MovieChat Forums > The Quick and the Dead (1995) Discussion > Herod didn't even acknowledge his son (K...

Herod didn't even acknowledge his son (Kid) as he was dying.

posted 14 years ago by metalhead4life
23 replies | jump to latest

What a cold hard man Herod was; didn't even give his Son (Kid) the acknowledgement he was so desperately seeking from his Father - even after he shot him and saw him lay bloody and dying, with his hand reaching out to him.

Edit 9/9/16: Yes, Herod does show remorse. I never said he didn't. The original thread I started here is about Herod not acknowledging his Son (kid) as he lay there dying, reaching his hand out to Herod. At that moment, Herod could have accepted his hand and acknowledged his Son, which is what Kid wanted so desperately. Herod did acknowledge it after Kid died to Ellen

[–] brettweir3 14 years ago

Yeah, I don't this Raimi wanted to portray Herod with any compassion whatsoever. If Herod had opened up to his son in any kind of way in that scene, it might have made viewers develop a sympathy for Herod in the final gunfight with lady which would be just plain strange considering what he did too her father and his attitude throughout the movie.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] najdier 13 years ago

Herod had told Lady that his wife had been unfaithful. The viewer can deduce that she had cheated on him with a farmer and that he suspected that Kid was the farmer's son. In the scene when he buys Cort a gun he points to Kid's hand and calls it a "farmer's hand". A man like Herod would not have any sympathy for a son he regards as a product of infidelity.

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[–] Tjcat 13 years ago

Good observation, najdier.

[–] Adamwesssttt 10 years ago

Except that wouldn't make him Herod's son at all. Stepson at best, but I don't think Kid would have such a hard-on about proving himself to his step-father. Infidelity was (and kinda is now) a double standard so I'm sure Herod hooked up with plenty of women along the road and probably had a few children out there.

[–] IcingOnTheCake 10 years ago

That's the point, Herod said he wasn't proven to be his son. The Kid thought Herod was the one to have impregnated his mother.

She may have cheated but maybe not. He may have cheated but, of course he was fine with the double standard. It was a sign of the time and he was self-centered, to say the least.

I believe he thought he was his son but didn't want to show compassion which he may have believed would show weakness. He also didn't want him to follow in his footsteps.

[–] bradknopf 13 years ago

Herod certainly doesn't show the level of sympathy that a normal father would, HOWEVER...
He gives the Kid a chance to back out of the fight, and then actually appears to be making excuses when he says that his wife had an affair with a farmer and that it was never proven that the Kid was his son.

When you look at how ruthless Herod acts the rest of the film, those little bits actually seem to point to doubt in Herod's mind, which is as much compassion as someone like him could possibly provide.

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[–] blueeyeslionheart13 13 years ago

In One scene, The Lady told the Kid that he doesn't prove anything to anybody after he won some matches. He say no that is not it. Lady said, "What do you want out of this?" The Kid said, "Respect." ALl he wants is respect from his father and he never got it while he was laying dying. He died knowing that his father doesn't respect him.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] metalhead4life 12 years ago

Well said, bradknopf. That is about as much compassion as a man like Herod could give..........would even expect less hahaha.

[–] drmonkey55 13 years ago

If you watch the whole scene, he does show remorse, in his way. As the scene pans out, you see him drop his hat, then his gun. He definitely is hurting.

[–] koffeenkreame41-1 13 years ago

^^He was in tears in that scene before he walked off. Great scene, you could tell Herod was upset before he walked off. He was upset that the Kid didn't listen to him & leave the gunfight.

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[–] Dark_Sithlord 12 years ago

Herod had publicly denounced the Kid as his son, so that's the truth he has to maintain. But privately, I think Herod had his doubts. As the Kid lays there dying, I don't know how anyone could watch that scene and not see the regret Herod had...it was written all over his face, in his body language, the words he said and the way he said them. Hackman did a great job with that scene.

As if to punctuate his remorse, Herod drops his gun and hat. I think it's kind of neat that as people were carrying the Kid's dead body away, Kid's hat drops at the same time Herod was being helped away by his men and Herod also drops his hat as if to show that even in death, Herod and the Kid were a reflection of one another.

There was also a brief scene after Herod kills the Kid (at the 1:31:30 mark on the DVD) in which Herod is cleaning his gun, and he simply pauses. He's mumbling to himself and it looks like he's taking measure of what he had done, like he's silently coming to the realization that he had killed his son.

[–] stoaty 10 years ago

I think Herod was pushing the Kid to pull out of the gunfight to prove that he wasn't his son. He believed that the Kid pulling out of the gunfight would confirm for him that the Kid was not of his blood.

The only way for the Kid to prove that he was Herod's son, was to stay in the fight.

Only once the the trigger is pulled does Herod realise that he has killed his son. Until that moment, he always had doubt about his son's worthiness - and therefore the probability that he was not really of his blood.

So the Kid is trying to impress his father, while Herod can only be sure if the Kid is his son if the Kid acts like his father and won't back down from the fight.

Maybe even a part of Herod wanted the Kid to win... but Herod was just that little bit better.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (56502067) 10 years ago

He wasn't cleaning it. He was filing the pin down to make it fire quicker because he knew Cort was most likely going to blow him away. I feel like his muttering is her nerves working overtime for the upcoming fight.

[–] Dark_Sithlord 9 years ago

After filing down the pin, you still have to clean the gun of the shavings.

[–] metalhead4life 8 years ago

Yes,, Herod does show remorse. I never said he didn't. The original thread I started here is about Herod not acknowledging his Son (kid) as he lay there dying, reaching his hand out to Herod. At that moment, Herod could have accepted his hand and acknowledged his Son, which is what Kid wanted so desperately. Herod did acknowledge it after Kid died to Ellen.

[–] metalhead4life 8 years ago

Yes, Herod does show remorse. I never said he didn't. The original thread I started here is about Herod not acknowledging his Son (kid) as he lay there dying, reaching his hand out to Herod. At that moment, Herod could have accepted his hand and acknowledged his Son, which is what Kid wanted so desperately. Herod did acknowledge it after Kid died to Ellen.

[–] lucid-lunatic 12 years ago

Am I the only one who felt sorry for Herod about the business with Kid..? He gave him several chances to back out... Even warned him (indirectly) that the contest was about to become "to the death." Told him to give up just before making the announcement.

He knew Fee was his son, and was trying to protect him as best as he could without showing weakness in front of enemies that would have torn him apart.

Whether he deserved to be torn apart is a different subject entirely...

Might be God's will, but it's my willy.

[–] drystyx 12 years ago

I don't think Herod ever doubts the Kid is his son. He treats him with too much fatherly scorn/ribbing/concern. He truly tries to make the kid exit the tournament, and is very adamant that the town will "some day" belong to the kid, just not yet.

When the kid loses, Herod "rationalizes", which is what you do when you shoot someone or something. You try to justify it. At this point, Herod tries to convince himself it isn't his son, but the faces pretty much tell us otherwise.

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[–] strntz 12 years ago

Let's not forget that while Herod gave the kid an honorable out, he didn't take it. This means that Fee was either going to die by Herod's gun, or he was going to kill Herod, who he believed was his father.

No sympathy for either.

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