MovieChat Forums > Falling Down (1993) Discussion > I think the ex-wife is the closest thing...

I think the ex-wife is the closest thing to a 'villain' in this movie


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It's pretty clear that she never had a good reason to call him "violent", since he was never violent to her or his daughter. The restraining order seems totally unfair.

She had no call to stop him from seeing his daughter, who was obviously very happy to see him at the end

That video clip of their family also hints that SHE might have caused problems in the marriage. Judging from that angry outburst, she hated seeing him get close to their daughter.

She tries hard to play the whole "abused single mother" card, but I think she's the closest thing to being the bad guy in this movie.

Discuss.


Only the dead have seen the end of war.

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agreed. the wife pissed me off, she seemed rather cruel.

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I agree, she's the bad guy. It would've been right if she got what she deserved

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Omae wa mo shindeiru

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It was all the wife's fault. She could had least been calm to him and tried to get him help without being such a bitch to him

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agreed. the wife pissed me off, she seemed rather cruel.


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What?!?!
Yeah, ok, let's blame the victim. I think it was clear on the video that he was watching that he had a tendency toward intense rage over nothing at all. He even noticed it, too...you can see his discomfort while he was watching that scene w. the rocking horse.
It doesn't matter that he never actually physically hurt them. There is psychological abuse, as well.
And OBVIOUSLY she was right about his potential toward violence, right? The kid was young...she didn't know any better. All she knew is that was her dad.

I can't believe you'd call her the bad guy. Were we watching the same movie?

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I can't remember clearly, but in the scene where he's watching the home video, doesn't a shot of his ex-wife show a black eye (or what's left of the blackness)?

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No, she had just bad make up (eye lines ?) after crying.

Ad higher post above tendency - OK, I have ***k so I have tendency to rape women, because I'm man?

Agreed with OP, of course he had some bad moments bad who doesn't?

Peter Markoff
If you don't like my english, write it to me in my own language.

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you have bad moments where you flip the hell out and get pyschotically angry and fire off a machine gun over something as trivial as not being able to get the order you want at a fast food joint?

that is not a 'bad moment' that is a *beep* psycho. the home movie just highlights one of the moments where he flips out. for christs sake *his mother is afraid of him* he's obviously off the handle.

He is totally the villain, *the only* thing he does that is remotely justified are his acts of self defense from the gang members and the nazi.

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Next time please read name of the thread and previous posts, because we are discussing here his former family life and there was nothing special why he shouldn't be allowed to see own daughter.

Peter Markoff
If you don't like my english, write it to me in my own language.

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The fact that fast food, or the price of a soda, throws him into a rage is a CLEAR indication of what his ex-wife was trying to avoid. Perhaps she should have stuck around until he started taking out his rage on her and their daughter. Maybe wait until she actually got slapped around before deciding enough was enough? So often, we see abused wives being told they should have left sooner, before extreme violence erupts, not to wait until it gets worse, etc. and now this one is being ridiculed for doing exactly that!

You once had all the brains
Now they're just carpet stains!

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"The fact that fast food, or the price of a soda, throws him into a rage is a CLEAR indication of what his ex-wife was trying to avoid. Perhaps she should have stuck around until he started taking out his rage on her and their daughter. Maybe wait until she actually got slapped around before deciding enough was enough? So often, we see abused wives being told they should have left sooner, before extreme violence erupts, not to wait until it gets worse, etc. and now this one is being ridiculed for doing exactly that! "

Exactly, I just watched this movie an hour ago and the people calling the ex-wife the villain are freaking idiots, holy crap!

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Guilty before proven innocent?

You'd put a restraining order for violence against someone...who hasn't been violent? That doesn't make any sense. If anything, she's partly the cause of his madness.

Only the dead have seen the end of war.

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I would put a restraining order against someone...who HAS shown indications of violence and forceful behavior towards my child, as well as blatant self-control and temper issues. [/common sense]

There are obvious indicators of a person who could become violent, you don't have to hit someone to show a tendency towards violence.

The monster in Cloverfield was Hilary Swank's cock!!!!!

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I would put a restraining order against someone...who HAS shown indications of violence and forceful behavior towards my child, as well as blatant self-control and temper issues.


Since ALL parents at some point or another showed forceful behaviour with their children, I'd class that as pretty retarded.

Only the dead have seen the end of war. Plato

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There's a huge difference b/w being "forceful" and showing a huge potential to become abusive, much like the difference b/w a valid argument and one which shows a desperate attempt at an insult b/c one can think of nothing better to say.

The monster in Cloverfield was Hilary Swank's cock!!!!!

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Something you can't seem to grasp.

Since you've declared his non-violent, non-abusive parenting and marriage to be "omgz clear behaviour that he'll go on a cross-city rampage!".

Try again, this time think of a genuine argument outside of that ridiculous circular logic.

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Watching the movie, although he had a short temper and talked rough, I don't think he had the potential to be a violent parent. If you look at all the times he did get violent, he had been provoked. In the convenience store the clerk was pulling a baseball bat out on him. When he was in that Hispanic neighborhood, the gang member pulled out a knife and threatened to seriously hurt and possibly kill him if he didn't pay, when he resisted they tried to gun him down afterwards. In the fast food joint it was clear he had no intention of actually using the gun, like he said, his finger slipped, notice he takes his finger off of it afterwards. The army surplus place, the guy is a violent, psychotic, neo-nazi, bigot who thought he was a vigilante, and gives him things like a rocket launcher hoping that he'll hurt people with it, when he finds out he's not, he says *beep* your freedoms", handcuffs him, destroys the birthday gift he got for his daughter, and it's obvious he's planning to seriously harm maybe even kill him (As far as I'm concerned he deserved worse than what he got). The telephone, he didn't hurt anybody, he was teaching a lesson to a guy who was being an a**hole for no good reason. The golf course scene, he said he was just passing through. When he shot the police officer, judging by the location of the wound, it looks like he shot her there because he knew it wouldn't kill her.

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He DIDN'T show any indications of violence or forceful behaviour towards her. And ESPECIALLY not even remotely towards THEIR child. Nor did he have "blatant self-control and temper issues".

She had to lie to the judge to get him to lose custody, his house and have a restraining order placed on him, you stupid *beep*.

No matter how many times you repeat your ridiculous logic, it's never going to justify what happened BEFORE he snapped.

Her lies and destruction of his life are what caused him, and would cause a lot of normal people, to snap and do damage. And even then he showed restraint, even towards his "villian" of an ex-wife.

Which is besides the point. Since even THAT, the destruction of everything he held dear, didn't cause him to finally snap. It took the loss of his job, through no fault of his own, to...oh wait, EVEN that didn't make him snap. It took months of living with that destruction to finally snap on an extra crappy day.

Try again.

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Sorry, those people calling the ex-wife a "villian" have given specific, detailed explanations. Why you idiots have so far just cried "omgz psycho psycho!" and think the fallacious reasoning behind your claims backs you up.

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The fact that fast food, or the price of a soda, throws him into a rage is a CLEAR indication of what his ex-wife was trying to avoid. Perhaps she should have stuck around until he started taking out his rage on her and their daughter. Maybe wait until she actually got slapped around before deciding enough was enough? So often, we see abused wives being told they should have left sooner, before extreme violence erupts, not to wait until it gets worse, etc. and now this one is being ridiculed for doing exactly that!

bingo, you hit the nail on the head. she knew exactly he what he was capable of. unfortunately, the decks are stacked against victims in these cases. how many times do you see the wife killed by her husband only after calling the cops several times and them not doing a damn thing about it.

"perfecto!!"

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The deck was stacked against the HUSBAND, you complete idiot.

He didn't commit any crimes. He wasn't abusive. He wasn't violent.

And yet her lies in court managed to take away both his house, his child and put out a restraining order on him?

The very things that ended up CAUSING him to snap.

Great logic there. Let's completely destroy the poor man over no other reason than the wife was vindictive and then complain when that complete destruction of his life causes him to snap.

The very thing you claim the destruction of his life was meant to avoid.

Because we all know a 50/50 split in a divorce and joint custody would have TOTALLY made him snap EARLIER. Right?

Oh wait, no.

As for your idiotic claims about the law. You'll find ex-wives overwhelmingly screw over the husbands in divorce/custody hearings, even when theirs not even "suspicion" of a threat, let alone evidence.

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aeternus_proeliator, I couldn't have said it better myself. Finally some sound logic in this thread.

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You're not considering the context at all.

He'd never done that before previously in his life. He'd lost his job (probably due his anguish over not being able to see his family), been left by his callous wife who'd taken the extra step of banning him from seeing his daughter, had a near death experience with some punks who had tried to rob him, and then shoot him - so get your context right, it's not like he just woke up some day and went in and shot up a fast food joint for kicks.

The wife struck me as evil. D-dens clearly had anger and control issues, but was not abusive, just easily frustrated when the things he was trying to do for his family/daughter did not please them. This is a reason to get marriage counselling, not break up a family and then ban a father from seeing his only daughter. THAT is the most evil thing that occurs in the entire film - even at the end when he's embracing his daughter he hasn't seen for god knows how long, the wife cannot stand seeing their shared affection and tells him to stop and that he's sick. What a horrible, vile human being she is.

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Just to point out, that's not the reason he lost his job! His job was building missiles during the Cold War, and when the Cold War ended, he outlived his usefulness and got laid off!

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NO VIOLENCE occurred, you thick *beep*.

There were no warning signs. He wasn't violent towards her or anyone else.

Trying to, pathetically, throw your arms up AFTER the fact and say "see! see he was violent aaaall along" isn't going to work in a situation where despite BEING non-violent his life was destroyed by a vindictive ex-wife.

Blaming actions that happened after doesn't work since no previous warning signs were given for his actions through the movie. I very much doubt she told the judge "I strongly suspect he will engage in a cross-city rampage against people who deliberately piss him off in order to see his daughter for her birthday in a few years".

People like you are the damn problem. And usually end up messing with actual victims of domestic violence when they genuinely need help.

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Your argument is fallacious, since his rage in the movie was obviously triggered partly by his wife leaving him, and not letting him see his daughter. What a b----, seriously.

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The fact that fast food, or the price of a soda, throws him into a rage is a CLEAR indication of what his ex-wife was trying to avoid. Perhaps she should have stuck around until he started taking out his rage on her and their daughter. Maybe wait until she actually got slapped around before deciding enough was enough? So often, we see abused wives being told they should have left sooner, before extreme violence erupts, not to wait until it gets worse, etc. and now this one is being ridiculed for doing exactly that!


Lord help any man that marries you, ShizaMinelli.

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EVERYONE has the propensity to violence. You have a breaking point, we all do. This film was about D-Fens' breaking point.

He was not violent. He was weird and snippy. His wife admitted he was never violent. 90% of the violence in this film was not instigated by D-FENS. He reacted to the violence in a violent way for the first time. It took his wife leaving him, his daughter being taken from him, losing his job, and living with his mother to snap. He likely never would have 'fallen down' had his wife not been such a frigid cold hearted b!tch. Even the cops look at her like the khunt she is when they came to make a report and guard her from the non-abusive father coming to see his child on her birthday(maybe).

Not only that, but the character had zero redeeming qualities. If she wasn't the villain the film makers really screwed up.

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Or did you think the entire film where it specifically points out the compounding factors involved, effectively the complete destruction of his entire life, that made him finally snap?

And even then, he snapped at small things that legitimately bothered him. His snapping can't really be contended. He had a breaking point, everyone does. His was when the last vestige of his entire life fell apart. And even then, it took an extra *beep* day AFTER his life fell apart for him to snap.

And when he snapped he simply, at first, didn't put up with *beep* from anyone. And then started dishing out non-lethal *beep* to those who's assholich attitudes were the cause of a thousand little miseries in the world.

Why don't you go punch a puppy for a while and then b!tch that IT'S the problem when it finally bites back. Idiot.

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Peter Markoff--I hope your English has improved over the past sixteen years. It's not that I don't like it, it's just that sometimes it's not clear what you're trying to say.

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You feminists make me sick. Stupid piece of sh*t.

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Amen! I'm sick of everybody embracing a man-hating culture.

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Me three.

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hmm but you cant judge someone for something he might do.. you cant be blamed for murder if you say "omg i gonna kill this guy" because you are angry ..

this guy just get *beep* up from all sides .. and then he gets mad..

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I disagree; she was not right.

The culmination of all the things in Bill's life going wrong made him snap. Getting divorced, not having visitation with his daughter, losing his job, stuck going nowhere (which is the imagery of the first scene), Bill finally snaps and wants to return to his real home. If his ex wasn't so cruel to not let him see his daughter, then this story wouldn't exist.


"Grab the handle push the buttonnngghhhh."
"Let go of your own throat, Hank."
Black House = Socialism

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[deleted]

Oh, trust me, I know, I know all about it.

Except I got to keep my house. Thankfully.


"Grab the handle push the buttonnngghhhh."
"Let go of your own throat, Hank."
Black House = Socialism

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I've neer gone through a divorce but I thought it was pretty obvious that he was an ordinary guy who was just forced to put up with too much *beep* (such as the divorce) and lost it. That's the beauty of the movie. I dunno where people atre getting 'hes just a psycho'.

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He's a psycho because real men don't threaten women and children at gunpoint. The "too much" he's "forced" to put up with is entirely his own fault. If he wasn't such an *beep* his wife wouldn't have left him. If he wasn't such *beep* prone to utterly irrational bursts of rage, the court would let him see his daughter. These are very likely the reason's he lost his job as well.

He is not a victim. He is an idiot. I sincerely question the moral compass of anyone who manages to see him as some kind of hero.

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looky looky looky.

The entire film really isn't about whos right or whos wrong. This film is about one man's desent into madness. I find it sure, a little perplexing that his wife choose to get married and have a kid with man that had temper issues but thats beside the point.

Even at his full pyschosis, D-Fens is still trying to be a good person. He doesn't want any trouble, like Dorothy in the Wizard of OZ, he just wants to go home. Do I feel his one extraordinary bad day proves his wife was right at the end? Hell no. Same way I don't think Chris Beniot went from town to town killing people.

Bare in mind, D-Fens is snapped at this point. He may not be legally insane, but surely he's medically coo-coo at this point:

At the convience store, he pays for his soda. He's aggravated, but doesn't injure the guy. He did ask for change and the guy was being a dick. Didn't kill him over it. He insists he's not theif.

The hispanic dudes tried to mug him the in the park. He tried to leave nicely, even acknowledged their "ownership" of the turf. He defended himself.

Same hispanic dudes tried to kill him. Legally, he may not have the right to shoot homeboy in the leg, but I certainly sympathize as to why. And also bare in mind, he could of killed the kid then and there and he didn't. I think it's kinda reasonable to understand why he did what he did here.

The hamburger place, again, D-Fens is loony. He over-reacts, scares a bunch of people, but doesn't kill anyone- they're not bad people. He pays for his meal and moves on.

Phonebooth- Again he's loony. Someone else is pushing a guy that is having the worst day in human history. Doesn't kill the *beep* just shoots the phone out of spite.

The Nazi dude- Even when the Nazi claims they're cut from the same cloth, the repulsed D-Fens doesn't kill this scumbag. It's only when the Nazi pushes him does he strike back and kill him. I'll give D-Fens a by here too because his target was a Nazi.

Punching the man in the car, no different then the guy in shoot 'em up spanking the woman for threatening violence on her kid. Commiting assault, but nothing that the guy will need to see a hospital over. Plus the dude was antagonizing the elderly.

The golf course dude- He indirectly is the cause of death. All he wanted to do was walk threw, but the old bastard got his knickers in the twist. If I'm going to blame D-Fens for any death, it's only going to be this guys.

The family- He unintentionally scares them, but he otherwise means them no harm. remember this.

The lady cop- Doesn't kill her, mind you. Though shooting a cop is bad enough. He's crazy at this point, not only losing all hope, he realizes that there is no turning back. What can he do but keep going? This is his only true act of violence in the whole film.

His family- This is open to enteritation. Clearly he was going to do something with the gun, but I rather do think he wasn't going to kill his wife and kid. I rather believe, especially after he saw that video of himself, that he was going to kill himself so his family could have the insurance money. Though that may not have always been the reason, I do question why he would of kept calling his wife to frighten her.

I simple think the sane D-Fens was simply a man with anger issues, but probbly one that held back quite a bit for fear of losing all he had. With nothing left to lose, he had no reason to hold back all his aggression.

His mother, however, is tricky. Though I imagine, prehaps her husband was abusive which is wear D-Fens got his outburst from but he probbly never wished in a million years he'd grow up to be like his abusive father. The whole scene with her and the glass animals really just felt like a nod to the glass managiere, a play. Her main complaint was how cold and robotic he was, that it just freaked her out.

But how could he be such a bad man, if afterall, his wife married him? Come on. I wouldn't say his wife is the villian of the film, but she is a catalyst for his rampage. She clearly wasn't afraid of him enough to leave her house the first or second times he called.

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Comment a few years old, but I like this analyse a lot, so +1 and bump!

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I agree with the analysis however I wonder how behaviour therapists would judge his behaviour.

Eventually I think he intended - halfway through his hot and bad day - to kill his family and himself during his conversation with the family in the surgeon's villa. At that moment he was already past his "point of no return".

His dramatic intention may have been triggered on that day but could have definitely been also triggered sooner or later on when he wouldn't have any further funds (or means) left (remember the scene with his old shoe) to survive his ordeal.

Commonly there are 3 types of outcomes in this type of situation:
1) You resign and survive on a day to day basis. An example are the middle aged homeless people we see on the streets.
2) You resign but turn against everything you have been brought up to eventually leading to dramatic deaths (what we witness on TV and other media).
3) You find a way to get past this chapter of your life and try to find a productive and positive outcome. It of course depends of the support provided (government, welfare, professional re-orientation, counselling etc..).

I do agree with both perspectives discussed by different people, his wife probably saw it coming early on (and shut all doors right away), which probably might have become a reason to file for divorce, however the anger management issues could have been solved by marriage/family counselling however I wonder if that would have been even possible (ie. affordable) for the couple given the poor healthcare standards in the US...

So eventually I think the government failed him which led to the overall destructive and dramatic situation. Ironically the government "provided" him with all the weapons needed for D-Fens to get onto his rampage; An image which seems to become all too common in the past years.

Government provides a 7year long job, lays him off, perhaps with little to no benefits (though I remember the cop's partner mentioning he was fired for already 6-12 months), the marriage is broken up, centuries-old laws deny him to see his child (also a huge problem in Europe which is now finally being resolved ie. EU laws are being updated!), perhaps no professional re-orientation support provided by the government.

Conclusion: The victim turns against society and the government and dies a martyr's death.

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"...given the poor healthcare standards in the US..."

This is a tiresome leftist myth. The United States has the best healthcare in the world. People frequently come here from other modern, industrialized countries, including those that provide free government healthcare, to take advantage of the superior medical facilities and doctors.

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Exactly thank you! I really hope despite my beliefs in govt speech regulation that some of these men posting on here are being documented by someone. They seem incredibly scary to justify what this man did. All violent acts start with hate. There seems to be plenty of it here. Biggest villain really? Did you listen to the part where she did admit he wasn't violent physically and was honest with the judge but he told her it is in their best interests to get a restraining order? Why did he do that? Because plenty of times women and children have died by the hands of someone who exhibited warning signs that no one acted on. DUH. Really do i have to explain this to people. Now i think he should have had monitored visitation etc. but the judge recommended this. BIgger villain than the gang bangers who randomly shot people on the street? Bigger villain than the hateful nazi? Really? Exaggerate much?Comming from an abusive relationship myself, there were many warning signs exibited before *beep* hit the fan. If I had ended it sooner, *beep* would not have hit the fan. We are taught to not ignore the warning signs and they are there. Despite that I don't hate men because I am smart enough to understand this is not ALL men. Now you d bags on here judging from your posts deserved to be left. What kind of women would stay with men such as yourselves? With all your hate and mysogyny? No women in their right mind would stay with someone so preoccupied by hate. o wait you were never that way before she ruined you right? You let one woman or perhaps a couple ruin your perception of half the populice?? Are you admiting you are that weak? Have you no wonderful mothers, sisters or daughters? God forbid you have daughters my god! You're setting them up to be strippers for sure with your views of women! Have you reconsidered what sort of woman to get involved with? Maybe that is the prob or maybe YOU are the prob. Grow up!Are you always going after the same type of idiot woman? Some men on here are incredibly hateful. He showed dangerous tendencies. The mere fact that he did in fact sink that low after his breaking point proves he was unstable. PLENTY of people come to their breaking point. Most turn to drugs or other addictions to cope etc hurting only themselves. Some kill themselves again only hurting themselves. I wake up almost every day hating most of humanity for the shallowness, materialism, blatant disregard for others, killing etc. Normal people like myself (kinda) would never resort to this sort of blatant disregard as this man did! Clearly he was mentally unstable to say the least. He seemed at many times completely detached from reality which is a sign or a sociopath at best. I'm tired of all these men blaming everyone else for their problems especially women it is so absurd. Take ownership for your part and let the past go guys. Cus you know who you are hurting most? Yourselves by living with the burden of hatred towards women. WOW.O and if you can't do that,do us women a favor and turn gay. I don't want any of your filthy DNA in the gene pool. Peace.

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I've neer gone through a divorce but I thought it was pretty obvious that he was an ordinary guy who was just forced to put up with too much *beep* (such as the divorce) and lost it. That's the beauty of the movie. I dunno where people atre getting 'hes just a psycho'.

there are people who've put up with A LOT more than D-fense that did not "go out in a blaze of glory" shooting up fast food joins, and busting up stores.

sorry, I've seen this movie over a dozen times and I've always been convinced that he was always a few cracks away from a complete breakdown. The ex-wife knew it too.


"perfecto!!"

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i think she was just afraid of him like his mother was

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Okay, this film was directed by a Gay man who is Jewish, (not sure about the latter), the implication of the Nazi scene is that D-Fens IS the bad guy. How can you be so thick? This is almost as bad as the Menace II Society board where every third post is about how "cool" O-Dog is for shooting the Korean business owners.

,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams

www.myspace.com/ohhorrorofhorrors

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I certainly didn't root for D FENS.

"Charming company you keep."

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