First of all, I must say that I'm not promoting the use of gratuitous love scenes in a film. On the contrary, it's sometimes refreshing to see that, just because they've been placed in extraordinary situations,two characters don't always end up in bed. So Denzel and Julia's relashionship (or lack thereof) didn't bother me until I read the book and not only do Gray Grantham and Darby have an affair in the original story, but Gray Grantham is White in the book! I'm not making accusations but am I the only one who has been puzzled by that change?
Hollywood definitely doesn´t allow an affair between a black guy and a white woman. At most, the girl might be from latin origin. See other movies, like Hitch (Will Smith / Eva Mendez) or Boat Trip (Cuba Gooding Jr. / Roselyn Sanchez).
I remember seeing a special about Denzel a few years ago on Bravo, where they interview all of his leading ladies. In the interview with Julia, she revealed that it was Denzel who refused to do the love scenes. Julia also admitted that not only was she disappointed, but she was looking foward to them. However, she understood the pressure that Denzel was under in his community. In 1992, Denzel was our only leading Black man. Men like Lawrence and Wesley were more or less Indy actors, so this was right before they broke out, Will was still doing his tv show, Don was unknown, as was Terrence and so on. So the pressure was solely on Denzel. Needless to say, we black women in the Black Community have loosened our grip on our black men, because I too would have liked to see those scenes featured in the movie.
I hate to generalize, but yes, that is precisely what I am saying. In '92 and even now in '06, there was and, to a degree, still is a stigma about Black men and white women. Back then it was percieved by the black community that successful black men with white wives or girlfirends were with them because they [white women] were a symbol of a black man's success. Denzel was in a tight spot that has surely loosened but, never the less, still exist. It was because he was our only Black Lead in the movies then. However, that same year, The Bodyguard came out and, though I remember a few comments about race concerning that movie, it was a whisper compared to the uproar that The Pelican Brief caused.
Not to say that this wasn't true for both sides of the coin. As you can see, then and now there are white people out there who obviously have a problem with interracial relations. But in this particular instance, yes, it was the black community that prevented those scenes being featured in the movie. Denzel felt he had to preserve black pride and honor Black women [which, though now it seems misguided, I am greatful for] and not partake in sex scenes with Julia Roberts.
yes, I do. Most of African Americans' concepts and Ideals are a result of us being treated as second class citizens for so long. Though slavery is far from the predicament we find ourselves in these days, the mentality still exist because we have to work so hard to get ahead. I do admit however, that things are far easier now than they were ten to fifteen years ago. The Afican American Woman's ideals have evolved as well. As we gain power both economically and socially, we are realizing that we don't necessarily have to have to settle on the hope that we may find that perfect African American Male to complete our American dream; by doing so we are limiting ourselves and cutting our selves short. Especially when you consider that not only are there more women than men generally, but because of setbacks, both internal and external, there are even fewer in our ethnic group that meet the criteria of what we value in a mate. I guess you can say that our ideal male hard to come by. So now, we ahve widened the proverbial pond with so many varieties of fish.
That has always been one thing that I have respected & admired about Denzel! But I would say to him now to not hold back in his chosing of good roles if it involves an interracial relationship! Why, because many black actresses aren't holding back at all because they say they need the work and I understand that. After all, it's about the money & the art. I feel that Denzel shouldn't hold back in his future roles(unless his wifey gets involved...lol).
"It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it."
Its not the same as in A Few Good Men. In the book, the Pelican Brief the protagonists did have a sexual relationship. The movie strayed away from that because of interracial politics, pure and simple.
Thank you for your articulate responses in this thread,euridycespike1. I came here with questions about why Denzel would not do love scenes with white women. I heard about this years ago, and because I was too young to understand I just thought he was racist. Now I am comfortable with his choices, and I admire what a strong role model Denzel is for African-American's. Very respectable. Again Thanks.
The whole idea of interracial relations never occurred to me, and Denzel Washington's attitude was a revelation. I thought the fact that his character and Julia Roberts never had sex kind of made this movie. A romantic relationship would have been so predictable. Instead it's really a friendship and made the ending a lot more poignant, when the two shake hands and then hug each other. You see the mutual caring and respect they have. Sometimes less is more and makes a story unique. I didn't read the book nor do I wish to, I like this movie ending better.
I'm a black man & this is one of many reasons I have so much respect for Denzel.He cares about his community & knowing that black actors are role models for their people it's understandable that he didn't want to participate in these scenes.Denzel basically said that "He told Julia it wasn't personal issue,but sisters wouldn't like it".He refused to kiss white actresses in "Mighty Quinn" & "Virtuosity" as well.The only time he did it,was in "Malcolm X' (historical facts required it) & in "He got game" (Mila Jovovich anybody?).
Not really a racism issue but one of political correctness which I understand is rife in USA and is also in Britain. it made me smile when I heard Denzel ask for a dark coffee in the film. I've NEVER heard it described as such in any British drama film etc. We still say black coffee in Britain and I wondered if that is a completely taboo word in the USA when ordering a coffee.
Denzel staying true to his 'black ideals' is not true at all. He had severazl sexual scenes that I recall with Milla Jockovich in He Got Game, made only 5 years later. I don't know, maybe its because he was working with Spike Lee, but I don't think it was so much that he couldn't possibly bear to heave an on screen romance with a white woman.
OK,that's one scene.He turned down interracial scenes in "Pelican brief","Virtuosity","Devil in a blue dress","Mighty Quinn" & "Man on fire".How about that?That man is staying true to his black ideals 24/7.
Consistent with much you have been saying, back in the early/mid 90's there was a very vocal minority position against the adoption of young black children by white couples. This position was pressed by well meaning black leaders on the grounds that these children would be best served by being adopted by black couples. I only know this because I was looking to adopt then. I don't know if it still true today.
Considering Denzel's unique position in the movie industry back then he cannot be faulted in any way for his career choices.
Ok, I'm still young, and maybe I'm not understanding this correctly. But allow me to say the following:
1) I completely respect Denzel for his choice. 2) I completely understand what has happened in the past, particularly, the way people have viewed interracial relationships. 3) I understand the way this movie wanted to portray everyone, with respect. 4) I understand that the way the public may have viewed the movie if something had happened between the two of them, might have hurt the movie's box office sales.
But, I must admit, though I understand all of that, there are some things I truely do NOT understand. Such as:
1) Why did it matter to the movie makers (directors, screen-play writers, actors, etc.) what the public would do at the box office? *don't get me wrond .. i know the point is that it wouldn't sell, therefore they would lose money..but* why didn't they make the movie from an artistic, or independent film point of view. By doing this, they would have made the movie more .. whats the word.. true. More, breath taking. It would have given everyone who walked into that theater (who had read the book involving a white man) a false sense of security. Therefore, making the movie probably go up for more awards later on. 2) Why is it, that to this day, society STILL has a problem with Black men datind White women? Whats wrong with that. Let me paint the picture for you: First, the world was not meant to be this way. Second, no one ever had to say that Black men (and women) are different from any other race. Third, why is it that people cannot let go of the past slightly. *i know, the past cannot be re-written, but why can we not let it go a little and attempt to make it all better, attempt to clear up the fogged windows to our souls?* Finally, why can't society accept that a Black man could love a (White) woman more than the ground he steps on, with more heart than he has in his chest, with more heat than 100 suns? Why? And as another note: Why do we (as people of this Earth, as the viewers of these fantastic movies/pieces of art) have to accept it? 3) And since we are here today, speaking of this very subject: Why do we have to sit here, and take it? Why ... why do we have to watch as Hollywood does nothing to clear up the mess between the races? Why ... thats my main question .. WHY?
I guess I'll stop by saying, that I accept and understand all that has been said; but don't understand why we have to live by it. I loved the movie and I love the way the film was adapted. I've always loved how a screen-writer can take a book and write it in a new way, and I would rather say interpret than write. But I don't like that the only reason they changed it, was because of the colors we could only see on a screen. I don't understand why it's such a big deal to people, its only color, and I'll never understand that. Never in a million years. Because I, myself, am a young white woman, who's working towards a career in film as well, who will tell you right now I would never judge a man by the colors I could only see. I would never judge a character (such as Mr.Washingtons) before seeing into his sould first, and I never have, and never will. Much like I'll never understand society!
I have not seen this movie, but I just finished reading the book yesterday. I think it's important to note that their is no sex scene between Darby and Gray within the novel. The novel only implies that Gray was interested in a sexual relationship with Darby and ultimatly Darby had been softened into considering one by the final pages. On the last page of the book Darby and Gray are together in paradise and will be for at least a month. But it doesn't say that they had already had sex, nor that it is a 100% gurantee that they would. (their is a 99% chance that they would, but its still not confirmed.) Their is definitly something to be said about hollywood's long standing fear of showing interacial love scenes in movies. But I wouldn't go banannas pointing a finger at a movie that is based on a book which doesn't confirm that a sexual relationship even existed let alone an inter-racial one.
A good example however if you want to argue about something would be the two movies based on James Patterson novels starring Morgan Freeman. (Kiss the Girls and Along came a spider) Both novels have the charachter "Alex Cross" having sex with white women, and it is mentioned clearly that Cross is black. When both movies were released Rolling Stone magazine among others critisized hollywood for being afraid to show inter-racial sex as it had existed in those novels.
Another interesting thing to take notice about when you get into Denzel Washington would be the movie "The Hurricane" which as far as I've been lead to understand has a great number of factual inaccuracies. The makers of that movie did not want to tell you that the truth of the situation in reality was that Ruben Carter had been married to a black woman when he went into prison, but when he came out he married the Canadian woman who had been part of the lobby to have him released. The movie did have little moments that implied that their was a general flirtatcious intrest between Carter and the Canadian woman. Somebody mentioned that Washington kisses a white women in Malcom X because it was historically accurate, but why would Washington accept the role as Ruben Carter (a man he bares almost no physical resemblance to) if the script calls for a distortion of history in terms of Carter's involvement with a white woman?
"I think it's important to note that their is no sex scene between Darby and Gray "
interesting... Maybe i need to reaad the original version. I'm french and In the french translation it is made clear that they sleep together in the end... maybe a translator's license...
well in that case I guess we know what you french people think about all day and night ;-D
Yea, just read the last three pages of the novel in English and you should find that Sex is on the horizon for these two, but it has not actually happened yet.
Yep, there were no sex scenes between Gray and Shaw in the book. The only clear cut sex scenes (and yet they were not explicitly told) were betwen Shaw and Callahan.
I was surprised by this whole thread. I guess some people live for diagnosing racism, and apparently Hollywood has to act like it's walking on eggshells or some crap, including actors....
What a shame and a waste of time and humanity. As soon as all the people constantly hyperventilating over skin color are dead we can all get on with living, instead.
I'd just like to say that it was quite offensive that the evil murdering people in this film were entirely all WHITE MALES.
I'm really sick of the negative, blaming, vile stereotype white males - portrayed as corrupt murderers have to bear.
Yep, every single bad guy - bad person, was a white male in this entire movie. The only killers/murderers/nature destroyers/slaves to money there were.
It's been about 4 years since you posted but I enjoyed no romance between Denzel and Julia in the movie for the same reason I enjoyed no romance between Tom and Demi in A FEW GOOD MEN - just because a man and woman work together they don't have to have a romance. They can work together a friends or eneimies for that matter.
I realize this is not why those decisions were made in either movie , but I like to see a man and woman can be protrayed as just people, not humping machines .
I have a different take on this. Darby was supposed to be in love with her Thomas Callahan. It really didn't make sense for her to start sleeping with Gray only a couple of week's after Callahan was killed. I'm glad the movie left out the romance between Darby and Gray.