For all of you who want them to end up together...
Mary: Colin I just relised, we're cousins!
So it would be weird for them to fall in love. ALSO, why even think of colin when you have dickon? the manliest rugged yorkshire guy alive... or at least he was in the GHS 2007 Cast of "THE SECRET GARDEN".
There's a movie called... Back to the Secret Garden I think and it's got Camilla Belle in it. In that one Mary ended up marrying Colin. I always imagined she ended up with Dickon tho.
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She married Colin? That is strange. I don't think they are very well suited from what I can tell. Although I think I prefer Colin as a character, if she had to end up with either one of them it should have been Dickon!
It was uber common for cousins to marry when the book is set, especially in the upper class as they didn't want their great blood contaminated by families from lower classes. Take royalty, because royalty can only marry royalty all European royalty is totally inbred. William, Harry and the Queen are all products of centuries of inbreeding. lol
The book and movie set in about 1905...it was actually normal practice until about the after WW1.
But yeah, I also thought that Mary and Dickon were way more suited to each other. Isn't it strongly implied they will end up together, both in the movie and book? Thats the impression I got.
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FDR and Eleanor were barely related. FDR was 5th cousin of Eleanor's father...which I guess would make them sixth cousins or something. Not first cousins.
sn't it strongly implied they will end up together, both in the movie and book?
No, not at all in the book. What specific examples in the text made you think that? She likes Dickon very much but there is nothing romantic about it, nor any hint as to her possible future feelings.
why do you think there is any kind of birth defects? its because we are all related. no two people are no more then 50th cousins. thats why any normal couple will have a 2 to 3% chance of producing a child with a birth defect. those numbers increase as you get closer in relations 1st cousins have a bout a 5% chance and siblings and closer have a 7% chance.
You need to watch the movie better. Colin suggests they might get married and Mary says that is not possible, they are cousins. Colin says he wants them to be together forever and Mary says they are.
Maybe that is ultimetly why the human race is getting so sick! Because after a hundred years of not marrying your cousins, we have gotten fat, dumb and sick!
I would never marry one of my cousins.. they arent very good looking!
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not consimating with cousins doesnt make us fat, sick or dumb. *rolls eyes* There was likely an imbalence of genetic inheritance along the way. I still think its sick. Especially the risks of genetic/medical problems it causes.
there is hardly a risk of genetic problems. infact it is only around 1 or 2% then non related couples its sucha low chance that many genetisists believe that there is no logical reason to tell cousins they cant marry its brothers and sisters and mothers and sons and fathers and daughters who have a higher chance of genetic problems
lol did you know that you can marry your cousin and not have to worry about genetic problems. you have the same amount of chances to have a child witha birth defect when breeding witha cousin as you do with someone not related to you
It was fairly common in that time period for cousins to marry. At the time, I had a huge thing for Dickons and always wanted him to end up with Mary. But as an adult and having watched the film again, I found myself more interested in Colin and his expressive eyes! There is something so sweet and endearing about him that now I would prefer him to end up with Mary. However, aren't Mary and Colin's mothers twin sisters? If so, that would make them more than 1st cousins, genetically, their relationship would be like half brother/sister as their mothers would've been clones of each other, therefore making only their fathers different.
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However, aren't Mary and Colin's mothers twin sisters? If so, that would make them more than 1st cousins, genetically, their relationship would be like half brother/sister as their mothers would've been clones of each other, therefore making only their fathers different.
I agree with that, their mothers have the exact same genetic makeup, so Colin and Mary basically have half of their genes the exact same, making them more like half-siblings. You are correct.
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Yes, Mary and Master Colin are cousins, but I don't think that would've stopped them from marrying each other. It was extremely common in those days. Furthermore, Mary had to marry someone with status, wealth and influence. As we can all plainly see, Colin is rich as Rockefeller (just check out his dressing gown in one of the scenes) and as the son of the local landowner, he already has status. No woman in Mary's time would've married below her status. It was unheard of. If you did, you stood a damn good chance of being kicked out of your family.
I disagree with that. He seemed very jealous of Dickon in the swing scene, and if that's any indication of how he feels about them as an adult, I think he would have cast them out in anger & jealousy.
you are an idiot because the term is actually monozygotic twins. identical twins was a term to describe identical apearences as medical tech had developed doctors could tell that just because there is an identical apearance doesnt mean they are truely identical infact in most cases of monozygotic twins. the twins are not truely identical but simply monozygotic twins. so more and likely mary and collins mothers where just monozygotic twins who apeared to be identical but not truely genetically identical which would make mary and collin just cousins
there mothers are twins but that doesn't mean they are genetically siblings. the mothers are never said to be identical they are said to be twins and they look identical but that doesn't mean they are identical also in the books her father was his mothers brother and they were not twins
Going to the book, not the movie which changes the book, Mary's father and Colins mother were brother and sister. And no, the relationship between Mary and Collin was more like brother and sister.
The idea of Colin and Mary together really grosses me out but not just because they were cousins. I got the impression that the three of them (Lord Craven, Colin and Mary) would become a real family at the end of the story and that Mary and Colin would becomes like siblings. I can't see them ever getting together. I like the idea of Dickon and Mary together but I understand that it would not be realistic for the setting. Here's what I think would be better for a movie epilogue: Not long after WWI, Mary and her adopted brother Colin return to their old home. They meet with Martha who is very happy to them but the mood turns grim when Dickon is mentioned. He was killed in the war, preferably in a heroic way. It's not explicitly said but we see from looks and gestures that Mary was in love with Dickon but they never got together because of the class difference. It ends with the three putting up a dedication to Dickon in the garden. Speaking of the royal family being inbred, I think Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip are second cousins, or something. They're both descended from Queen Victoria at least. Interestingly enough, Princess Alice, Phillip's great-grandmother, was played by Kate Maberly in the tv movie Victoria and Albert.
The British Royal Family...and indeed, almost every royal house in Europe, is inbred. Royals and nobles were only ever allowed to marry other royals and nobles, so stock got so mixed and diluted that if you traced through the family tree, everyone was quite literally related to everyone else, either through blood or marriage.
This may be a BIT less prevelent these days, but in the past, inbreeding was everywhere. WWI was basically a huge, royal family fued.
It's not so much that they're cousins that bother me... it's that their mothers were identical twin sisters, making their DNA even more closely related, giving their children a much higher chance of having problem. It would be like mating with a sibling. This would also give the whole story a very creepy factor in that Mary looked exactly like Colin's mother... so it would be as if he married his mother.
This, of course, was the movie and not the book.
Back to the Secret Garden was not a sequel to this movie. This is important to know because in the book, Mary and Colin were not related through twin mothers, but through Colin's mother and Mary's father.
The book was about three young, innocent children and it was not implied that Marry would end up with one in particular. There were hints to both, but nothing concrete. Only the author herself knows for sure.
In this movie, it was made very clearly for us that Mary was meant to end up with Dickon, as they clearly liked each other. The line Mary says to Colin, "but we're cousins!" is an anachronism, since a little girl in 1905 would not have thought it strange for two cousins to be married. I think that line was added for the screenwriter to further push her idea of Mary ending up with Dickon.
As far as Dickon going off to war... this is highly unlikely to have happened to a character like Dickon. A poor farmboy who likes to garden and talk to flowers would most likely not enlist in the army. Also, he was about 21 years old at the time, so it's most likely he was settled with a job and family by WWI and it would not have been expected of him to leave it all to fight. The draft wouldnt have applied to him.
Although Mary and Dickon came from very different walks of life, it was not unheard of to cross those lines. It wasn't as common as it is today, but it wasn't unheard of. As it was, Archibald's wife was very kind to the poorer families, Dickon's included. I think that despite Dickon being from a poor family, Archibald would have approved.
The idea of Colin and Mary ending up together came to mainstream light in the 1987 Hallmark made for tv version of the movie, which had Colin Firth appearing as Colin Craven in an epilogue that did not exist in the book. In this version, he and Mary ended up together and Dickon was killed in the war. Back to the Secret Garden, with Camilla Belle, was most likely written with this version in mind.
I agree that it was a more acceptable practice for first cousins to marry in the Victoria era. It's been years since I read the book, but as others mentioned, Mary and Colin were written as ordinary first cousins.
In the movie, it is squickier because Mary and Colin, as the children of identical twin sisters, are genetically half-siblings. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think even in that time period, it would be considered appropriate for 2nd degree relatives to marry.
I however view the Mary and Colin scenes rather innocently. Colin was spoilt and used to being the centre of attention which is why he was acting jealous when Mary and Dickon were concentrating on each other at the swings. I think the ending illustrates that the Lennox/Craven family has been reintegrated, and Mary and Colin will be living like brother and sister with Archibald.
"Second of all...I absolutely 100% cannot imagine Dickens going to war and killing other human beings! He loves life, nature, etc...
Third of all, the boy is a genius out in the open wild, just imagine how efficient he would be in the war? He wouldn't be whining about wet boots or little food. The kid would find his own food.
If someone like Dickens were to die in war, then I must be a pirate. I can't think of an Englishman better suited for the campy life of war than Dickens. Another rubbish reason why killing off Dickens always seemed like the most illogical thing I've ever heard. It's just a way for bad fanfiction writers to hook two characters up or to "go dark" with the characters..."
Just because somebody doesn't want to go to war and isn't meant for it, doesn't mean that they never do. If that was the case, a lot less people would have gone to war. Often they went because they had no choice, especially if they were from a lower class like Dickon was. By the way, did England have a draft for World War One? Canada did. If so, Dickon could have been drafted.
P.S. I'm both amused and disturbed that you seem to think that World War One trench warfare was like camping.
It was the early 1900s. That was totally normal and socially acceptable, if not encouraged among the "blue bloods". They didn't yet understand that inbreeding creates horribly sick or mentally challenged offspring.
The movie Back to The Secret Garden is a sequel to the 1987 hallmark version of The Secret Garden. In that version Mary and Colin are not cousins, their families were just good friends.
It would probably be more common to marry cousins in rural areas, where there is less chance to meet someone. In Wuthering Heights doesn't Catherine marry two of her cousins? One from her father's side and one from her mother's? And in Pride & Prejudice Mr Collins intends to marry one of the Bennett sisters, to whom he's related
This film does seem to support Mary/Dickon though. When Colin asks to marry her, she says "but we're cousins". And he only shows romantic subtext towards her and never in reverse. The swing scene definitely ships Mary and Dickon, with Colin getting very jealous