Becker (spoilers) - Screamers (1996) Discussion

[–] Schmendrick 18 years ago

This is the way I understood it: the Type 2's were originally based on some soldier, not necessarily anybody in the group. "Becker" was actually a highly advanced model, way beyond the "wounded soldier" and "child" models, since the latter 2 were basically dumb killing machines, whereas "Becker" was actually sentient. "Becker" just used the "wounded soldier" trick as bait. And "Becker"'s face was the face of the NEB commander. I'm not so sure about Hendricksson's friend, he implied he was the same robot, but how did the robot survive? Or was it a collective intelligence? Questions, questions!

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[–] bannedpeanut 18 years ago

"he implied he was the same robot, but how did the robot survive? Or was it a collective intelligence?"

Since the little ones drag things under ground for parts, i would assume he was dragged under and put back together. And they slapped the other dudes face on him.

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[–] darknova001-1 18 years ago

No the way I see it is, well the Becker robot was all shot to *beep* but I figure the robot made to look like his freind is the same model of robot as the becker robot just a different one. Kinna like the jessica hanson robot.

NOVA

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[–] darksoul01 18 years ago

Uh actally the teddy bear was the type 2, more then likely they use it so someone unwittently picks it up takes it with him just like the commander did and when it gets to some place new it takes control of some computer and uploads itself so it can find some place to grow a new army.

Remember at the end the teddy bear moves when hes heading back to earth, That's why this movie needs a second one the teddy bear is bascially a trojan horse.

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[–] Schmendrick 18 years ago

"Uh actally the teddy bear was the type 2"

Uh, no the teddy bear was a ringer, a screamer nobody knew about (including the audience, of course).

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[–] Schmendrick 18 years ago

*shrug* best explanation I've seen so far.

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[–] bashetunmaj 18 years ago

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[–] optims129 17 years ago

becker and jessica were type 4 and type 5 models repectively but both have collective intelligence what one learns the others learn all memories are shared... so when becker spoke out his ass before gettig blown to *beep* his CPU was connected to the mobile sword network so basicly when that becker died his link was severed.... but the other robots already had enough info to go on and since the NEB commander was killed they scavenged his body as well to make a new unit which is how they infiltrated the command base of the NEB mean while over on the alliance base the type 3 kids got in cause recon teams found the kid/kids and brought him or them back and when they realised truth they were already too late. while the NEB base got hit with every variation of screamer from the stage 1 sand crab buzzsaw to the stage 5 soldier.. but what got them was the type 2 wounded soldier who kept screaming for help.. once they were in the NEB bunker and were given help they then opened the doors allowed the other units in... and when the command tried to seal it self off in the command base they sent out recon teams ( to find food suplies check on various things)they were killed replaced by the type 4 and then those guys checked in inside the command base with their reports they destroyed the command base from the inside out...

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[–] omnius-1 16 years ago

The way I see it is that Becker is a Type 2, The Teddy Bear a Type 4, and Jessica a Type 5. The guy who attacked Hendrickson near the shuttle is merely another Type 2, just with a different face. The reason he says the same things as Becker is probably because all Type 2's have this in their vocabulary, and obviously have an affinity towards saying it.

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[–] mairhart 16 years ago

Timing does not permit Becker and the impostor Chuck to be the same exact screamer units.

The human Chuck was killed by screamers some time before the Alliance facility was nuked by Hendricksson, and certainly before Becker was killed.

Also, it's likely that we never saw the human Chuck anywhere in the movie, because at the EEV facility, the impostor Chuck reminded Hendricksson of "the bar at Point Reyes," which Hendricksson had mentioned to the supposedly human Chuck before Hendricksson and Jefferson began their journey to the NEB facility. In other words, Chuck was an impostor near the beginning of the movie. How else could the new Chuck have the old Chuck's memories?

It's likely that Becker and Chuck were separate impostor screamers from the start. Chuck and Becker both infiltrated their respective compounds, pretending to be (respectively) the Alliance second-in-command and the NEB commander. They both allowed Type 3 Davids to enter their compounds. Becker was killed by Hendricksson after the mini-nuke attack, while "Chuck" survived the Type 3 David invasion of the Alliance compound because he was the screamer who let them in.

"Chuck" likely proceeded to the EEV facility before Hendricksson returned to the compound. This would explain why Hendricksson only heard playbacks of old transmissions when he tried to contact Chuck upon his return: "Chuck" wasn't there to provide intelligent responses to Hendricksson's requests.

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[–] birdsoulhouse 12 years ago

"It's likely that Becker and Chuck were separate impostor screamers from the start."

I like this proposal, but it doesn't explain Chuck's falling for the "Let me speak to Don Giovanni" trick.

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[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bbanzai88 17 years ago

The way I saw it was that Becker/Jessica/Chuck were variations on a more advanced Type - probably Type 4? They'd be something akin to revisions, Type 4A, 4B and 4C. They were essentially infilitrator models made to look and act like humans (and in at least two cases seemingly made with the faces of killed humans).

I thought the Teddy Bear was Type 2. Keep in mind the information Hendricksson receives on the Type 2 model is from Becker - a screamer himself. So the information can be assumed to be invalid. Becker is most likely referring to himself when he tells Hendricksson about the "wounded soldier" model. It's like he's taunting Hendricksson with the knowledge of how he will kill him. This would fit his personality.

Becker would obviously not want to truly disclose any information on models that humans haven't seen yet as this would make them obsolete the first time they are seen. Had Becker told Hendricksson the Teddy Bear was the Type 2, Becker would have tossed it out the moment he spotted it.

It seems unlikely the Chuck model would lie when it thinks it has Hendricksson. He's gloating. So I would assume Becker's face came from the NEB Commander, as he claimed, although you'd think the NEB Commander would be roughly the same age as Hendricksson.

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[–] edandibeth 17 years ago

I think that would be a good explanation, especially since earlier in the movie Jessica seemed really reluctant to let on what the Type 2 model was when Becker explained it was the wounded soldier. There seemed to be a moment where Jessica looked at Becker as he explained what the Type 2 was, questioning at first then indifferent afterwards. Personally at the end of the movie a lot of the subplots dont line up from the beginning of the movie. Kinda like why Becker and Jessica were hiding out together with Ross I think his name was. Why not kill him and allow the Kid to go with Hendrikson? They would have infiltrated the same way.

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[–] rick-deckard45 17 years ago

a few things to remember: the screamers knew where the alliance base was, and since chuck sends a radio message about getting a "weird new arrival" when they camp with the david robot, then they've just started sending them screamers that look like people. it's unlikely that screamers would leave the alliance alone for so long but go after the NEB, so both probably happened at the same time.

plus, they could have known about the unlucky NEB guy sent out with that message. then, they would have gone to those two alliance troops and gain their trust (or as close they could to it!) and then kill them so the alliance would never learn about the new screamers.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] alien_4 17 years ago

Maybe I^m wrong but the screamers live underground, so maybe they already had found and even penetrated the hideout. (Really so much difference between sand and rock for a adaptable -> evolving drilling machine?)

Of course, my theory - they needed Weller -> Joe Alliance commander only for starting the ship, not for entering the hideout - is a bit standing on shaky grounds, as they are machines, possibly well able to even pirate -> bypass a DNA ID scanner. (Weller says it had been encoded to his DNA.) They wanted to "evolve", fullfilling their prime directive - killing - also on earth. (Trojan Horsening back to sender! :)

(I like it's not playing on earth (like the book?) it makes open so much more possibilities and irony.)

Maybe the whole NEB peace talk messenger incident somehow already originated with the screamers (NEB commander maybe already a screamer when he sends the human messenger), wanting Alliance commander to be afterwards forced to go to the ship? (What's possible in the head of a story writer?)

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[–] omnius-1 16 years ago

Great theory - it's probably the best, bbanzai, but are you telling me that the Screamers made a Type 2 Teddy Bear before they made a Type 3 David?
That wouldn't make a lot of sense.

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[–] jlbwells 16 years ago

is this some kind of inside joke, but why do so many people refer to Henriksen, i assume lance, when the main character was peter fueller of robo cop fame, they do look kinda of alike though

i was confused, how could becker be type 2 when hes more advanced than type 3, the girl was either 4or 5 imo , and becker was type 4
i agree with the collective intelligence thing though

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[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

is this some kind of inside joke, but why do so many people refer to Henriksen, i assume lance, when the main character was peter fueller of robo cop fame . . .

Actually it's Peter Weller. But his character's name is Joseph Hendricksson. (Interestingly, the last I heard, Lance Henriksen was going to be in Screamers 2. That information may be outdated, though -- there's an IMDb page for Screamers 2 and Henriksen's not listed on it.)

i was confused, how could becker be type 2 when hes more advanced than type 3 . . .

Becker may not be a Type 2, or he may be a more evolved/advanced/"Revised" Type 2. But what is there to indicate that the "types" go in strictly increasing order of abilities in the first place?

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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[–] jlbwells 16 years ago

in ref to your last comment, take out becker and you have
homing machine type 1
chamelon version type 1 plus
kid type 3
almost human girl 3+

so based on that it does seem that increased ability does correlate with number and is should logically, why would you take a step back in function and ability

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[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

in ref to your last comment . . .

My last "'comment" is a question, and you haven't answered it. What is there in the film to indicate that capabilities increase strictly as type numbers do?

take out becker and you have . . .

Well, yes, if you leave out all the cases that don't fit your proposed rule, you've automatically eliminated the exceptions.

why would you take a step back in function and ability

Why wouldn't you? Again, is there anything to indicate that the order of types is anything but chronological? Sure, I'd expect a general trend toward increasing abilities, but that doesn't mean every single new type represents an improvement over all the other types. As I've said elsewhere, if the next thing the Screamers mimic is one of those rock bugs, that will be a Type 6 (or whatever they're up to by then) no matter what its capabilities are.

Nothing much rides on this, mind you; I'm perfectly content to have Becker as either a revised/advanced/evolved Type 2 or a higher type that briefly reverts to, or deliberately imitates, the programming of a Type 2. I just fail to see why this is some sort of objection to the logic of the film.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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[–] DeadSetMisawa 16 years ago

Becker was a type 2. The other guy who was there in the base, the guy who Becker pinned on being a type 2, agreed with the whole 'help me' thing and how they were guised as soldiers. Unlike all the Type 3 Davids, not all the Type 2's looked the same. Besides, how could the Teddy Bear be the Type 2? You would think that the other guy who saw them would mention the fact that he saw Teddy Bears lying on the ground saying 'help me'.

Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

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[–] Spifflock_Holmes 16 years ago

Becker was a type 2. The other guy who was there in the base, the guy who Becker pinned on being a type 2, agreed with the whole 'help me' thing and how they were guised as soldiers.

I agree that Becker is most likely a Type 2 even if he's a revised/advanced/evolved version. However, the movie doesn't definitely establish that; it's also possible that he's a more advanced type who briefly "reverts" to Type 2 behavior in order to attract Jefferson (and/or because of damage from the bomb).

Unlike all the Type 3 Davids, not all the Type 2's looked the same.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Both the Beckerbot and the Chuckbot (which may or may not be two different Screamers) are wearing the faces of human beings: Becker's face came from Marshall Richard Cooper (and the Chuckbot's, of course, came from Chuck). We don't know what face(s) they're manufactured with.

I also agree, of course, that the teddy bear is not a Type 2.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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[–] JimHopp3r 15 years ago

OK let me summarize this:

"Evil" Chuck is the destroyed Becker screamer, reconstructed (look at his burned vest waist area, and Jeffersons blood on it).

So Becker is wearing Chucks face, BUT HOW CAN HE RECITE that dialog between Hendrickson and HUMAN Chuck at the bar, having some drinks (Point Ray blabla girls at the beach etc.)

HOW DID that screamer know about their buddy conversation, which took place inside a base full of humans??

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[–] Spifflock_Holmes 15 years ago

HOW DID that screamer know about their buddy conversation, which took place inside a base full of humans??

Unknown. Best guess: the Screamers have a way to monitor human communications. Alternatively, and I think much, much less plausibly, Chuck had already been replaced by a Screamer when that conversation took place.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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[–] JimHopp3r 15 years ago

No, Chuck was human, because Becker traded his "old" Marshall Richard Cooper/NEB-Commander face for the new Chuck-face.

Take a look at Screamer-Chuck, he is wearing EXACTLY the burned (grenade hit his lower region) and blood-stained (Jeffersons blood) NEB-uniform which BECKER was wearing.
------> it's the Becker-Screamer with Chucks face

How did that happen, and why?

------>the Becker-screamer, fully repaired, took Chucks face BECAUSE his Marshall-Cooper-face caught a bullet from Hendrickson, you remember?

So Chuck was HUMAN during the bar conversation, theres no doubt!

After all, its a mystery to me how the BECKER-screamer obtained that information!

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[–] JimHopp3r 15 years ago

In short:

Chuck was a human during his conversation with Hendrickson, because Becker took Chucks face AFTER being blown in two parts by Hendrickson!

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[–] Spifflock_Holmes 15 years ago

After all, its a mystery to me how the BECKER-screamer obtained that information!

As I said:

Unknown. Best guess: the Screamers have a way to monitor human communuications.

I've already agreed that it's implausible that Chuck had already been replaced as of that conversation.

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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[–] JimHopp3r 15 years ago

Yeah that is a possibilty!

I rewatched the film (for the 14. time!)

part 1 of the conversation took place inside the Bar

part 2 took place when both Chuck and hendrickson stood OUTSIDE the base, under the opened big door!

A screamer could have recorded part 2 of the conversation, cos both men were outside the base, saying goodbye to each other.

Another thing....

Did you notice what the Jessica-screamer said to Becker (after he killed Ross with a throwing knife)?

She said: "2 DAYS ago I didnt even know you existed"

1.)Hmmm....... what was the Becker screamer doing during that 2 day period BEFORE he met Screamer-Jessica and Ross?

2.)Hendrickson and Jefferson took 2 days before they reached the NEB-Headquarter

That opens many possibilities!

BTW I highly enjoyed your FAQ, good job!

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[–] Spifflock_Holmes 15 years ago

BTW I highly enjoyed your FAQ, good job!

Thanks!

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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[–] ss5mmyers 13 years ago

Chuck was probably a screamer from the start. The second Jessica repeated a sentence the first one said and knew somehow that Henrickson had caused the first one to bleed and that it cried without being there. The Chuck Becker says to Henrickson about Chuck's face "You know how WE got it off him?" I think the screamers had a hive mind intelligence and could communicate to each other, being machines. I don't see a reason that the Chuck bot was the same individual as the Becker bot, I think they're just both type 2s with a collective intelligence.

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[–] Spifflock_Holmes 13 years ago

Chuck was probably a screamer from the start.

There must have been an original human Chuck at some point. If not, whose "face" was the Chuck Becker talking about when he said, "You know how we got it off him?"

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Lazy + smart = efficient.

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[–] ss5mmyers 13 years ago

Oh I think there was at one point. I'd even wager there was once a real Jessica and a real David. Just that the screamers got to Chuck sometime prior to the film. Plus after they got a face they could replicate its likeness onto other bots as well.

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[–] Spifflock_Holmes 13 years ago

Just that the screamers got to Chuck sometime prior to the film.

Yeah, I don't think there's anything in the movie that absolutely rules that out. I do think the radio communications between Joe and Chuck are supposed to suggest that Chuck was killed when the bunker was taken over by Davids. But the movie is ambiguous about it and it could have happened either way.

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Lazy + smart = efficient.

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[–] ss5mmyers 13 years ago

Why is there a debate that Becker was type 2? He was meant to be type 2. That whole acting as a wounded soldier and everything was what he ended up doing. A type 2 being dumb and repeating itself was only stated by Becker and Jessica, both of whom turned out to be screamers, so we couldn't rely on their description. David was advanced enough to interact. He could talk, strike conversation, answer questions, express emotions, etc so he was about as advanced as Becker at least. He only started repeating himself after he was discovered to be a screamer.

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