MovieChat Forums > Higher Learning (1995) Discussion > The ''Rape'' scene/ how bad this movie s...

The ''Rape'' scene/ how bad this movie sucks


I didnt get it. While actual rape would be an awful thing, is it really the end of the world if some dude throws a couple of rawdog pumps into some skank who was gonna bang him anyway. Honestly now, cmon.... cmon. I mean how devastated would you actually be. Why didnt the scene just call for a normal rape scene, then perhaps her reaction might be justified. Also, i used to enjoy this movie back when it came out and I was 15, but I caught it on HBO a couple days ago, and realized how utterly retarded it is. I read an article about PTA, where he said he watched "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" everyday while making "There will be blood", well Paul Haggis must have watched this everyday while making "Crash", thus convincing him that his movie seemed logical and rational.

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[deleted]

is it really the end of the world if some dude throws a couple of rawdog pumps into some skank who was gonna bang him anyway.


Really?

I mean REALLY???

Are you justifying this? I mean sure she was going to have sex with him but it's enough when your potential play thing is being aggressive and making you *beep*

but yah, I detest this movie.

I get it up, I get it up in the dark, I make her feel I'm not a holy man

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[deleted]

So...basically what you're saying is...you're only used to seeing one image of rape in movies and this is foreign to you and so it is not rape and you demand your "normal rape" (whatever that is) to satisfy whatever deviant sexual needs you have while watching bad 90s movies. It was rape. She wanted a condom, he wouldn't put one on, she told him to stop, he wouldn't stop...yeah RAPE. I wonder if the guys posting about how "that wasn't REAL rape" have done this to women. I always said imdb was full of sickos, but the thought that it was full of rapists hadn't actually come up. Interesting.

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Wasn't normal rape or any other kind of rape. It wasn't rape, full stop. You cannot become a rapist mid-consentual sex by just continuing what you are doing - heck, she gave him all of 3 seconds to just stop dead before she screamed and ran down the stairs.

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Yeah, it's her goddamned body and she can tell a man to stop f^cking her and expect the man to do so. He is a rapist. A person says stop, you stop. There IS no other move that is justifiable. That she repeatedly told him to stop gave him additional opportunities to do so. He did not. He is a rapist.

How anyone can think any other way is sickening in both their interpretation of these events and the morality.

At what point did the woman forfeit ownership of her body?



If you wanted real change, why did you vote Republican or Democrat?

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[deleted]

Hey! Stop picking on my grammar!
I have extenuating circumstances, since nearly every sentence is interrupted by a 3-year old (or a 4-year old, or a 6-year old) who wakes up (or is woken up by their "Alzheimered" grandma) in the middle of the night. It's a wonder I remember to punctuate- and a miracle if I do so correctly.

At the very least, my spelling is correct more often than not. Can't you appreciate that?



A boob in the hand beats two in the bra

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[deleted]

Sometimes I go back to read my posts and wonder how the hell anyone made sense of what I was trying to say.

Luckily, I have a sense of humor about myself and don't take your comments personally. But it sure will cut into my flowing and random thoughts, forcing me to analyze my friggin' sentence structure.

Be gentle with me. Often, the message boards provide my only outlet and inlet for adult conversation. Everything else is Thomas the Train, Disney princesses and explaining to a 90-year old woman that these children in her house are not her children and it's not 1978 anymore.





A boob in the hand beats two in the bra

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[deleted]

You mean the same "goddamned body" she let him into in the first place?

Sorry, it was not rape. It may not have been pleasant sex for those 2 or 3 seconds, but it was not rape. I will never accept a brief continuation of non violent consexual sex as being rape.

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No means no even if it started out as consensual sex. Consent for sexual activity can be taken back at any time. Also the young woman was under the influence and people under the influence are not legally able to consent to sex, that is the law in many states. The act of holding her down could also be considered as interference with freedom which is also a crime, only someone that hasn't been raped would consider being held down and penetrated while your screaming for someone to stop "Non-Violent"...

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He was under the influence as well, but he's meant to recognise immediately that she definitely wanted him to stop?

He wasn't "holding her down", you dolt, it's called the missionary position. I suppose if the woman gets on top, she's holding the man down?

Consent should not be given if you intend to take it back. He did not start slapping her around, or force her into a less comfortable position, or try to penetrate her anus, or start choking her, he just continued doing what she was giggling and moaning pleasurably about 5 seconds earlier until she freaked out and ran down stairs. He even then attempted to call her to apologise and she rebuked him, and then she claims rape at the rally (no charges, no verdict) when what happened to her was certainly nothing of the sort.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I don't know about horribly wrong. She wasn't injured, didn't fall pregnant, didn't catch a disease. She was more embarrassed than anything that the "cute guy" she was keen on didn't respect her - which is the root of a lot of crying rape.

If you're going to classify this kind of thing as "rape" then you really need to create at least two classes of rape, like maybe misdemeanor rape and felony rape (ie. real rape).

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If more men were held down and anally penetrated while they yelled for someone to stop maybe they wouldn't think there was "two kinds of rapes" or a non-violent rape. All rape is violent, and when someone says no they mean no period.

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Sorry to break it to you, but more men ARE raped daily in prison (in the manner in which you talk about) than women are raped outside of prison. That is a fact.

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So, to follow your logic, these men are "felony" raped: i.e. they could never have given consent, because they are in jail, ostensibly heterosexual and not in the least interested in anal sex.
But let's say two gay men got together at a house party, one poured a half-gallon of alcohol down the other's throat, and they agreeably started making out. If one slipped into the other's "glory hole" without a condom (think they call that "bareback" these days), and the receiver said stop Stop STOP -- that would be "misdemeanor" rape because

Consent should not be given if you intend to take it back. He did not ... try to penetrate her anus

Makes sense to me.

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Consent should not be given if you intend to take it back.

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. You're either a troll trying to get a reaction or you're the type of guy who would actually do this sort of thing. EVERY person, regardless of gender, has the right to choose what to do with their own body. There is absolutely no excuse for a guy continuing to have sex with a girl once she's clearly told him to stop. Now I agree that there are circumstances in which women do blow things out of proportion (ie. make rape claims even though they weren't clear about wanting to stop and expected the guy to read their mind) but in any case where the man has clearly been told "no," that should be the end of it. It doesn't matter if he's mid-thrust, his a$$ better stop and back off right then and there. Is it annoying if a girl leads a guy on and then throws him out right in the middle just for the fun of it? Yes, that would make her a world class b!tch. But it still doesn't give the guy a right to keep doing what he wants with her body. She could be the most active hooker in the country and would still have the right to back out at any time. If you don't see that failing to do so IS rape / assault, then you have a serious problem.

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Uh, what? So if a woman lets you penetrate her, you get to penetrate her for as long as you want even if she decides that she doesn't want you to anymore? For *beep* sake, what is wrong with you? It was rape.

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Of course it was rape. It's actually an important scene because it stimulates a dialogue. This is exactly the kind of thing that happens on college campuses everyday. Would anybody believe her? Is she justified in calling it rape?

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I'll ask you another question. If you were a judge, would you give a similar sentence for those 3 seconds of "rape" as a "raped in a back alley by a stranger" type scenario?

Or how many years of his life should he lose for continuing for 3 seconds?

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Calm down, Gabby. I hate to tell you this, but if a man's inside a woman, it might actually take a second to stop his body.

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You have serious issues. People can withdraw their consent for sex or any other activity at any time. Kissing, hugs, sex, basketball, running, working out - name any activity you want. People can stop if they want and forcing them to continue is wrong. When we are talking about sexual activity, it is called rape.

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My biggest problem is THIS: Those feminists waving signs "dead men don't rape" which obviously implies they want this guy to get the DEATH PENALTY. There are three penalties most feminists insist on for rape:DEATH, CASTRATION, or LIFE in prison with no parole.

Now for crimes OTHER than rape we have "degrees" different levels of severity. For example with FIRST degree murder you are eligable in some states for the death penalty, for SECOND degree murder you cannot get death penalty but maybe life in prison, for MANSLAUGHTER (which is basically a lower degree of murder) you can get out in a few years, and even then it is divided into "voluntary" and "involuntary" and there is even a term "negligent homicide" which is what Mike Jackson's father is facing.

There is a lower level of kidnapping called "false imprisonment" and for drug crimes the sentence varies depending on quantity. For theft there is misdemeanor "petty theft" or "grand theft" and "grand larceny" depending on the value of what is stolen, candy bar from seven eleven you get probation steal a car you get state prison.

Yet these stupid feminists somehow think that all rape is EXACTLY THE SAME and they refuse to make distinctions between sickos like Philip Gerido who raped JC Dugard and various other monsters hiding in the bushes or gang rapists like the movie THE ACCUSED with people like the guy in this movie or someone (often a famous celebrity or pro athlete) in some kind of "he said she said" consent dispute where they went into a hotel room together and then she cries rape (like what happened to Mike Tyson).

Maybe these feminazis should allow a distinction between these different types of rape and NOT try to give the DEATH PENALTY to the guy in this movie and Mike Tyson. It pisses me off that they are fine with any other crime (like murder listed above for examples) having "degrees" but for RAPE they refuse any distinction between the different situations.

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He was under the influence as well, but he's meant to recognise immediately that she definitely wanted him to stop?

He wasn't "holding her down", you dolt, it's called the missionary position. I suppose if the woman gets on top, she's holding the man down?

Consent should not be given if you intend to take it back. He did not start slapping her around, or force her into a less comfortable position, or try to penetrate her anus, or start choking her, he just continued doing what she was giggling and moaning pleasurably about 5 seconds earlier until she freaked out and ran down stairs. He even then attempted to call her to apologise and she rebuked him, and then she claims rape at the rally (no charges, no verdict) when what happened to her was certainly nothing of the sort.


If you are ever in the unfortunate position to use this as a defense in court please try to come back and let us all know how that "but she wanted it" defense works out for ya.

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If all it takes is just being on top of someone during sex that STARTED OUT consensual and taking more than a few SECONDS to get off of them when they suddenly change their minds to constitute rape than couldn't a MAN be a victim too? All you need is a scrawny wimp on the bottom and a big heavy fat woman on top (there are men with "fat fetishes" though I am not one of them) and if she does not get off fast enough can the man claim he was raped?

And another thing, taking advantage of someone being drunk or on drugs has often been part of a rape accusation. A big difference between this and rape involving greater strength and physical force is it is not about physical attack but rather taking advantage of someone whose judgment is hindered. Now if someone is so drugged or drunk they are unconscious or nearly unconscious then it really is rape but I just mean enough for poor decision making. So if a MAN is drunk or drugged and has sex with a woman can he claim she raped him by taking advantage of his diminished capacity? If they are BOTH drunk did they rape each other? or is it always the man who is guilty?

It is a HUGE legal mess that really requires different "degrees" of rape, and I personally think the lowest degrees should not even require the convict to be a registered sex offender, in some cases a year in prison or even probation is enough.

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[deleted]

evanmangs87 if your name really is EVAN then you have the same name as me!

I really really do not see how it is rape to have sex with someone who is drunk or doing drugs (just the fact that you had sex with a drugged or drunk person I mean, since rape is a violent attack regardless) is rape. People get drunk or do drugs then have sex ALL THE TIME. If all of these instances ended in a rape conviction prisons would get over crowded and the megan's law database would crash.

And I am really sick of these goddamn feminists, most of whom are bulldyke lesbians who hate men anyway assuming all men are rapists.

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What makes it rape is the word "No". She stated that "no" pretty clearly and distinctly.

Just like the word "yes" makes it a really fun party.

The bitch of it is that had he respected her 'no', he probably could have been hittin' that sweet 'tang for a while.


On a side-note, I want to emphasize that there are girls out there that do indeed encourage a "rape-culture". They giggle the word "no" when a boy moves his hand to her booby, and they act coy and relent, even as a "no" is being stated.
This practice needs to be discouraged, as it weakens the importance and emphasis of "no" and leads to a confusion over the traits of "the hunt" and the traits of rape.

So girls (and boys too, I guess), when you say "no", make sure you mean it.

And boys, when she says "no", assume she means it.



"Atlas Shrugged- Part 1"- NOW in Canada
Coming soon to DVD!

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> What makes it rape is the word "No". She stated that "no" pretty clearly and distinctly.

Wrong. You need to give at least enough time for the "no" to be properly understood, particularly if you are mid-intercourse. I'd say that would require more than 3 seconds to someone who is drunk and having a good time.

Heck, you could seduce anyone and make it "rape" mid-way through by just saying "no" - no matter how enthusiastically you entered into it.

Entering a vagina without consent is rape. Staying in there for 3 seconds after they change their mind is not rape.

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No challenge after 2 years. That's a win.

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




My New Year's resolution is to simply write 2̶0̶1̶4̶ 2015 instead of 2014"
.

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Just watched it. Why? I saw the actors list and it was also given 3 stars by my cable company. WTF! I totally agree with you Darkfalz. At the very most this would have been a misdemeanor sexual assault deal but doubt any prosecutor would take it to trial.

Movie was poorly written with too many subplots. I simply do not believe this "film" merits any controversy about sexual crimes.

Nice job sayin' the truth for so long.

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Now for crimes OTHER than rape we have "degrees" different levels of severity. For example with FIRST degree murder you are eligable in some states for the death penalty, for SECOND degree murder you cannot get death penalty but maybe life in prison, for MANSLAUGHTER (which is basically a lower degree of murder) you can get out in a few years, and even then it is divided into "voluntary" and "involuntary" and there is even a term "negligent homicide" which is what Mike Jackson's father is facing.

There is a lower level of kidnapping called "false imprisonment" and for drug crimes the sentence varies depending on quantity. For theft there is misdemeanor "petty theft" or "grand theft" and "grand larceny" depending on the value of what is stolen, candy bar from seven eleven you get probation steal a car you get state prison.

Yet these stupid feminists somehow think that all rape is EXACTLY THE SAME and they refuse to make distinctions between sickos like Philip Gerido who raped JC Dugard and various other monsters hiding in the bushes or gang rapists like the movie THE ACCUSED with people like the guy in this movie or someone (often a famous celebrity or pro athlete) in some kind of "he said she said" consent dispute where they went into a hotel room together and then she cries rape (like what happened to Mike Tyson).

This is already the case. Here is a list of a few of the things police, prosecutors and judges take into account when deciding which charges to bring against someone accused of rape, or when sentencing a convicted rapist:

whether the victim was a child
whether the victim was mentally incompetent
whether the victim was physically disabled
whether the victim was a relative, spouse, employee, student, patient, etc. of the rapist
whether a weapon was used against the victim
whether the victim was seriously physically injured
whether the victim was permanently physically injured
whether the victim was unconscious at the time of the rape
whether the victim was intoxicated at the time of the rape
if the victim was intoxicated, whether the rapist administered the drugs to the victim
if the rapist administered drugs to the victim, whether they did so without the victim's knowledge or consent
whether the rapist acted with another person or alone
whether the rape occurred during the commission of another crime

Details like these are considered in every jurisdiction. Someone who rapes an infant to death is punished more severely than someone who sexually imposes on their sleeping spouse. A rapist who beats their victim into senselessness faces a greater charge than a rapist who disguises themselves as their victim's significant other.

Also, not everyone who is charged or tried for the crime of sexual penetration of, or with, another person without that person's consent is charged with "rape." Some examples of other descriptions of this crime are "sexual battery," "sexual assault," "unlawful sexual penetration" and "criminal sexual contact." Depending on the specifics of the case, the accused person can be charged with either a felony or a misdemeanor. Every jurisdiction recognizes different degrees and classes of sexual crimes.

Here is a list of a few states in which a person can be convicted of the crime of "first degree rape" or "rape in the first degree":

Washington:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.44

New York:

http://www.slc.edu/offices-services/security/assault/Penal_Law.html

Maryland:

http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2010/criminal-law/title-3/subtitl e-3/

Oregon:

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/oregon/or-statutes/oregon_statutes_ chapter_163_5

Delaware:

http://law.justia.com/codes/delaware/2012/title11/c005/sc02/

There are also many different kinds of punishment a convicted rapist can receive. Sometimes the rapist is simply ordered to refrain from all contact with their victim. Sometimes they are placed on house arrest. Sometimes they are placed on probation and made to undergo counseling. Sometimes they are fined. Sometimes they are hospitalized. Sometimes they are put in jail for months. Sometimes they are put in prison for years. It really does vary.

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She did not consent to sex without a condemn. He forced non-consensual sex on her. She was raped.

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[deleted]

Did he cum inside her & did she get knocked up?

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So because she didn't get knocked up it isn't rape?! Seriously twisted view. Her last "nooooooo" seemed to indicate he was cumming in her and she called him an *beep* and ran.

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Hey OP! Don't you know that rape is whatever any woman decides it is? That if she acts like a drunk slut all night dirty dancing and grabbing guys' crotches, and a guy pinches her ass, that guy should have his hand cut off? And that he should spend the rest of his life paying her retributive alimony (unless he's black, in which case he's covered by centuries of white oppression and slavery and the government - ie white taxpayers - can pay instead)? Thank goodness proper police resources are finally being ploughed into this urgent problem, instead of on lesser, victimless crimes like armed robbery and murder. Glad we got that cleared up.

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I was with you until your little racist rant about black people.

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LOL, your simple mind fails to see the irony of opposing one part yet supporting another part of the same Orwellian politically correct thoughtcrime diktat imposed upon us by government-media.

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A lot Kobe/Laker fans posting. Maybe the rapist himself since he's bored rehabbing his achilles.

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