1. It needs to have The Shadow, and no one else.
2. The more mystery there is, the better the chance it will work!
3. The early novels are the best ones---the ones that enabled the Series to go to being printed TWICE a month!
4. Casting---how about Linus Roache?
What do you think?
1. What do you mean, no one else. No other Street & Smith heroes?
2. I agree. I'd like it if we never saw the Shadow's face. At least, not until the sequel. I also think they should film with a lot of contrast between light and shadows. Like Payback or 8 mm.
3.I haven't read many of the early novels. Which one did you have in mind.
4. This one I have to disagree with. While I'm sure he's a good actor and while I normally don't have a problem with British actors playing Americans, The Shadow is an iconic American character and should be played by an American. It would be like casting an American to play James Bond or The Doctor. It wouldn't feel right.
On the other hand, Linus Roache would be ironic. He played the father of Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins and The Shadow is sort of the father of Batman.
A Child of Time
1. Yes, the film (film series hopefully) should be just The Shadow; maybe, down the road, an "in-the-shadows" cameo in a Doc Savage movie would be neat, but the first couple of movies need to get off the ground first.
2. Yes! It's absolutely essential cinematically!!
3. "The Black Master", "Double Z", "The Black Master", "Hands in the Dark" are some of the greats!
4. An American is fine with me; I just haven't seen many around that fit the part---
Linus Roache---when I was watching "Batman Begins", I kept doing a double-take when he was on-screen----the mask-like expression would fit in pretty well, and kind of hawk-like features!
1. I agree. If they realluy have to do it, do it the way the put the Punisher in Spider-Man 2.
2. I don't think we need to worry. Sam Rami did Darkman, after all. I think it will look something like that. Maybe even taking it farther. I can only think of a few day scenes in the last movie.
3. Well, with 300+ villains/stories from the pulps alone, they shouldn't have any problems coming up with good. Were thinking of more down-to-earth-stories and something more scifi/supernatural?
4. The more I think about it, the more I know I need to change my stance. They need to pick the best person for the job. I hope he's an American. If not, so be it. As long as it's a movie worthy of the character, it won't matter either way.
Some other random thoughts.
5. If they decide to go the "cloud men's minds" root, then they shouldn't say so explicitly in the first movie. Maybe not even the second movie. Make it a rumor that the crooks whisper to each other.
6. As opposed to not showing his face at all, have him show it to main villain just before the main villain dies like in the Black Master and The Shadow's Shadow.
7.The Radio Shadow, as far as I know, never killed. Instead, he tricked his opponents into killing themselves. The Pulp Shadow killed when necessary. Either one would be fine. As long as they don't go the Batman route. I wached The Dark Knight and I loved it, and while not killing works for Batman, I think the Shadow would have just killed the Joker and be done with it.
8. Not any specific point, but since a lot of characters have borrowed from the Shadow over the years, we'll probably have to deal with people accusing the Shadow of ripping off from said characters. I don't think this film should cater to those people. Have the Shadow do what he always does and let them learn the history if they complain.
9. Do you think they should take anything from the radio show, or just stick with the pulps?
A Child of Time
DEFINITELY, they should stick with the first few years of the pulp magazine series!!! Those are the ones that made the series go to a twice-a-month schedule!!!
The radio show had interesting points---but NO WAY should they use it for the movie!
The other points--I agree!
The more mystery---the better! Robert Sampson (in his book "The Night Master" described the mind of The Shadow as "as clear as a diamond from space--and as icy--" is what they need to shoot for in the film!
other points later--caught a cold!
The more I think about it, the more I realize the Shadow has a couple of major crosses to bear in regards to a movie. First, Batman. Every Shadow fan knows Batman is a Shadow ripoff. However, the average moviegoer will probably not. They movie makers will have to be careful to differentiate from Batman while still being true the Shadow.
Second, the character means different things to different people. The Radio Shadow is millionaire Lamont Cranston with his girlfriend Margo Lane and the ability to cloud mens' minds. The Pulp Shadow *might* have been presumed-dead aviator Kent Allard, without any powers. The Movie Shadow is a weird hybrid of both.
So this movie has to satisfy the radio and pulp (and to a lesser degree, the movie) fans, not be Batman and still appeal to the average moviegoer. They way I see it, either way this movie goes, there will be very little middle ground. It will either be an amazing success or it will fail big.
With that in mind, here are my thoughts on a movie and a potential trilogy:
The '94 movie took a gamble and made the movie more like the radio show. It plays like a made-for-film radio episode. I'd gamble in the other way and make a pulp based movie. It will satisfy the pulp fans and still be recognizable as the Shadow to please the radio fans and have the mystery to intrigue the general audience.
The audience will have to be introduced to the character, so the Harry Vincent storyline from The Living Shadow might be a good idea. However, they need to be careful to make a Shadow movie and not a Harry Vincent movie. That was a complaint about the '94 movie. On the other hand, in a trilogy, the first movie could afford to see the Shadow through an agent's eyes, and bring Shadow to the center stage later on.
The transitions between the two stories would be tricky, and best left to more talented people than me. My only suggestion would doing things like have Harry go to a police station, leave and and then have the movie follow Fritz the Janitor (one of the Shadows many disguises) becomes the Shadow.
There will have to be a female lead. Give it to Myra Reldon and let her have a chance to sign. They can change the history around a bit and have her already be an agent when Harry joins. She can help him find his place in the network of spies. She can also take over to roles Margo Lane would have in the pulps, though we can make a small reference to Margo Lane in a second or third movie (i.e. Mention her name in a list of other agents when the Shadow is sending instructions.).
I personally think the Shadow should avoid romantic entanglements and focus on fighting crime. However, that may not be possible. It's expected that the hero, especially a “superhero”, have a girlfriend. If they must, I think Myra would be a better choice than Margo. However, it should be in the background and not a main focus.
It's been said before, but it cannot be stressed enough. Mystery is the key to making the Shadow interesting. He might have the ability to cloud men's minds. Then again, he might not, he might be Lamont Cranston or Kent Allard. Then again, he might be someone or something else entirely.
The movie should toy with the audience. For example, don't tell them anything about his true identity in the first movie. Don't even show the audience his face in the first movie (he could show it to the bad guys to scare them though), or maybe even the second. Convince them he's Cranston in the second and prove that he's not in the third.
In regards to his mind clouding abilities. Make that ambiguous. In The Living Shadow, there's a scene involving crooks talking about the Shadow. Have one of them say they heard the Shadow could make himself invisible. In a later movie, the could film the scene from The Whispering Eyes, where Cranston demonstrates the ability.
I think the biggest problem, in terms of audience expectations, is the topic of death. Pulp Shadow kills, Radio Shadow never actually pulls a trigger, though he often tricks the bad guys into killing themselves. The Movie Shadow contradicts himself, so who even knows where he's stands. There's also the prevailing idea that superheroes don't kill. Ever. So a Shadow that goes around killing his enemies might make the audience uncomfortable.
I think the best way to handle this is to only have the Shadow kill when necessary. If the go with Harry Vincent storyline, they could use this to create tension. He'd be grateful to the Shadow for saving his life, but not sure he wants to work for a man who's willing to use such extreme methods.
Before I talk about the story, I want to talk about the characters. The Shadow, Harry and Myra are essential and Moe Schrevitz should show up as well. Since this will be Harry's and the general audience first outing, it would be a mistake to use too many agents, tough occasionally have an extra wear an agent's ring on screen, to show the audience the Shadow has people everywhere, might be a good idea.
As for agents with parts, Claude Fellows should be present. And, like in the pulps, he should die. I can see this being the deal maker for Vincent. How the Shadow responds to the murder of his agent could help decide to throw his lot in with the Shadow.
Joe Cardona, though not an agent, should play a part, as should Commissioner Weston, though he can wait for a sequel. We should also see a few of the Shadow's disguises (i.e. Fritz)
I haven't read a pulp story yet that would make for a good movie, particularly an introduction, in and of itself. They'd have to take from different stories. And with 325+ plus pulps, they have a lot to choose from. The Shadow has fought everything from mobsters, spies and murders to mad scientists, criminal masterminds and voodoo masters.
Personally, I think it would work better if at least the first movie is more grounded. If Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull taught us anything, it's that moviegoers don't like being asked to accept too much at once. If they want to move on to more fantastic stories in later movies, they can work their way up to that.
The main villains of the trilogy should be a group like the Hand, though the don't necessarily need to be called that. In The Crime Clinic, Lamont Cranston (who pretends to be Shadow to fool Margo when she is first made an agent):
“You know, Margot, sometimes I suspect that there is one controlling mind back of the organized crime in this city-one criminal mastermind, I'm certain of it in fact. Someday, I'll find that man. Perhaps then we can talk of quitting.”
Though that man turned out to be called the Owl, a group like that could easily keep the Shadow and his small army busy across three movies, and it would leave room for other bad guys to show up and cause trouble. Other villains include:
The Time Master- And old man who escapes suspicion in crimes by having everything timed “down to the second.”
The Salamanders- A group of of robbers who light a building on fire and then march in wearing fireproof suits.
Sadi Bel-Ada- She would only work if they went ahead and gave the Shadow to ability to hypnotize people, as her power was to take away his.
Shiwan Khan and Dr. Mocquino- As the series progresses, they'd probably have to be brought in at some point, but neither are good for the first movies.
Of course, there's always a danger of the story becoming cheesy, but good script-writers should be able to keep that from happening.
One final thing, and this has nothing to with the story, just something I'd like to see as a throw away line. The Shadow pulps/radio show inspired a lot of future heroes. I'd like a reference to be made in a movie about other heroes starting to rise up. A line like “Hornets...Spiders...Bats.” I think the Shadow would express his approval/
However, I wouldn't include that if it would distract the audience from the story, which it probably would.
The world will look up and shout "save us!" And I'll whisper "no."
Excellent points. I'm just reading the pulps myself at the moment and there's this lovely scene in which Fellows is so certain that Lamont Cranston is The Shadow, only to find out he isn't when the real Cranston visits. Then we read the scene where The Shadow convinces the real Cranston to go back to Europe.
If it were my decision, I would put the audience in place of Fellows here. Have them think that The Shadow is Cranston, then show that scene with the two Cranstons towards the end. The Shadow ought to be the essence of mystery. He learned his stuff in Asia and he might have been a spy--that's all we know.
I would also like to see some combination of the pulps and radio. Reading the pulps, I actually think it is implied that The Shadow has some kind of supernatural powers. Two men will be talking in a room and one vaguely notices "a huge shadow" somewhere in a corner or underneath his companion. I think most can agree The Shadow's ability to hide and disguise himself are beyond normal reality in the pulps as well as the radio show.
As for The Shadow killing people occasionally, let's see how Watchmen does in a few months. A movie like that ought to soften people up for a good pulp hero.
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"Speak softly and carry a sakabatou."