First, Wickham tried to elope with Darcy's sister although it was more because he wanted her money than anything else.
Then he goes with Lydia Bennett and I never understood that. She was extremely childish, immature and annoying. Add to that, extremely poor. I never understood why he chose to run off with her.
Plus, once it shows them in hiding and she comes to me rubbing his hair and putting her arms around him, he does not look very happy.
First, Wickham tried to elope with Darcy's sister although it was more because he wanted her money than anything else.
Then he goes with Lydia Bennett and I never understood that. She was extremely childish, immature and annoying. Add to that, extremely poor. I never understood why he chose to run off with her.
You make good points because Wickham's motives regarding Georgiana, including revenge against Darcy and the desire to profit from some of her inheritance, are made pretty clear.
We know that Lydia & Wickham got along pretty well from the start, and they met up again in Brighton (or whatever) from where they eloped, but I don't think the book nor any film productions make Wickham's OBJECTIVES for running away with with Lydia very clear, or what he might have wanted exactly. Was it just sex? That only gets you so far.
It seems like they were in hiding, holed up in a small apartment, getting drunk on wine, and not really going out very much. Doesn't seem very exciting or resourceful.
Did the forces consider Wickham AWOL? Did he have some kind of plan to obtain the results he finally did -- i.e. commission from marriage?
I've been trying to figure this out but it seems to be a bit of a mystery.
Don't think I agree with the "pedophile" part but Wickham did like 'em young.
As I said in my post further up the page, Lydia seems to have attached herself to Wickham. I'm pretty certain he would have used her for sex, and just as certain that she would have been tossed aside in favour of a young and gullible woman with a sizeable inheritance.
If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.
As I said in my post further up the page, Lydia seems to have attached herself to Wickham. I'm pretty certain he would have used her for sex, and just as certain that she would have been tossed aside in favour of a young and gullible woman with a sizeable inheritance.
Yes - I read your post which is very well written and references Lydia's perspective.
My post attempts to question Wickham's objectives regarding Lydia from a broader perspective apart from just the "sexual" aspect for which I agree with you, and also, of course the book as well as all film productions quite clearly emphasize Wickham's playboy lifestyle and gold digger personality.
At the time that they eloped, Wickham wasn’t trying to run off with Lydia; he was just trying to escape his gambling debts. He owed money to his fellow officers (debts of honor from losing at cards) and was unable to pay up, so he was running off. Bringing Lydia along was an after thought.
Wickham liked them gullible and easy to manipulate to make his life easy. In two instances that correlates with youth but I don't recall how old Miss King was. Wickham's association with these three women, however, does not give us any idea what he would do if he were totally free to choose according to his real preferences. Only his friendship with Lizzy does that.
Wickham liked them gullible and easy to manipulate to make his life easy. In two instances that correlates with youth but I don't recall how old Miss King was.
Agreed.
Wickham's association with these three women, however, does not give us any idea what he would do if he were totally free to choose according to his real preferences. Only his friendship with Lizzy does that.
OK - this throws me for a loop. I don't know what this means. What do you mean by this: "Wickham's association with these three women does not give us any idea what he would do if he were totally free to choose according to his real preferences. Only his friendship with Lizzy does that."?
IMO freedom of choice is a pivotal foundation of Pride & Prejudice that transcends ALL characters. This is a novel about everyone making choices according to their preferences.
Don't we already know that Wickham is "totally free to choose"? He made all of his own free choices, he's a free member of society, and no one had so much power over him as to control his choices.
Don't we also know that Wickham made all his choices "according to his real preferences"? Austen strongly implied what Wickham's "real preferences" are and we were told what he did.
As for Wickham's friendship with Lizzy, I agree that they became fast friends but he fooled her from the very beginning -- a realization she soon arrived at. Another important foundation in Pride & Prejudice is that "Mr. Wickham is blessed with such happy manners as may ensure his making friends -- whether he may be equally capable of retaining them, is less certain".
Anyway, I'm a bit confused. Once again, could you please clarify what you mean by this?
Wickham's association with these three women, however, does not give us any idea what he would do if he were totally free to choose according to his real preferences. Only his friendship with Lizzy does that.
Wickham's real preference is money and he pursues Miss Darcy to get his hands on her money. Ditto Miss King. There is nothing to suggest that he was attracted to them, which was my point about preferences. Regarding Lydia, Wickham did not seek her out. She threw herself at him, had enough money to get away, and he fully intended to dispose of her and find a rich wife on the continent. Of course, Wickham had free will but he didn't have a full purse.
So my point is that, with the exception of perhaps Lizzy and putting money aside, we really have no idea what Wickham's taste in women is.
So my point is that, with the exception of perhaps Lizzy and putting money aside, we really have no idea what Wickham's taste in women is.
Ok thanks, so in your post, by "real preferences" you meant in terms of women Wickham might be attracted to or his "taste in women". But how do we know that extends to Lizzy? How do we know - either including or excluding financial motives - that Lizzy was not in a similar boat as the other three, and that he may in fact be genuinely attracted to her?
Lizzy had no fortune, hence my supposition that he actually liked her.
Was it implied in the novel, or in any film productions, that Wickham might have had an incorrect supposition regarding Lizzy's wealth when they first met, and maybe have even researched her financial position? And, as soon as he discovered that she did not come from wealth, nor entailed to any substantial inheritance, he almost immediately gained interest in King?
His behavior to herself could now have had no tolerable motive he had either been deceived with regard to her fortune or had been gratifying his vanity by encouraging the preference which she believed she had most incautiously shewn.
If I am wrong about his regard for Lizzy, then my point remains. If money were not a factor, we have no idea what kind of woman Wickham might be attracted to. So back to the original post, calling W a pedophile is incorrect but maintaining that he is attracted to teens is just unsupported.
That was one of Lizzy’s suppositions after she reads Darcy’s letter. We don’t know if it is true and even if it is we don’t know how long Wickham kept up his attentions to Lizzy once he found out her real financial situation. (Given how quickly people learn Darcy and Bingley’s income I can’t imagine it would take him very long.) It was when Mary King suddenly inherited ten thousand pounds that he started paying attention to her instead of Lizzy.
Chapt 26: The sudden acquisition of ten thousand pounds was the most remarkable charm of the young lady to whom he was now rendering himself agreeable;
Chapter 27: "But he paid her not the smallest attention till her grandfather's death made her mistress of this fortune." "No -- why should he?..”
And then he tries to renew his attentions to Lizzy after he is separated from Mary King. I think it’s likely that he is attracted to Lizzy but only to the point that he’ll enjoy her company when there are no ladies around with more money. Which is in some ways consistent with what he does with Lydia, but on a much smaller scale, he lets Lydia run away with him but still hopes to make his fortune through marriage.
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My impression of Wickham is that he doesn't really plan ahead. He had to run away from Brighton because of his debts - if Lydia was willing to go along why not use her until he was ready to move on?
Wickham would have been considered AWOL but according to Shapard annotated edition being AWOL wasn't taken all that seriously (to paraphrase).
The minimum age that a girl could marry WITH PARENTAL CONSENT was, to my understanding, 12. This was raised to 16 in 1929, where it remains to this day.
If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.
I think you're judging by contemporary U.S. standards. Fourteen was considered the ideal age for marriage throughout most of history. Also you're probably going by the American age of consent of 18, but the U.S. is the only country in the world with an age of consent that old. Every other country it's 14 to 16.
You know a lot more about this than I do. To be honset, although I said "the world" I was really thinking only of the U.S. and Europe. The Middle East never entered my mind.
Wickham actually goes for Elizabeth first, although she is too mature to welcome any advances that are improper.
He targets Lydia because he knows her through Elizabeth and she the same way, she's young and pretty and mostly she is immature, shallow and stupid enough to welcome his advances and go along with whatever he proposes.
Until 1823, the legal age in England for marriage was 21 years--for men and women. After 1823, a male could marry as young as fourteen without parental consent, and a girl at 12. Most girls, however, married between the ages of 18 and 23, especially in the upper classes.
Until 1823, the legal age in England for marriage was 21 years--for men and women. After 1823, a male could marry as young as fourteen without parental consent, and a girl at 12. Most girls, however, married between the ages of 18 and 23, especially in the upper classes.
You are talking about marriage without the need for parental consent. If parental consent were obtained, couples could marry MUCH younger than 21 (12 for a girl and 14 for a boy). Whatismore, if parents did not approve, then they had to actively dissent once the banns had been read. If no such dissent were forthcoming, then the marriage could go ahead. This was set forth in the 1753 Marriage Act (Hardwicke).
Btw, the age for parental consent (21) was consistent from 1753 until 1969, when it was lowered to 18. The minimum age of marriage (with parental consent, don't forget) was raised to 16 for both sexes in 1929.
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I've just watched Pride and Prejudice again and thought I'd look at the reviews, so I'm quite late in replying to your post. Although the film doesn't give her age, Lydia's particular friend Mrs Forster seemed to be in a similar age range to Lydia, and looked very young in comparison to her husband Col. Forster who looked 3 times her age - so this was probably the accepted standard of that time.
I'm not sure exactly how old Mrs. Forster and Colonel Forster are supposed to be, but the book says that Mrs. Forster is "a very young woman" (Chapter 41), and I think we can safely assume that Col. Forster is quite a bit older, since it probably would have taken a while for him to attain his rank.
I also think that Mrs. Forster must be pretty immature, if she has chosen Lydia, of all people, as one of her particular friends! 😉 Col. Forster can't be much better, given that he thought someone as apparently silly as Mrs. Forster would make a good wife. Neither one is a particularly bright bulb, in my opinion.
This miniseries does a good job of depicting the Forsters, except that, in the book, it seems that they marry a bit later. In the 1995 adaptation, they are clearly already married when we first see them at Lucas Lodge. Paul Moriarty, who played Col. Forster, is about 25 years older than Victoria Hamilton, who portrayed Mrs. Forster. I think Mrs. Forster is meant to look roughly half her husband's age in this adaptation, or maybe even a little younger than that. After all, Hamilton generally looks younger than her years.
"Courage is found in unlikely places." ~ The Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien
This is from the book, and explains it a bit further:
"Wickham's affection for Lydia was just what Elizabeth had expected to find it- not equal to Lydia's for him... their elopement had been brought on by the strength of her love rather than by his; and she would have wondered why, without violently caring for her, he chose to elope with her at all, had she not felt certain that his flight was rendered necessary by distress of circumstances; and if that were the case, he was not the young man to resist the opportunity of having a companion."
It's also mentioned earlier that: "...Lydia had wanted only encouragement to attach herself to anybody. Sometimes one officer, sometimes another, had been her favourite, as their attentions raised them in her opinion." "...Wickham has every charm of person and address that can captivate a woman." "He simpers, and smirks, and makes love to us all."
So pretty much, Wickham was just doing his normal flirt act in Brighton with Lydia, who in turn believed herself in love with him; so when he had to run to escape his debts, he figured why not bring along a companion? It was just another example of his selfishness in not caring how it would affect her, since he had no intention at all in marrying her.