MovieChat Forums > In the Mouth of Madness (1995) Discussion > My take on why some fans seem to be disa...

My take on why some fans seem to be disappointed with his films--

posted 10 years ago by jswindter01
15 replies | jump to latest

I believe I've finally come to understand why it is that so many of John Carpenter's fans seem to be so disappointed with him and his films time and time again. While I am certain I am not the first or last who has come to this most obvious conclusion, but as I said for me, personally, I have figured out what I believe most likely to be the issue.

I know my love for Carpenter started with the film so very many horror fans fell in love with, and remain in love with.. John Carpenter's Halloween 1978. And it was that film that introduced me to John Carpenter. The film is the reason why I have loved Carpenter, and IMO, I've now come to see that the film with which John Carpenter became the legendary horror icon is actually not at all what Carpenter is about, nor is the infamous film at all what Carpenter seems to enjoy creating and directing.

Clearly John Carpenter's heart and soul belong to the genre of Science Fiction, and his involvement in the creation of "Halloween" allowed Carpenter to have a career in Hollywood and with this great achievement he began to make the movies of which he'd dreamed of making..the movies that he loved to see.. The movies that John Carpenter's true heart and soul belong to..Science Fiction.

If you really look at how Halloween came to be and Carpenters involvement IMO, its really easy to see that the main core of ideas, and structure for that horror film WAS NOT from Carpenter, but rather Yablans who came up with the core concept and ideas, to which Carpenter and his girlfriend, Hill further fleshed out into characters, and details thus becoming the movie so many of us came to know and love as, "John Carpenter's Halloween".

This clearly was not what John's heart and desire were longing for in once having broke into Hollywood his continuing in the same horror vein as the "slasher", Halloween(obvious due to his Sci-Fi creations that were to follow). He used that great opportunity that got his foot in the door as merely a stepping stone into getting to make the type movies that HE wanted, that HE was interested in, and what HE, himself, his whole life long had loved going to movie theater's to see... Science Fiction!

I admittedly am not a Sci-Fi fan, not even in the very least, and usually avoid Sci-Fi like the plague. But it is exactly this genre of Sci-Fi that the infamous director of Halloween loves to make, create, and bring to the "big screen". And IMO, due to that fact it leaves fans similar to myself who fell in love with Carpenter strictly due to 1978's Halloween, its left many of us disappointed with Carpenter's films time AND time again. They're nothing like Halloween and in fact are in a whole other category much different than the type of horror of Halloween. I recognize that there are also many fans who love both genres, horror and sci-fi alike, and IMO, those fans seem to not be the ones who've found themselves disappointed time and again with Carpenter's movies post-Halloween.

While there is absolutely nothing wrong with Carpenter's love for Sci-Fi and he may indeed be a master in that genre, but IMO, the reason for the overwhelming disappointment that seems to plague him time and time again..movie after movie is because of the fans that love him because of Halloween, a genre of movie that it appears as though Carpenter does not enjoy, or desire to make, create, and bring to the big screen. Yes, that particular type of horror movie gave him the opportunity to make the films he does enjoy, and I believe I now have come to understand that I can love Carpenter for all he gave us in Halloween, and respect his love of Sci-Fi and understand that its exactly that particular genre that Carpenter will most likely continue on in.

Again, I realize others may have long since clearly understood these above described reasons for the disappointment many fans have had with Carpenter's films, but I, personally, am just now coming to understand why it is that I, as a huge "Carpenter fan", have found myself so often disappointed with many of his films.

[–] PhilKill 10 years ago

What a load of *beep* I stopped reading after the second paragraph or so because what you've written is a whole lot of nothing and you just repeat yourself. Carpenter was highly successful in making horror, sci-fi and cult movies and more, but around the time of escape from LA he just seemed to start producing below par for what fans of his were used to (some still like Vampires though). He's not really done much lately, I did quite enjoy his last movie though; 'The Ward' which was in fact horror. He's not done a sci-fi since 2001 and that had horror themes. And his best work in my opinion 'The Thing' (and his top rated on IMDB) is just as much horror (if not more so) as it is science fiction. I think at his peak he directed a variety of films that fans love, people were disappointed when he started making films not of the same standard as the work he was producing between 1974-88. What about the beloved 'Big Trouble in little China'? A b-movie styled action adventure film, at his best the guy can do anything. Out of the last 8 things he worked on only two were sci-fi the rest was horror.

The problem isn't fans liked Halloween (which admittedly is a classic) and he wanted to do sci-fi that the fans didn't want or like. He just worked on a few films that weren't as good as his best. I'd love to see him come back properly. He's a pioneer in the horror genre.

[–] jswindter01 10 years ago

Yea, I'd love to see him "come back properly" as well regarding the horror genre, but as I repeatedly said in the above load of *beep*.. That's yet to happen.

Load of *beep* or not, fact is its not happened.

[–] PhilKill 10 years ago

But your post suggests people are disappointed because he started producing science fiction films instead of horror. I don't think this is true. He just started making below par films to his usual standard. He made good films in several genres. And many of the less good films were also horror. Did you read my reply?

[–] MrBlondee 10 years ago

I completely agree with Phil. In the Mouth of Madness was his last truly great film, The Thing being his best closely followed by They Live. OP calls himself a Carpenter fan but only likes one movie of his, the post is full of contradictions and illogical conclusions. I love Carpenter and I agree that most of his fans became disappointed in him making sub par movies, this has nothing to do with the genres he chose to produce in.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] cybopath 10 years ago

Carpenter like many Directors isn't one thing. I think it's a miss-statement to say Carpenter didn't want to do horror. Carpenter grew up on Westerns, Sci-Fi movies and Horror Comics. One way or another all them have made there way into his films.

Carpenter wrote the Fog and Prince of Darkness. The only genre he never really got to visit was the Western but elements of it make their way into Assault, Escape and Vampires.

[–] Snamien 10 years ago

I think you might be onto something, but not really that he didn't want to make horror, which I think he obviously did, but that he wasn't so interested in the "slasher" kind of horror, as you mention. There's many types of horror movies.

Most of his horror movies are related to something mysterious/horrific arriving from another dimension/space/hell. Now, this is also true for Halloween. Myers also has this connection to something supernatural, but the build up of the movie is of the typical slasher-style. That's something I think anybody immediately recognizes in contrast to his other movies.

I think it's that mystery of his horror movies that interests him, and yes, particularly science fiction, and not the typical slashing stupid teenagers deal. I'm certain I've heard him speak with love about the mid 20th century sci-fi movies, and he feels like he belong in that period. I also know he was devastated about the criticism of "the Thing", which really seemed to be one of his dream projects. A lot of us now praises this (me included) as one of the best sci-movies ever made, but that this wasn't so well received back then, might prove you right.

Personally I'm more fond of films like The Thing, Prince of Darkness and ITMOM, than Halloween, although it's a great slasher movie. I like all of his movies actually. I feel I really get his style.

[–] gymkata4u 10 years ago

When Carpenter is allowed to make the film according to his vision, it's usually great. When the studios start meddling, that's when the final product isn't the usual Carpenter standard. Especially the ones that fall apart in the final act

[–] ContinentalOp 10 years ago

You cannot be a Carpenter fan and be disappointed with most of his films because to be a fan of someone you have to like most of their work. People who are fans of 'Halloween' but not of Carpenter's other movies are simply fans of that one movie but not the actual director. You took a flawed idea (that you can be a fan based on one or only a handful of Carpenter movies) and ran with it.

Formerly KingAngantyr

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ContinentalOp 9 years ago

I agree that calling oneself an overall fan of an artist over 1 work doesn't make much sense, but neither does this position.

Not really. If you like something like four movies, yet dislike about 20, from one director you can hardly be called a fan of that director, merely a fan of those four movies that just so happen to be directed by the same person.

Formerly KingAngantyr

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bornskeptic 9 years ago

Long winded poster doesn't like sci-fi and is shocked to discover he doesn't like John Carpenter's sci-fi movies.
Like, wow.

[–] redmiatazoomzoom 8 years ago

Short answer: They have the I.Q. of a potato.

I never liked Halloween and it's really Carpenter's worst movie. Brainless slashers are for brainless fans. No depth. No real story. It's garbage. It's what Hollywood and fans wanted at the time, and he needed to work to make money, so... there ya go. I feel bad that he is mostly remembered because of that stupid movie and not from this one, Prince of Darkness, or Big Trouble in Little China. It's always Halloween, Michael Myers, *cliche piano notes* bla bla bla.

The funny thing: Halloween 3 - Season of the Witch is more like a movie that he would have made but he had nothing to do with it! It was steeped in the occult and technology, which is exactly his forte.

~
My list of 1,000+ weird wild movies: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls053942167/

[–] Navaros 8 years ago

Halloween is a mediocre film within a useless sub-genre (i.e. "slasher"). Therefore, I can't buy into the OP's premise which asserts that Halloween is a great film.

Brainless slashers are for brainless fans. No depth. No real story. It's garbage.

Very well-said! That is a perfect summation of the "slasher" sub-genre.