub-terranean and self-replicating killing machines. They didn't discriminate among their targets. Anything living was prey.

The NEBs, consisting of Jessica, Becker and Ross, two of which were advanced Screamers, survived because they locked the Screamers underground. NEBs don't have the TAB devices so they were thoroughly routed by the Screamers.

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[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

"The first Screamers were sent to us by an Alliance development team on earth, five years ago."

Aha, thank you. I thought there was a reference of this sort in the film but I couldn't recall it.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] Kuato_and_George 16 years ago

"Type 1 is the kind we see at the beginning of the film; Type 1 Revised is both the one that attacks Jefferson as he's being rescued from the crashed transport (as indicated by the back of its tag) and the crawly one with legs (as shown by Hendricksson's statement that he pulled a tag off "the reptile" and learned it was a Type 1; apparently there's more than one variant); Type 2 is the wounded soldier (and we do see one: Becker); Type 3 is David Edward Dearing; and Types 4 and 5 are probably Jessica Hanson and (maybe) the teddy bear. (And if I recall correctly, the one wearing Chuck's face at the end appears to be of the same type as Becker, so he's a Type 2 as well.)"

In one breath you tell me we never see a type 2. I can agree with that as it makes it sound like type 2's were kind of like David. Could only say and do a certain amount of things within their original programming.

But then you say Becker and Chuck are type 2's? They seem to be equally as sentient as Jessica. So they are 2's how again?

All the rest I have no trouble accepting.

"As for your other questions, bear in mind that when mining started on Sirius 6B, everybody was on the same side ("We were all NEBs once") so all the important facilities would naturally be located near NEB headquarters. And that underground facility we see isn't necessarily where the first Screamers were built; it's simply been taken over by Screamers, who are also the ones who built that ship that crashes near the beginning of the film."

They were all N.E.B, no problems there I can grasp that. What I don't grasp is why the Alliance (the outcasts essentially) are seemingly more advanced and equipped than the N.E.B. remnants.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

In one breath you tell me we never see a type 2.

I don't remember ever saying that we don't see a Type 2. I said that we do see one: Becker. If I said otherwise, I misspoke. (Well, miswrote. )

They seem to be equally as sentient as Jessica. So they are 2's how again?

I addressed this briefly in my parenthetical comment. There's no reason to assume that the order of the "Types" has to do solely with increased capabilities (or "sentience"). They're just different models and the numbering could be simply chronological. (Of course we'd expect a general trend toward greater capabilities, but there's no reason to expect that to be followed strictly. Besides, for all we know Becker is an evolved "Type 2 Revised" rather than an original "Type 2.")

However, we do learn during the film that the Jessica Hanson model can do several things that other models couldn't do . . . (Not only can she have sex, she can learn to love.)

What I don't grasp is why the Alliance (the outcasts essentially) are seemingly more advanced and equipped than the N.E.B. remnants.

The NEB remnants are exactly that: remnants. The Screamers (originally developed on Earth, and evolving on their own ever since the Alliance deployed them on Sirius 6B) have wiped out the NEBs. (The only actual NEB we see is Ross, and he's dead before the movie is over. Becker and Jessica turn out to be Screamers.)

I imagine if you check the inside of the Alliance compound after the horde of David Edward Dearings is done with it, it will look pretty torn up too. And the underground portion of the NEB HQ does look fairly high tech. I wouldn't say it's less advanced or worse equipped than the Alliance compound, just devastated by Screamers.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] Kuato_and_George 16 years ago

"I don't remember ever saying that we don't see a Type 2. I said that we do see one: Becker. If I said otherwise, I misspoke. (Well, miswrote. )"

You said this: "Type 2 is the "injured solider" which we never see."

This gives me the impression type 2's are similar to David. They have one real main objective. Act hurt/helpless to lure people in. Then kill em. But have little to other capabilities (like David). But are simply different models, 1 being an injured solider, 1 a helpless child.

I said they can't be type 2's because they prove to have more capabilities than what a type 2 is said to have. That make sense?

Yes they could be a type 2 revised. I agree on that. It's simply confusing because we're not told type 2 revised even exist.

"The NEB remnants are exactly that: remnants. The Screamers (originally developed on Earth, and evolving on their own ever since the Alliance deployed them on Sirius 6B) have wiped out the NEBs. (The only actual NEB we see is Ross, and he's dead before the movie is over. Becker and Jessica turn out to be Screamers.)"

I am not making myself clear enough or you are not gettin gme. What you said above, I get that. I get all of it. No problem.

What I am saying is that the "underdogs" being the one's who deployed an advanced weapon makes no sense. It'd be like the Resistance (the humans from the Terminator series) inventing Terminators.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

You said this: "Type 2 is the "injured solider" which we never see."

No, I didn't. You said that in your first post and I quoted you in my reply. What I said is that we do see one: Becker.

I said they can't be type 2's because they prove to have more capabilities than what a type 2 is said to have. That make sense?

Yes, it explains what you mean. But the movie doesn't say (or, I think, imply) that all a Type 2 can do is lie on the ground pretending to be wounded. And Becker pretty clearly shows us that he's supposed to be a Type 2 -- when the subject first comes up he mutters "Help me" by way of illustration, and then later does the wounded-soldier routine himself, right up to a wry repetition of the "Help me" when Jefferson is looking down at his face.

(It's possible that you're right and he's not a Type 2 at all -- when Hendricksson pulls Becker's tag out, he can't read it, so maybe he's a newer and more advanced/evolved model. But I think it makes better sense to regard him as an advanced/evolved Type 2. If he's not, well, nothing else depends on it.)

What I am saying is that the "underdogs" being the one's who deployed an advanced weapon makes no sense. It'd be like the Resistance (the humans from the Terminator series) inventing Terminators.

Ah, I see what you're getting at, then. Well, I don't think the Alliance are "underdogs" in that sense. There's nothing to indicate that they're not technologically advanced. They're scientists and people in the mining industry, after all. And actually, since the first Screamers travel underground, it makes pretty good sense (as these things go) that they'd be invented by people who develop mining technology. (I mean on Earth. The Screamers weren't developed on Sirius 6B; remember Hendricksson's remark that the initial designs were sent to them from Earth five years back. And the later versions are the result of the Screamers' own evolution/development.)

The situation isn't parallel to that in the Terminator movies. The NEB isn't like Skynet, taking over the world and being stopped only by a ragtag band of hardy low-tech rebels; it's just one of two factions involved in a cold war on Earth over the mining of berynium on Sirius 6B. And the faction on the other side is technologically advanced; if it weren't, there wouldn't be much of a cold war.

(By the way, I was mistaken when I said Ross is the only NEB we see. There's also that NEB soldier at the beginning of the movie who brings the message to the Alliance bunker. And of course the Beckerbot says he's wearing Richard Cooper's face, so I guess in a way we see him . . . )

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] mairhart 16 years ago

The identity of Becker / Chuck / Richard Cooper is a complicated issue, at best.

1. The old Chuck in the Alliance compound had to have been killed by screamers some time before Becker was killed. Remember, Chuck chose to allow the Type 3 Davids into the compound and, even if he were kept alive by screamers, he could not reasonably have survived the mini-nuke. Becker was not killed until the morning after the compound was nuked, so the Becker screamer could not have ripped the face off old Chuck. Another screamer would have donned Chuck's face and left the compound sometime before the nuke and before Becker died.

2. Becker's body was thoroughly wrecked -- and his chip removed by Hendricksson -- at the Alliance compound, before Hendricksson encountered the impostor Chuck at the secret EEV facility. So again, it is unlikely that the Becker screamer unit somehow rebuilt itself and became the impostor Chuck. They were separate hardware with access to some common memories.

3. At the EEV facility, the impostor Chuck reminded Hendricksson of the bar on Point Reyes -- a bar that Hendricksson had previously reminded old Chuck about, near the beginning of the movie, just before Hendricksson and Jefferson left the Alliance compound in search of Richard Cooper.

4. Again at the EEV facility, the impostor Chuck spoke as both "I" and "we" when he told Hendricksson about screamers (presumably of the same Type) ripping the faces off old Chuck and Richard Cooper.

In order to maintain consistency in the plot, it seems necessary for separate advanced-model screamers to have stolen the faces of Chuck and Cooper, because Becker's de-chipped, electrocuted, and dismembered shell could not become the impostor Chuck, and because old Chuck must have been killed well before Becker.

In fact, it also seems necessary for Chuck to have been an impostor for some time before the movie began. The imposter acted as Hendricksson's buddy, learned about the bar at Point Reyes, waited until Hendricksson was gone and then allowed the Type 3 Davids to enter the Alliance compound. Similarly, the impostor Cooper allowed the Type 3s to enter the NEB command center.

If these suggestions are not true, then we are faced with some extremely unlikely scenarios: The impostor Chuck knows minor details that he could not reasonably know about Hendricksson -- and Becker somehow rebuilt himself, got his chip back, found Chuck unharmed among the incinerated bodies in the nuked compound, stole Chuck's face, and traveled to the EEV shuttle facility -- all much faster than Hendricksson and Jessica got to facility.

Another, more likely possibility: The plot is simply inconsistent as to the identities of Becker, Chuck, and Cooper.

[–] Kuato_and_George 16 years ago

"The identity of Becker / Chuck / Richard Cooper is a complicated issue, at best."

I agree with you.

Spliff_The_Cimmerian, I don't have issue with saying they are type 2 revised, it's just simply a little confusing being that its never actually stated type 2 revised exists.

"Another, more likely possibility: The plot is simply inconsistent as to the identities of Becker, Chuck, and Cooper."

More than likely a plot hole, agreed. But Spliff_The_Cimmerian's explanation of them possibly being type 2 revised is a valid attempt imo to cover it up.

[–] J_Weezy 16 years ago

Here's my take:

The mini-pluto, IMO, couldn't have wiped out the whole bunker. I mean, when NEBs first nuked the planet some years prior, everything was largely intact (probably only the bunkers).

My assessment is that the Screamer collective communicates with itself. I don't believe that there is one central "Screamer AI" controlling the actions of all, because the Screamers themselves, at least the advanced ones capable of mimmickery and intelligent thinking (self-aware), seem to be out for their own survival--only temporarily forming alliances based on mutual benefit. This was the case in the NEB bunker where Becker and Jessica banded together, until the remaining events unfolded.

So, having established my theory that Screamers communicate with one another, we can assume that they are able to communicate over vast distance with internal radios--they are, after all, machines.

So the Davids let in by Chuck (a genuine human being) killed him, assumed his identity and broadcasted his "biometrics" to the Screamer community. You see, it seems that Davids are "dumb" compared to those like Jessica and even Becker. The David army was sent in to the Alliance HQ and got the real humans' "data". Since Vader pointed out that Becker was totally FUBAR and that he couldn't possibly have followed Joe to the EEV facility, which I fully agree with, it is safe to assume that another Screamer unit attained the info on Chuck and followed Joe/Jessica.

And there was continuity between Becker's memories and the new Screamer that assumed the look of Chuck.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

That all makes sense for the most part, but it doesn't address mairhart's point that the Chuckbot at the end has memories that it shouldn't have (about Point Reyes).

I think mairhart is right that Chuck must have been replaced by a Screamer before the beginning of the movie, just as Richard Cooper had apparently been. Unless the Screamers can acquire memories not just from each other but also from the brains/minds of human beings (and the movie doesn't hint at any such possibility in any other scene), Hendricksson must have been talking to the Chuckbot at the beginning of the movie.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] J_Weezy 16 years ago

Spliff, I think that Chuck is real in the beginning. Because if Screamers had in fact infiltrated Alliance HQ, wouldn't there be nothing left of it? Wouldn't Hendricksson be dead? Because it's not as if there are whole lot more people left on Sirius 6B other than the people who are already confined to the bunkers--on both sides. But maybe it was all just one grand scheme to get a Screamer on the EEV, to then conquer Earth.

But I think it's safe to assume that Screamers, by this point, are on a runaway path of evolution. They can form complex machinery out of themselves, mimmick humanity, bleed, drink, talk, tap into a human's brain, and by the end of the movie, achieve genuine feelings. I am going to stick to my guns that Chuck--in the beginning--was a real human.

Also, let's not forget how advanced the Screamers are. Knowing this, it is possible that basic Screamers waiting just under the surface of the courtyard outside Alliance HQ were "listening in" on Joe & Chuck's conversation about Point Reyes. Furthermore, the Screamers seemed to track Joe & Jefferson as they trekked towards NEB HQ. Knowing this, it is possible that the Screamers heard every radio transmission as well from Joe back to HQ. This could explain why the Chuck/Becker Screamer in the end knew so much about Joe.

Either theory is plausible, though. So yeah, good discussion. I think we may have reached all possibilities on this one.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

Spliff, I think that Chuck is real in the beginning. Because if Screamers had in fact infiltrated Alliance HQ, wouldn't there be nothing left of it? Wouldn't Hendricksson be dead?

Not if the Screamers are trying to find a way off the planet that will get them to Earth without suspicion. If, for example, they knew that there was an escape pod in a secure facility coded to the biosignature of the Alliance commander, they'd want Hendricksson alive. And they'd try to manipulate events so that Hendricksson would go there and activate it for them, and then make sure they had all the clearances they needed from the Alliance in order to approach Earth.

Also, let's not forget how advanced the Screamers are. Knowing this, it is possible that basic Screamers waiting just under the surface of the courtyard outside Alliance HQ were "listening in" on Joe & Chuck's conversation about Point Reyes.

That's an interesting possibility, and you're right that it's also plausible. As with so much else (in this movie and in The Thing), the answer seems to me to be Maybe, but we don't know for sure.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

Spliff_The_Cimmerian, I don't have issue with saying they are type 2 revised, it's just simply a little confusing being that its never actually stated type 2 revised exists.

I agree. And that may not be what they are anyway. It's pretty clearly established that the Screamers are evolving on their own; for all we know, the Beckerbot's tag could read "Type 5, "Type 10," or "Type 100" in that language Hendricksson has never seen before.

The only reason I like thinking the Beckerbot is a Type 2 is that he does the wounded-soldier "help me" routine near the end of the movie; it just smells like a hint from the writers that Becker's been one all along (although perhaps an evolved/advanced one). But that could just as easily be the Beckerbot's way of deliberately mocking Jefferson.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] Kuato_and_George 16 years ago

"The only reason I like thinking the Beckerbot is a Type 2 is that he does the wounded-soldier "help me" routine near the end of the movie; it just smells like a hint from the writers that Becker's been one all along (although perhaps an evolved/advanced one)."

Completely agree. It's like he simply used his "old trick" (the thing he was originally programmed with. Because that's what a machine would do.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

Well, this has certainly been one of the more interesting and profitable discussions I've had on these boards. (And it's also interesting that it's taken place on a board that's not generally very active -- I think there have been more posts in these two or three threads in the last few days than in the whole previous five or six months combined. )

Cool movie, at any rate, and I'm glad to see there are other people enjoying it. I tested a new DVD player by watching it last night (after a few years with the VHS version and then a few more years with the full-screen Region 1 DVD, I finally picked up the Region 2/PAL widescreen version, and I wanted to make sure the multiregion hack had worked properly). It just reconfirmed that I can watch this movie anytime, anywhere, and have a good time.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] Kuato_and_George 16 years ago

Yeah, agreed. I've enjoyed the conversation.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

And let me just add that a few days ago I picked up a 42" widescreen plasma TV (720p), and this movie looks great on it. My HDMI cable hasn't even arrived yet (Amazon sells them for a dollar and a half plus shipping, so of course I didn't buy one at the store) so I'm watching it at 480p without upconversion, and it's still like seeing the thing for the first time. Bloody gorgeous. Duguay and his crew did a wonderful job putting us on Sirius 6B.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] J_Weezy 16 years ago

I watched it the other day on my 1080p desktop monitor. You're in for a treat, Spliff. It is nice for 1995.

I'm sure others have noted this, but the special effects, at times, were shoddy. But the story is what really interested me. The acting too. Acting was top-notch and perhpas one of the most overlooked qualities in this otherwise underground movie.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

You're in for a treat, Spliff.

You're right about that. I got the cable a couple of days ago and I've rewatched this, and the change just from 480p to 720p is amazing. Yeah, the special effects are spotty but the acting (particularly Weller) and the haunting, desolate Sirius 6B landscape completely sell it to me.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] J_Weezy 16 years ago

Great movie. I actually feel cool owning it, where as most people haven't even heard of this movie.

BTW, I have the MP3, "Hard Luck Solution". Actually, not the whole track. I'm trying to get Jerry, the guitarist for that song, to give me the full version. :)

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

Heh, that's excellent. I looked for an mp3 of it once and couldn't find it anywhere.

By the way -- I found out from someone on these boards a while back that the Region 2 version of this movie is anamorphic widescreen. I bought a used copy through Amazon.co.uk, and it's great. Just thought you might like to know in case you're in Region 1 and watching the full-screen US release.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] J_Weezy 16 years ago

I wish I knew what that was. What is anamorphic widescreen?

Would it be beneficial to buy that version if I have a 16:10 monitor?

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

The US release is in pan-and-scan full screen, which means that the original 16:9 widescreen version has been cut to fit a 4:3 screen. (I just checked and found that IMDb gives the movie's aspect ratio as 1.37:1, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong. I'll have to compare the two and confirm, but I'm almost positive the widescreen version has more visual information than the full-screen.[*])

"Anamorphic" essentially means that if you play the DVD on a widescreen TV, the image will automatically spread wide enough to fill the entire screen rather than appear in a black box in the middle at a lower resolution (which you can zoom in on to make it fill the screen).

If you see black bars on the sides when you watch in on your monitor, then you can fill those bars with the missing parts of the image by watching the Region 2 version instead. But there's a catch.

Most DVD players have a hack you can use to make them multiregion (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks/). But computers and DVD software are different.

Your DVD drive is probably set to allow you to change the region code only a certain number of times (typically 5) before it locks forever. You can get free software to flash the drive and make it multiregion, or to reset its counter to zero at restart so that you can change the region code as often as you like. But that's only part of the issue: your operating system and/or your DVD software may still limit your ability to play other-region DVDs even if you've flashed your drive.

So basically, if you're watching on a computer, then unless you're pretty sure you can make it multiregion (or you have software that will copy a DVD and allow you to change its region code as you do so), it's probably not worth bothering to get a Region 2 DVD.

Of course if you have a DVD player, then you can just look up your multiregion hack and go from there. In that case the Region 2 widescreen version is worth having just because it's widescreen.

[*] And I may be wrong about that. I just spot-checked a couple of screen images on the two DVDs, and it looks as though the full-screen version contains a bit more of the image vertically and a bit less horizontally. (I can't tell how much of this is due to the NTSC vs. PAL formatting, but in principle it should be none.)

It's not unusual for a movie to be shot in 4:3 and then edited to 16:9 for theatrical release, and in such cases, a full-screen DVD release sometimes uses the original 4:3 footage. Maybe that's what happened here. If so, it's still the case that the 16:9 version is what the filmmakers intended us to see, so personally, I still prefer the widescreen version in those cases.

Anybody else have better information?

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] J_Weezy 16 years ago

I have region 1 Screamers DVD, but the picture fills the entire monitor, which is 16:10 running @ 1900x1200. Maybe the monitor upconverts or the video card does too?

IDK, but it looks amazing.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

Maybe the monitor upconverts or the video card does too?

Hmm, I don't know why upconversion would affect the aspect ratio -- which, on the Region 1 DVD, should be 4:3. If your picture doesn't look stretched out and your monitor's not 4:3, I don't know what the hell it's doing.

But whatever is happening, as long as it looks amazing, you probably wouldn't get any additional benefit from the Region 2 version. Based on what I found earlier today, and assuming I'm interpreting it correctly, the main benefit of the Region 2 release would be to give you the version the director wanted you to see. And I'm not even certain of that since IMDb says the theatrical release had a 1.37:1 aspect ratio.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.