Armistead is so worried about Garnett riding his horse in the charge - Gettysburg (1993) Discussion

[–] tallkennj 9 years ago

Interesting catch. I don't know if this was based on anything real or just an oversight. However, it is plausible that Armistead just might not have been too worried about Kemper. Armistead and Garnett were professional soldiers who attended West Point at the same time (though Armistead didn't actually graduate) and worked their way up through the ranks at the same time and in the same places, and, by all accounts, both were good soldiers who served with honor and dignity (at least as much honor as one can have while serving in a rebellion). Kemper, on the other hand, was a politician. Yes, he'd served briefly during the Mexican War, but, in his prewar life, he'd been mostly a lawyer and legislator and presumably was prone to the kind of bluster a lawyer/politician might be prone to (and as depicted in the book and movie). As such, it isn't so crazy that, perhaps, Armistead DID care a great deal about Garnett and didn't care in the least about Kemper.

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[–] star_in_the_zenith_79 9 years ago

I wondered the same thing. Although it may be simply that Armistead didn't have a chance to talk to Kemper before the battle and didn't know that he was riding until he ran across him on the battlefield.

I don't know that Armistead would not have cared about him because of him being a politician or lawyer. I know that they arent' held in particularly high regard regardless of the time period, but whatever Kemper was before, at Gettysburg he was a comrade and a fellow soldier and probably would have been respected as such.

So I don't buy the theory Armistead didn't care about him, it was more than likely just a script oversight that wasn't historically accurate, or else he simply didn't have a chance to talk to Kemper before the assault like he did Garnett.

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[–] MadTom 9 years ago

Actually, in the book, in Chapter 4 of "July 3, 1863", there is a little more discussion on the subject than in the movie, with Kemper announcing his intent to go against orders and ride because Garnett was riding, and Armistead eventually realizing that it would be futile to talk both of them out of it.

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[–] indy_go_blue44 9 years ago

This is what I could find from wiki:

Garnett was in no shape to lead an infantry charge; he was suffering from fever and an injured leg when his horse kicked him and could not walk. But Garnett yearned to settle the record of his military dishonor from Kernstown, which the aborted court-martial could not. Despite protestations from other officers, Garnett insisted on leading his soldiers into battle on horseback, becoming a conspicuous target for Union riflemen.

Jackson had arrested Garnett and charged him with dereliction of duty because he pulled the Stonewall Brigade from an untenable position but without orders. Stonewall already had some grudge against Garnett that may have gone back to the Mexican War; at any rate (according to Shelby Foote) he didn't like or trust Garnett.

For various reasons, the issue hadn't been resolved at the time of Jackson's death.

I can't find anything about Garnett, Armistead and/or [edit] Kemper.

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[–] tallkennj 9 years ago

Garnett was definitely ill and hurt at the time of Pickett's charge so, by all accounts, he could not have made the charge except on horseback. By all accounts, he was also insistent that he go on that charge with his men. It was not only the honorable thing to do (by the standards of the day), but also because Garnett want to erase the stain of Kernstown, which ironically was a trumped up charge from Jackson that would have certainly gone away even if Jackson had not died.

By the way, Jackson was rather good at getting into disputes with his generals in the heat of campaigns that were quickly forgotten when it mattered. As the Confederate army was marching through Maryland in September 1862, Jackson had A. P. Hill placed under arrest after a dispute over marching orders. This was quickly and quietly forgotten when the fighting approached, and Hill ended up playing a very key role... perhaps the most critical role on the Confederate side... in the Battle of Antietam a few weeks later.

Heck, this might have just been a Confederate Army thing. John Hood spent much of the Maryland campaign under arrest, too (over a similarly trumped up charge about captured wagons). As Hood's troops passed by Lee while hoofing it up South Mountain to reinforce the Confederate position at Fox Gap on September 14, 1862, they began chanting, "Give us Hood" to which Lee eventually agreed. Hood, too, ended up playing a key role at Antietam and his "arrest" was never mentioned again. The same certainly would have happened to Richard Garnett regardless of what he might have done or not done at Gettysburg.

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[–] indy_go_blue44 9 years ago

Under the circumstances, IMO, Garnett did the right and absolute best thing in withdrawing from that stone wall. He was being flanked on both sides, he was fighting a force twice as large as his, and he was running out of ammo after holding the position for a couple of hours. Jackson was a wonderful tactical and strategic general, but from what I've read he was a real SOB to serve under, both as an officer and as an enlisted man. But he was a winner which won the affection of his men despite of the way he used them.

Interestingly, Stonewall advocated the same type of war that Grant administered later in the war. He believed in massacreing his enemies, not taking prisoners, and advocated sending an army up the Wheeling spike, marching to Lake Erie, and destroying everything in the way. TPTB didn't accept his ideas of war so they were never carried out.

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[–] MadTom 9 years ago

Jackson was a wonderful tactical and strategic general, but from what I've read he was a real SOB to serve under, both as an officer and as an enlisted man.

Not to throw this thread off into a tangent, but personally I don't discount the possibility that he was fragged rather than it being an "accidental" friendly fire incident.

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[–] star_in_the_zenith_79 9 years ago

Not to throw this thread off into a tangent, but personally I don't discount the possibility that he was fragged rather than it being an "accidental" friendly fire incident.

Highly unlikely. Despite the fact many of the army may have thought Jackson was a butthole, seriously doubt they would have shot him thus eliminating one of their best chances to win the war.

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[–] indy_go_blue44 9 years ago

I doubt it very much. Jackson and his officers rode out beyond the Rebel lines on a dark night. Returning from the scouting patrol, they rode into the picket line. The rebels thought it was Union cavalry and opened fire. Jackson's men hollered for them to cease fire they were friendly troops. Instead of ceasing, they fired a second volley, which is when Stonewall was hit in the shoulder.

Without radio or other means of communication, I doubt that the NC brigade had any idea as to either Stonewall's identity or that there were even Rebel troops out beyond the line.

Within minutes afterwards, Union artillery opened fire on the position. Stonewall was dropped on his wounded side, which may have exacerbated the injury, but probably not. The arm was already going to have to be amputated and I doubt that the drop had any relationship to the later pneumonia.

The UNITED States of America. July 4, 1776-June 26, 2015.
RIP.

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[–] anblq10 9 years ago

Granted this might have been just the actor that played Kemper but I always thought that Armistead just figured that Kemper wouldn't be able to lead a charge without being on a horse (mainly, Kemper being a larger fellow, might have gotten winded from all of the walking/running and wouldn't have been able to keep up and give commands). That's how I saw it at least. But as said, i'm not sure if the real Kemper was on the larger side or what his physical conditioning/stamina was for walking/running.

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