MovieChat Forums > In the Name of the Father (1994) Discussion > Term For The Abuse They Recived On Their...

Term For The Abuse They Recived On Their Ears


I have heard the term "boxed about the ears"-is what they are doing to Gerry during the interrogation scenes "boxing" his ears? It looks like pressing his ears against his head and stretching them at the same time. Giuseppe does this to Gerry during Gerry losing it when his father is jailed with him. (I know, I know, he wasn't in the same prison cell in real life).

Just curious, have heard this term many times, never saw it in action.

Thanks!

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oh dear, the big bad Brits 'twisted Gerrys ears', will the horror never stop !

So he was supposed to have given a false confession based on such playground treatment - goodness knows what he might have admitted to if he had been really tortured like the IRA did to their victims.

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It is not what they did but why they did it, that makes it (the ear twisting) 100% unacceptable in a state of law.

Any confession is moot even if you just threaten to harm the suspect without ever laying a hand on him or her. And quite rightly so if you ask me, for that is a slippery slope if ever there was one.

You get from ear twisting to water boarding and on to middle age style torture and mutilation faster than any compassionate human could want.

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and still no evidence for torture occuring in Northern Ireland, not even 'ear' tweaking....

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Sorry rice-1, but I have to differ.

Torture, of varying severity, was used against Republicans (terrorists or otherwise) in Northern Ireland in the 1970s. Naturally Britain's position in the UN, a degree of moral relativism and the usual post facto justifications and distortions (that we all indulge in) ensure that this is not accepted as truth.

The RUC/British security forces may not be willing to concede that torture was used but I think that expecting perpetrators to investigate themselves impartially is slightly more idiotic than naive. You might as well have asked the IRA to moderate its actions to reduce noise pollution.

There was/is evidence to support the claim. You shouldn't take my opinion as fact though because that would be incredibly stupid. A quick Google search corrected my ignorance of the facts:

In the seventies, Amnesty helped to expose the use of the infamous “five techniques” used here in security force interrogations of terrorist suspects: (1) hooding, (2) wall-standing, (3) subjection to noise, (4) relative deprivation of food and water and (5) sleep deprivation. (Techniques, let us not forget, now being rolled out as part of the global “war on terror”.)

For illustration purposes let me quote Tom Parker, a fellow at Brown University, and a counter-terrorism expert, who describes just one of the techniques as used in Northern Ireland in the early 1970s:
“Subjection to noise meant placing the prisoner in close proximity to the monotonous whine of machinery, such as a generator or compressor, for as long as six or seven days. At least one prisoner subjected to this treatment told Amnesty International that having been driven to the brink of insanity by the noise, he had tried to commit suicide by banging his head against metal piping in his cell.”

In 1977 the European Court of Human Rights found the UK government guilty of the use of these “cruel, inhuman and degrading” methods of interrogation in Northern Ireland.

At the time, presumably, the UK’s forces (and political leaders) thought the approach worthwhile and even necessary in their local “war on terror”.

However, subsequently, former British intelligence officer Frank Steele told the journalist Peter Taylor:

"As for the special interrogation techniques, they were damned stupid as well as morally wrong … in practical terms, the additional usable intelligence they produced was, I understand, minimal.”

....

But the abuses carried out in the 1970s in the cells of Palace Barracks in Holywood or Girdwood Barracks in Belfast cannot be explained away as aberrant behaviour by otherwise good people. What happened there – as happened in Abu Ghraib under Saddam and under Bush – were the actions of agents of the State carrying out the orders of the State.

These “interrogation in depth” techniques were not invented in or for Northern Ireland and had been used before in British colonies and dominions like Kenya, Cyprus, Palestine, Aden, British Cameroon and Malaya

Lord Gardiner in his minority report to the UK government in March 1972, put it pretty well:
“The blame for this sorry story, if blame there be, must lie with those who, many years ago, decided that in emergency conditions in Colonial-type situations we should abandon our legal, well-tried and highly successful wartime interrogation methods and replace them by procedures which were secret, illegal, not morally justifiable and alien to the traditions of what I believe still to be the greatest democracy in the world.”


- "Torture - 1970s Northern Ireland; 21st century world" by Patrick Corrigan (http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=938)

I am not sure what the situation was like for Unionist terrorists and non-combatants/innocents from their community who found themselves in the same situation. I assume that they were treated with equal derision in the interests of equality and justice - otherwise the RUC/British could be accused of collusion - or hypocrisy at the very least.

I do agree with you on one thing though, the character of the torture was that of a typical playground bully - but it was not a playground bully and future paedophile/rapist that perpetrated the torture, it was the police and the judiciary.

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I was told that EMTs/paramedics will pinch the ears, using a thumb and a ballpoint pen, with the ear in between the two, as a way of producing a response in someone unconscious due to alcohol or drugs.

Apparently, it's quite painful.

Add that to sleep deprivation, and a withholding of food and fluids, intimidation and threats against family, lord knows what I would admit to...




I'm here...without permission

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Black riots in London will topple the Brits

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I think "boxed around the ears" is just a synonym for "clip round the earhole", "I'll give you a thick ear" etc and nothing to do with a specific form of torture or whatever. The sort of thing parents say to wayward children.

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Paul Hill's autobiography 'Stolen Years' was slightly more graphic about the torture. He suggested that the duration and the disinformation played a part in his confession. The police managed to pin an additional murder of a British soldier on Hill in the process.

Physical violence - squeezing of the testicles was alluded to by many detainees - combined with sleep deprivation, threats to friends and family (direct and indirect), disinformation -- if someone kept me awake for a week or so and threatened my family, I would probably admit to the assassination of Jesus Christ himself. Then again maybe some people are more tough. I imagine they were easier to break than the real hardened IRA volunteers who actually committed the bombings.

I digress. My brother told me that pulling on the ears is called the Eskimo Ear Pull - very painful but a sport in some climates.

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I guess torture is a relative thing.

Having ones ears pulled does not appear to me to equal the torture dealt out by the IRA prior to murder.

Also your quotes from Amnesty International are hardly neutral coming from that organisation.

As for Paul Hill, why would he have admitted to another murder when none of the others felt the need to?

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Firstly, with regard to Paul Hill's conviction for the murder of soldier Brian Shaw, Hill was convicted mostly on the basis that he was still resident in Belfast at the end of 1972. That conviction was overturned in 1994 due to a complete absence of evidence - which makes his confession a case of police opportunism because the events surrounding Shaw's death are notoriously unclear. Also, at that time (1974), the Surrey Police needed a legitimate link between the Guilford Four and the IRA and it "solved" an unsolved murder in the process. To the best of my knowledge, no effort has since been made to find out the truth about what happened to Brian Shaw.

I agree that the IRA did dole out excessive and violent torture in an effort to achieve their aims- mostly within the Catholic community - counter-productive and ideologically unsound, in my opinion. They attacked the wrong people and, in doing so, they alienated themselves from a rational political basis and their supposed population base. It was morally and politically unjustifiable by any equivocation, tactically pointless and I personally find it reprehensible.

However, the IRA was a guerilla/paramilitary organisation not a police force - in much the same way that the UDA/UVF/LVF were not legally empowered to police Protestant communities or Catholic communities - although they still did so. The RUC, MI5, MI6, the British army and the British judiciary are, by their own claim, representative of the democratic will of Britain itself and are, therefore, subject to the moral and legal standards they impose upon society itself.

The point that I think people are trying to make is that the British government and the security forces were extremely hypocritical in their application of justice in Ireland and with regard to the Irish. They have always been reluctant to call the situation in Northern Ireland a war - preferring the term 'police action' but nevertheless applied measures that would be considered excessive in war.

As for this specific case, it was not a mere case of one little bully-boy policeman pulling someone's ears - there were other less savoury methods employed that were not shown in the film. Also the film failed to convey the duration of the interrogations - seven days without sleep. I believe that threats to family were without doubt the most severe measure employed - and considering the rumoured collusion (then and now) between the British, the RUC and Loyalist paramilitaries, it was a very real threat. Additionally deprivation of sleep, food and water over a period of seven days can make such threats and schoolyard bully-boy methods all the more effective.

I do not doubt that you, rice-1, would consider such methods of torture to be mild. I imagine that we would all like to believe that we would be tough enough to resist such 'torture' - whether this is a case of wishful thinking, rampant egotism or genuine stupidity. I sincerely doubt that the torture employed was anything akin to the dramatic torture pornography of 'Saw' or 'Hostel' so prevalent in recent social discourse - but it was effective and it was illegal, immoral and hypocritically applied principally to Republican suspects. Moreover, it was coercion, pure and simple, and in terms of power relations the actions of the British/RUC/Security Forces was no different than that of the IRA -- in fact, the spate of denial and equivocation that has ensued makes it far more like the self-interested moral justifications of rapists and child abusers who endeavour to place guilt upon their victims.

The issue with the film, I believe, is not the torture specifically rather that the Guilford Four were scapegoats that the British knew to be innocent - officially after the Balcombe St. Gang was arrested in 1977 and a fact that was conceded in the 1987 Home Office memorandum regarding their appeal. The British police tortured innocent Irish people to provide the British public with a show-trial in the full knowledge that it was a perversion of justice - their own justice, noy just the Irish conception of justice.

I understand your reluctance to concede that Amnesty International (UK) are unbiased to a certain degree, especially after reading your post history. However, I was thinking that the recorded testimony of Lord Gardiner, former Lord Chancellor and legislative reformer, combined with the findings of The European Court of Human Rights, a democratic and impartial legal body, and the evidence of those working in British Intelligence such as Frank Steele, who was active in MI6 in Ireland in the 70s and had witnessed British decolonisation in Kenya - would merit reconsideration of the issue of police torture in Northern Ireland in the 1970s.

I believe that the innate hypocrisy of the British/Unionist agenda in Northern Ireland unwittingly gave the IRA undue legitimation for their actions. It served to deepen the division between Republicans and Unionists, institutionalised the use of violence and compromised any claim that British or Unionists may ever have to being defenders of democracy. A government cannot claim to represent any majority, or minority, democratically if they are willing to pervert the course of justice through torture, partial legislation and moral relativism.

Personally, I was never really impressed by 'In The Name of the Father' as a film or as a story. Films like 'In The Name of the Father' can be a negative influence not only because they take license with the facts but also because they are very emotive. Still, it is just a film. I think that most people can differentiate between the unreality of a film and the facts of history. Sadly, avid Republicans take it as an opportunity to vilify the British while British people and Unionists indulge themselves in bouts of selective memory or proto-fascist diatribe - in either case, something that is best described as post-fascism because it denies the possibility of any truth in someone else's experience, historical or otherwise. Neither party are particularly concerned with the truth, justice or film criticism - nor are they really concerned with democracy, human rights or social and political progress. It's the same old game of hate that kept it all going for thirty years.

Personally, I have found the relative and selective attitude to history employed by British, Unionists and Irish apologists to be particularly insidious and underhanded - even when it appears as racist drivel from the product of generations of selective inbreeding. It makes the British seem more monstrously hypocritical than any Republican propaganda ever could. It validates the presumption that all the British and the Unionists are still a seedy little cabal of bullies. Hence, people in Ireland (and elsewhere) tend to think of Unionists as the Ku Klux Klan of Europe and Britain as the boarding-school paedophile of history.

Equivocal and severely biased interpretations of history and democracy by British and Ulster Unionists after the fact only serve to embed this conception in popular consciousness - and this can become a post facto legitimation for the IRA's actions - especially if people see that there are actually British and Unionists out there who actually fit the supposedly fictional and stereotypical roles of British bully-boy, Unionist bigot or pseudo-fascist hypocrite.









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you sir are an ill informed buffoon. put your crayons down and ask your babysitter to stop dictating your drivel. As a resident of N.Ireland this film took a massive leap into expossing a tiny bit of the abuse of power being exercised here for a long time. Its got alot better

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So you think it's ok to torture an innocent person - just because the IRA have committed crimes?

Is it also ok to rape someone? Other people have done it, so by your logic that makes rape ok?

Or perhaps you're just an idiot?

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"Boxing your ear" is punching somebody on the ear or on the side of the head near the ear. If you've seen "It's a Wonderful Life," then you've seen a kid get his ear boxed. Mr. Gower punches George Bailey on the ear when George refuses to deliver the wrong prescription to a patient. George's ear starts to bleed, and then he can't hear properly with that ear for the rest of his life.

I think the damaged ear kept George out of military service during WWII, as well.

To get "boxed about the ears" is to have multiple blows rained down on both ears or both sides of the head. It has nothing to do with pressing ears or stretching ears.

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