MovieChat Forums > Friends (1994) Discussion > Phoebe was never a real main character

Phoebe was never a real main character

posted 8 years ago by sierra17
30 replies | jump to latest

I mean she never got much. She was always there and had plots but they never carried over to new episodes. But for three tines:

-David: he pops up in episodes here and there

-the triplets: this plot was only added because Lisa got pregnant. Making one of the rare plots that carry over to a new episode.

-Mike: the only real continuing Plot for Phoebe.

I know many people don't like Phoebe amd everything but her character was basically just used to get to point A to B sometimes or for a joke.

She never got the proper time the other characters did. Like Rachel got like 3 episodes of being on the hospital giving birth but Phoebe got one. Chandler and Monica got countless episodes of engagement, wedding planning and the actual wedding. Ross and Emily even got a handful of episodes for all that. Where Phoebe only got two maybe three.

[–] jastrait78 8 years ago

I never felt like she was but yes she's just always there.

[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

i disagree. i think she was the most amusing of the friends, and was definitely a main character. i don't care that she didn't get many cotninuing storylines, which are rather a bore anyway. she was so funny. it's supposed to be a sitcom, not a soap.

[–] JestersDead (485) 8 years ago

Ahhh jumping to her defence. She was easily the most replaceable, that much I know.

[–] Painbow 8 years ago

She was the least important (closely followed by Joey) but worked well as part of the ensemble.

Forum of choice - https://www.imdforums.com

[–] kristen1165 8 years ago

I think she got equal screen time as the other five, but Rachel was right, she did lift right out !

[–] sierra17 8 years ago

True that she got equal screen times. But I feel her plots weren't as important as the others. Okay that might sound silly. I just mean she rarely got the serious carry over plot line.

[–] SilverLexiGirl 8 years ago

Semi-agree....lol

Phoebe was definitely a main character in that she was in every episode, always had some kind of storyline, and of course was SO entertaining that not having her there would have weakened the show.

But she wasn't one of the four characters who got to be in a serious and dramatic relationship with another main character. Thus, her storylines, like Joey's, were sometimes big, continuous, serious, etc...But she was still on her own in them. With Ross/Rachel and Chandler/Monica, they all got storylines with double the power, since they were coupled.

If any of them had never slept with each other, they would have all been equal.

[–] hka-3 (28) 8 years ago

Replying to an "old" thread here...

>> "Chandler and Monica got countless episodes of engagement, wedding planning and the actual wedding. Ross and Emily even got a handful of episodes for all that. Where Phoebe only got two maybe three."
---

...and Phoebe's wedding didn't end a season and/or begin a season like with other character's weddings. I didn't notice that until someone on the IMDb board pointed it out (maybe it was the OP :D).

There was the continuing story of Phoebe's relationship with Frank Jr., but without the need for her real life pregnancy to be written in, we may have only seen Frank Jr., in one or two episodes, total. I wonder if we would've seen Phoebe's grandmother in other episodes if Audra Lindley (Mrs. Roper) hadn't passed away :(

Another one to add to your list: Phoebe didn't get a long term romantic relationship with one of the other main characters. Even Joey kind of had a thing going with Rachel for multiple episodes.

Edit: There however was the tendency for Phoebe and Joey to "play favorites" with one-another and the hints (such as times that they kissed) that their friendship could possibly turn into something more.

[–] vegan_voorhees (383) 8 years ago

I once read the shoe was created with four leads in mind - Monica, Rachel, Joey, and Ross - and that Chandler and Phoebe would be recurring, but I guess they liked Matthew Perry so much they made his main, and then decided to level that out with Phoebe as well.

She was pushed aside a lot, but perhaps her character was the least 'relative' as she's kind of an outsider being a bit of a hippie, whereas the others are a bit more relatable. She was my favorite though, but I only truly loved Seasons 1&2 anyway.

Ross was the one I wish was gone. Whiny, manipulative, condescending, unapologetically mean to the others (usually the women) repeatedly and yet was afforded the Romeo role. As if.

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

Nonsense. Ross was a great guy who did his best to help out his friends. Phoebe was actually the one who was manipulative and mean to others. Did you even watch the show beyond the pilot?

[–] vegan_voorhees (383) 8 years ago

I watched the whole ten years.

Recently re-watched the first two seasons, and Ross's unending campaign to sabotage Rachel's relationships for his own gain, including brushing off Phoebe's legitimate concerns over their friendship because it stood in his way of getting Rachel - what a stand-up guy.

I saw the one where the monkey escaped the other day and he was so incredibly nasty to Rachel over it and, even when she rectified the situation, he never apologised to her.

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

If you watched the first two seasons, then you would've seen how Rachel acted like a biatch to Julie and tried to sabotage that relationship. If you watched the whole 10 years you would also have seen how she tried to sabotage his relationships with Emily and Bonnie. Her actions were much worse than the little lie Ross told Paolo about there bring a thing between him and Rachel.

Ross was absolutely right to be upset about Rachel losing the monkey. Why should he apologize? She was a complete biatch during the poker game, even after Ross let her win. And she never apologized either. She, Phoebe and, to a lesser degree, Joey were constantly nasty to the others without ever apologizing.

Yep, Ross was a stand up guy, he showed it many times throughout the show.

[–] vegan_voorhees (383) 8 years ago

Why have you switched to bashing Rachel now?

The show became quite lame after the first two years (once they all started demanding higher paychecks) so I've never been back to those episodes chronologically - but Ross *never* really amended his petty behaviour as far as I saw - he remained whiny and condescending throughout.

Why I'm caring to debate fictional people not seen on TV for over a decade is a mystery. I'm going outside.

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

I'm not bashing Rachel at all. You brought up Ross' "nasty" behavior towards Rachel, so I'm pointing out her nasty behavior towards him. I just disagree with singling out only Ross for his jerky behavior.

Ross had his whiny moments throughout the show, just like the others had their annoying moments (like constantly making fun of Ross' career and interests.) But if anyone never amended for their bitchy behavior, it was Phoebe because the writers thought bitchy Phoebe was funny.

And the show was great for the first 5 seasons, after that it went downhill.

[–] vegan_voorhees (383) 8 years ago

Never once thought Phoebe was bitchy.

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

Really??? She would insult people all the time, complete strangers but most of all Chandler. She would also use her mother's suicide to manipulate her supposed friends. She was also a hypocrite who didn't keep to her own morals and values but did judge and condemn the others.

[–] vegan_voorhees (383) 8 years ago

Pretty similar to the flaws I see in Ross.

Also, Chandler is very bitchy. Though being a man I guess it's called witty or quippy?

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

Ross continuously insulted Chandler? He used a childhood trauma to get sympathy from his friends? He berated his friends for not living up to his morals? That doesn't sound like Ross at all.

Chandler was sarcastic and self-deprecating. He insulted himself much more than others. Although he did have his jerky moments, just like the others. No idea what gender has to do with it.

[–] vegan_voorhees (383) 8 years ago

When and how did she use her childhood trauma to get sympathy? Genuine question.

All of the cast mock one another at some point: Monica's OCD, Joey's lack of intellect, Chandler's is he/isn't he sexuality - yet it's viewed as bitchy when the females do it, and a joke/banter when the men do it. That's how gender relates here.

Phoebe is bitchy, but Ross's scheming is somehow ok?

This sums up a lot of my thoughts on why I dislike his character:

http://www.anamardoll.com/2012/09/deconstruction-why-i-dislike-ross-geller.html

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

How about that ridiculous episode in which Phoebe wanted to keep a girl's cat because it was supposedly the reincarnation of her mother. And everybody made Ross out to be the bad guy because he told her the truth. She even used her mother's suicide to get a guy's phone number and the last muffin. There are several moments like that throughout the show.

Never said Ross' "scheming" was okay, but Phoebe was way more often bitchy and manipulative than any of the others. I certainly don't see why he should be singled out.

That link is ridiculous, the author sounds like a special kind of snowflake. I could hardly make it through the paragraph complaining about laugh tracks. Talk about whiny and pretentious. It seems all hate for Ross goes back to him having "wronged" Rachel and that he doesn't "deserve" her. Well, they completely ignore all the crap she pulled. Ross isn't honest about his feelings? Hmm, how about Rachel not being able to make up her mind about how she feels about Ross? She only seems to want him when he's unavailable. So you either accept that's part of a romantic comedy that was stretched over 10 years or you simply don't watch the show because you would have to be constantly annoyed by BOTH their behavior. Why the different standards? So it does have to do with gender???

For the life of me I never understood any hate for Ross. Call him whiny, the guy did get screwed over one too many times and did not exactly have luck on his side.

[–] vegan_voorhees (383) 8 years ago

...because people are different, I think is the only answer to not understanding why people don't like him? Like speaks to like, just as dislike does.

The cat episode: She was reacting to his criticism of her situation. That was one of the more honest moments in the whole series - she wasn't nasty to him at all, she asked him if he knew what it was like to lose a parent. She didn't call him names or an insensitive a-hole, just put him on the spot and asked flat out why he couldn't accept her loopy little belief about the cat.

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

Not the kind of irrational hate displayed by the author of that article. Because he isn't honest about his feelings a handful of times throughout the show? Really. Just forget about how the others lied and cheated....

What I said is that she used her childhood trauma to get sympathy. She was a total bitch for wanting to keep a little girl's cat because of her ridiculous belief that it was the reincarnation of her mother. She knew fully well what she was doing, but somehow it was okay because her mother committed suicide. She and the others made Ross feel bad and guilty simply for stating the truth.

[–] vegan_voorhees (383) 8 years ago

This is where our definitions of what a 'total bitch' differ.

She gave the cat back. She didn't rip Ross a new one for his behaviour, merely - calmly - stated her position by reminding him of her reasons. A bitch move would be to stand there smiling and calling him a weak little man and continually insult his intellect, while laughing maniacally.

Perhaps you can describe how she would go about explaining her reasons re: the cat in (what you think is) an un-bitchy way?

You're clearly stubbornly Team Ross, I can't add anymore and, conversely, can't be convinced to think any better of him based on any of your examples.

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

Again, I said she used her childhood trauma to gain sympathy, not that it was an example of her bitchy behavior. But it was pretty bitchy because she knew that the cat belonged to a girl and knew that it most likely was not an a reincarnation of her mother and only returned it after a lot of whining and fussing, while making Ross feel bad about being a realist.

Un-bitchy? How about immediately returning the cat and admitting Ross is completely right and that she was acting way too emotionally and immature.

I'm "stubborn" and on "team Ross" because I don't have some irrational hatred of Ross that's based on nothing more than some weird notion that he isn't "honest about his feelings"? Wow, you sound just like condescending Ross! All I did was disagree that Ross was the manipulative and mean one on the show.

Based on your agreement with that (pretty sexist) article, I can only assume you have some obsessive adoration for perfect goddess Rachel. How dare the writers give her a happy ending with Ross! She and Joey are the super couple!

[–] veganvoorhees (4) 8 years ago

Stubborn was not meant as an insult.

I have no real feelings towards Rachel - in fact I'd say she ranks 4th or 5th for me. The article just cemented what I don't like about Ross.

Back to Phoebe though, I'm still at a loss as to how she 'used' her background in the cat example? It was the definitive answer, she didn't just magic it up out of nowhere to make him feel bad, it was the truth of the situation for her. If she spilled coffee on him and he shouted at her and then she brought up her dead mother then yes, that'd be using it unfairly, but not when she seemingly genuinely believes the cat is her mother.

And she should admit he was right when he clearly wasn't? Their HER feelings to have, not his to dictate and tell her they're incorrect, she has every right to them.

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

He wasn't right to tell her that it's ridiculous to basically steal a cat from a little girl because of the silly belief it might be a reincarnation of her mother? If he had been "supportive" like the others she would never have given it back. He was just trying to make her realize that the cat belonged with the girl and not her.

Phoebe even admitted she could be wrong. But even if she was 100% convinced it was her mother, she should've admitted she was acting egotistical and immature by wanting the keep the cat from her owner. But instead she whines about her trauma (which she only ever brings up when she wants something) to make Ross feel bad about telling her the truth. In the end she actually does exactly what Ross told her to do, but only after turning the tables on him and making him out to be the bad guy. Not only does he have to apologize to her and the cat, he also has to acknowledge that it's her mother, even though it goes against his own beliefs. It's ridiculous. She was in the wrong.

If there's no excuse for Ross' behavior, then there's also no excuse for Phoebe's behavior.

[–] veganvoorhees (4) 8 years ago

I think whining about the suicide of your own mother when you are a child is permitted.

Wasn't it one of the others who makes him apologise to the cat?

This is all stupid. It's a frickin sitcom.

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

Not when you use it to keep a little girl's cat or to get a guy's phone number or the last muffin. Her mother had been dead for 20 years or something, that's not a mature way to deal with it. She knew Ross was right, that's why she eventually returned the cat.

Rachel proposed it, Phoebe wholeheartedly agreed with it.

Hey, I simply disagreed that Ross was as manipulative and mean as you made him out to be and pointed out that Phoebe was worse. You don't want to discuss it? Fine by me.

[–] veganvoorhees (4) 8 years ago

To quote Phoebe: "No need to get all squinky about it."

[–] Stratego (30497) 8 years ago

I'm gonna go with Monica:

That's not even a word...