I have been watching this series for the first time over the past couple of weeks and have enjoyed it so much. tonight i started book III and was so turned off by it that i started skipping chapters and eventually didnt even finish episode 1.
it is so horrible, and not even in line with the original story. its like they didnt want to stop after the first two parts and tried to make up something else just for the sake of it.
what a horrible dissaster! the story line is so unbelieveable and horrible i can't believe people involved in this from the beginning were willing to go along with this insane 3rd installment.
Agreed. I enjoyed the North and South and its follow-up Love and War (I think that's the title for Book II), but Heaven and Hell is just plain bad. Along with the poor story, it's also annoying that the director doesn't even try to maintain the same look of the predecessors, going instead for more aesthetic visual style by trying out different color filters (blue and gold seemed to be most heavily emphasized).
I don't want to see it! I just read that Bent kills Constance and that did it for me. I love George & Constance. Orry gets killed by him too & the worst thing that I read is that we never really get to see that Ashton pays for anything! The video stores in my area don't carry book three anyway. Now I see no need to track it down. Now my question is if anybody out there has finished Book III and can tell me what happens to Brett & Billy, Madeline, Charles and poor George?
I'm afraid I can't fully answer your question since it's been so long since I've seen it, but I remember George and Madeline get together as a couple (predictable final shot of the two of them passionately kissing), I think vowing to rebuild Mont Royal. Charles says his good-byes to George and Madeline and rides off at the end, not sure where he's going though. As for Brett and Billy, well I don't remember seeing Billy at all, but Brett makes a very brief appearance telling George that he's become too obsessed with finding Elkanah Bent. I guess we were supposed to assume she and Billy remained happily married.
Sorry I couldn't give more thorough answers. As for George and Madeline getting together, I'm not sure how the writers thought (in order to make up for Swayze not returning and having to kill off Orry) killing off Constance so that widow and widower could become a couple was somehow the satisfying ending the fans were looking for. Still, the whole George-Madeline thing doesn't really bother me as much as it does most fans.
I am not usually in favor of beating the elderly, but if John Jakes actually gave his permission to produce this turd, I'd consider a change in my philosophy. The first two installments were fantastic - I've watched them both through at least 5 times. But how in God's name Book III could have been made so stunningly terribly is beyond me.
I don't think Book III is all that bad. You just have to open your mind to the fact that it was made so long after the other two (almost 10 years after I think). I didn't like it at first, but I forced myself to watch it, and now I like it. I do agree that there are somethings they could have done better but all in all it's not so bad really.
Orry had to be killed off since Patrick wouldn't come back (or maybe they were trying to get back to the book's storyline) and Constance's death justifies George's obsession with finding and killing Bent.
I like that Madeline and George end up together. It makes sense in more than one way and I think that those two actors actually have some excellent chemistry together.
I encourage everyone to watch it with an open mind. If you haven't seen it yet then don't go on how bad everyone says it is on here, see it for yourself.
I watched it once and it was pretty bad. Just the sheer fact that Bent some how survived that explosion pretty much did it in for me.
Everything in it seemed pretty far-fetched. I think the acting just wasn't up to par compared to the first two and James Read especially was overacating.
To answer the question about Brett and Billy. We only see Brett briefly and she says they live in California.
But as far as I'm concerned it all ended at the end of Book II.
I thought it was so bad I only watched the first 30 minutes or so, got mad and sent it back to Blockbuster. Then i finished reading the books and it wasn't as bad as i originally thought.
by - Li-1 on Sat Sep 10 2005 02:46:14 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- I'm afraid I can't fully answer your question since it's been so long since I've seen it, but I remember George and Madeline get together as a couple (predictable final shot of the two of them passionately kissing), I think vowing to rebuild Mont Royal. Charles says his good-byes to George and Madeline and rides off at the end, not sure where he's going though. As for Brett and Billy, well I don't remember seeing Billy at all, but Brett makes a very brief appearance telling George that he's become too obsessed with finding Elkanah Bent. I guess we were supposed to assume she and Billy remained happily married.
Sorry I couldn't give more thorough answers. As for George and Madeline getting together, I'm not sure how the writers thought (in order to make up for Swayze not returning and having to kill off Orry) killing off Constance so that widow and widower could become a couple was somehow the satisfying ending the fans were looking for. Still, the whole George-Madeline thing doesn't really bother me as much as it does most fans. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I remember George and Madeline get together as a couple (predictable final shot of the two of them passionately kissing)I think vowing to rebuild Mont Royal. (( for their children) this is sadly true) Charles says his good-byes to George and Madeline and rides off at the end, not sure where he's going though. (back to chicogo with his new women he is changed from col to cpl to sgt) As for Brett and Billy, well I don't remember seeing Billy at all, but Brett makes a very brief appearance telling George that he's become too obsessed with finding Elkanah Bent.I guess we were supposed to assume she and Billy remained happily married. (billy is mention never seen, brett take georges kids t live with her and billy in california and you never hear of or see any of them everagain) Sorry I couldn't give more thorough answers. As for George and Madeline getting together, I'm not sure how the writers thought (in order to make up for Swayze not returning and having to kill off Orry) killing off Constance so that widow and widower could become a couple was somehow the satisfying ending the fans were looking for. Still, the whole George-Madeline thing doesn't really bother me as much as it does most fans. (very sad plot arc with gus being kiddnapped by bent ashton never really grows up or gets her come uppens the klan shows up, herrasses and is killed off stanly grows a pair, is let out of prison to get a favorable job in goverment)
When your with me your not the strangest person in the room; so go ahead, get weird on me ;-p
Brett and Billy move to California after the war and have a large family.
Madeline, after Orry is killed in the beginning of H&H (movie, not book), returns to the burned out ruins of Mont Royal and lives in a shack with former slaves. She starts a school for black children and hires a school teacher (played by Mariette Hartley). She makes enemies and the school is burned down. She and George are attracted to each other even before Constance is murdered (not in the book, it happens over a period of several years). They eventually make plans to marry. George and Charles go hunting for Bent, who has kidnapped Charles' son. They eventually find him and hang him. Charles, who can't settle down with the woman who loves him, finally grows up and realizes she is the right woman for him.
Just finished watching book 3. I watched it to the end so I knew what happened but I hated it!!
The quality of filming looked poor, the story was bad and Madeline and George getting together just upset me. They barely knew each other before this series and we are supposed to believe that they are madly in love. And not even a year since Orry and Constance were murdered! I think it just belittles the love that George and Constance / Orry and Madeline shared in the earlier episodes.
I watched the tv series 'North and South' back when it first aired in 1985. After Pactrick Swayze's death I decided to buy the series from Amazon.com and watch it again. I finished watching Book One and Book Two and had just started Book Three when I saw Cooper Main,....somebody I wasn't familiar with....so I came imdb for some clarification. Reading these posts certainly explained a lot to me. I can say that for now I agree with most posters that this series was a bad idea.....but, I think I'm going to finish watching it anyhow. Certainly I'm now turned off by a new guy playing Charles Main but maybe he'll grow on me. And what happened to the pretty black girl....Simi something or other? When Book 2 ended she was with Madeline......and now I see ...Jane?
I`ve just bought book 1 and 2 on dvd, and while taking a break from watching them (I simply love them) a find out that there is a book 3... and when I read whats going on in it, it makes me feel sick... talk about being heart-broken. I have read the two books the first two series are made from, but not the rest of them.
So I have to ask: Does Orry really get killed in the book as well, or does this just happen in the series because of the fact that Swayze didnt want to participate (something I completely agree with him on). Does anybody know this?
I'm reading Book II right now and I'm only about a third of the way through it. But I read on another IMDB message board that Orry is killed in the second book. It really makes me sad and I think is one reason that I haven't been pushing myself to read the book faster. It's almost like if I don't read about it, Orry won't really die.
Yes, Orry is killed towards the end of Love and War. Book III wouldn't have been so bad if the character of Cooper Main who is quite a large part in the first two novels, had been included in the mini-series. Alas he wasn't and that leaves the third part (mini-series) looking such a mess.
Ok so I've only watched the series and when Cooper Main showed up in the third one I had no idea who he was. So can anyone tell me what he did in the novels that they never showed in the mini-series? and is he the oldest or was Orry? Also this website has the part of Constance casted so does she ever show up in the third part?
He was a merchant-type. He owned ships, and they lived in Charleston. So when the first battle of the Civil War happens, he's in the middle of it, and he and his family have to leave and return to Mount Royal
Orry dies in the War in Book II. Bent does kill Constance, and George and Madeleine do get together in Book III. So the tv series does follow the book somewhat. But I also hated what Jakes did to Constance in the book.
For some reason, 'Book III' doesn't FEEL like it's set in 1865-1868. The other two miniseries were so well-done that you can actually feel like you're looking at a documentary about life in antebellum South Carolina or facing a Union regiment at Antietam. The third installment simply looks cheap, like it was shot wholly in a back lot at a movie studio. They obviously didn't have the cash to do a bang-up job.
I watched book 1 and i couldnt wait to get stuck into book 2 i wanted more so i got book 3 and all i can say is i wish i hadn't
The filming look like something from The Sting with black and white photos telling you where you were watching
a lot of the actors had changed again poor Jonathan Frakes he got 3 different wives during the 3 book run and what happen Book one and two he was a wimp in book three he is in Will Riker mode
and the ending sucked big time im off to have my memory removed of this nasty installment
jonathan frakes played the character with more more experience as an actor..however im sure stanley got sick of being the "baby". He finally gives isabell the boot and grew some guts.
Really, I thought it wasn't THAT bad. I missed my Billy and Brett and Constance, & Maddie and George make me want to hurl when they hook up, but M&G do make a nice couple.
"Just remember, you're my friend and I love you." +Billy Hazard
I've been watching this series annually since I was 5 years old (I'm 19 now) and I LOVE it!!! But when I got the set on DVD and started watching Book 3, I was disgusted. What were they thinking?! They should have just stopped after Love and War!
I have read all three books, and the third one is different certainly than the first two. Books: Orry is killed (Shot in the back of the head by a sitting wounded Union soldier he had stopped to help) Mr. Jakes has no qualms about killing his heroes in his books. But Orry Main, the paragon of virtue and all things heroic, I think was terribly shocking in the book, not just to those of you who have seen only the TV series. Now here is the best advice anyone can give you: "Read the book!" That has been BEYOND TRUE for any movie I have ever seen. So many important details, the real intellectual challenge of reading important details for 20+ hours can never be done justice in a 2 hour movie. Not even in a 30-hour mini-series like North & South.
But that's not why I was compelled to write. Here are some answers to some of the questions here. Book 3 in the TV series is a huge disappointment after the big-budget treatment of the first 2 parts. But stick with it, I don't think it's as bad as people think. Yes, it's terrible when you realize Orry is killed, and just as bad when the most beautiful and angelic Constance is killed, but she was killed just like that in the book, too. Also shocking! Bent is the soap-operaesque returning villain that never dies, just as in the books. Billy and Brett move to San Francisco and are never in book 3, which is also sad. Obviously in 3 Jakes wants to move on, partly because of time and history. You are now in the old west with Charles and his adventures. I thought Charles in the first 2 was a really lame choice for actors. The second Charles is much more handsome and studly like the Charles of the book in my opinion. Anyway, I hope that wasn't too much rambling, soap-boxing or long to help. The books are fantastic, some of the best I've ever read, great mix of drama and history. Maybe a little to soap-operaesque, but hey, that turned into one of the great mini-series ever, maybe the best.
I just finished watching the first two N&S books, but I'm passing on the third one.
And, for the first time in my life, I'm breaking my rule and not reading the original N&S books. Honestly, I liked the first two and how it ended so much, I'm keeping it that way for now. ;) (though I know the storylines of the books, I did a lot of research)
I got all of the following in the first 17 minutes of viewing.
The opening credits highlight clips from the original series and the new series, they look off from each other. Narration is annoying for some reason. Acting is horrible from Barber and Casnoff, its like they forgot their characters, to the point they cant do souther accents anymore. Both are much hammier than in previous movies. Actor driving the carriage was clearly not driving a carriage. Bent makes mention of "Charlie" Main and what happened between them in Texas, even though we never saw or heard about it before. Too much soft focus on the females. The Clip of Patrick Swayze as Orry clearly doesnt belong with everything else. The murder scene is cheesy and had too little build up. As was the assault of Ashton on Bent. Its not very clear they are in Charleston. The establishing shots they do have are cheap, single frame photos. George looks odd with much more grey hair than at the end of the last movie, even though its only a couple months later in movie time. His lack of beard looks even stranger. His voice is considerably different even though it was only a few years after the last movie. Constance seems to forget she was Irish, again its only been a couple months since the end of the war and last time she still had a normal Irish accent. Almost all decisions are made in haste and with little supporting motivation, again because they cut too much material. Charles lost his accent, and about 10 years off his face. I dont mind them finding a different actor, but another southern fella would have done better, particularly one who didnt look like a kid. The girlfriend (Willa) comes off as particularly stilted, not naive as she's supposed to be. Acting from the rest of the supporting cast is even worse. The theater players subplot is not at all fleshed out, and what we see is quite boring. The colors in most shots are annoyingly warm, it stands out when the previous movies were more natural or cold. Peter O'Toole playing a drunken fool was already overdone in 1994. The cheap fade-ins are worse than the cheap establishing shots. Mont Royal does not look anything like Mont Royal, it didnt have that crescent drive in front of it, that was further down the road. Bringing cooper back after being missing for two movies (and expecting us to just roll with it) was especially annoying.
Again, weird lighting on Madelines face, she always has that Star Trek face thing going on. Hammy acting from Madeline and Cooper (though Robert Wagner was known for this). Charles somehow looks EVEN younger when he goes to the play, his outfit very obviously switches multiple times during the night (why he'd wear his field outfit and not his blues to a formal event I cannot imagine). They went super cheap and cut in pieces of film they will use again later. Never felt any warmth between Charles and Willa at all. The overly warm film doesn't help a bit. Cliff Deyoung was laughable as a racist redneck. In fact in this movie more than others, its painfully obvious the yankees cant play southerners. The rather direct way people narrate seems off-putting in a movie, again owing to the limited budget and inability to show everything on the screen. Dialog is especially clunky between Madeline and the former slaves. Horrid sound effects. A slap sounds like a side of beef being stuck with a sledge hammer. Almost everyone seems to be struggling to show emotion. The chemistry between George and Madeline might have seemed more natural if it hadn't been so long since the last movie. Leslie Ann-Down seems to forget her southern accent and swap to English frequently. Bent getting amnesia was classic soap opera and stupid as hell. Georges dialog is stilted throughout much of the first movie, and his little speeches are just annoying. The music isn't great, and the cue's are especially inappropriate. Some people had such small roles its almost a wonder they bothered to include them at all. Constance and Brett come to mind.
Constances chemistry with George was so weak I dont think either of them cared when she died. The lightning storm thing was incredibly cheesy and out of place for the series which was normally too good for that. Georges acting was over the top hammy when he found Constance. They never explained what happened to the mother. Again this is only supposed to be a couple months after the end of the last one so they should have done something. Music at beginning and end stinks. I think they lost the rights to the good music and had to make up something similar on short notice. Ending credits are just as cheap as the opening.