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OT: Anyone else hate the Dark Knight Returns


Now im a huge Batman fan but I did not get into him through the comics but rather by the Burton films and the 90’s animated series. Both of which were awesome. But it wasn’t until I was in my 20’s in the 2000’s where comics were now called graphic novels and they were being studied in college classes and it was like respectable to read em, that i finally started . And yes I guess I am that pretentious. To give u some background about my taste I’ll tell u about some of the comics I’ve read. I’ve read a few non Batman comic books. ‘The Crow’ ‘special edition’ which I loved. All the Sin City’s, about half of which were good. And Watchmen, which I didn’t get. I know all the critics seemed to love it but I didn’t like it or the movie. Now onto the Batman stuff. I haven’t read much but a few. Tim Sales The Long Halloween, probably my favorite. Tim Sale’s Dark victory which I know is basically the same thing but I still liked it. Paul Dini’s Mad love. Also Batman: A Death in the family, which I just read to see Robin get killed. And though I was a bit disillusioned with Allan Moore after reading that silly comic Watchmen i still read the Killing Joke. Which I also really liked. But since every critic seemed to be creaming there jeans over the Dark Knight Returns, one critic even said Frank Miller was the most important Batman writer since Bob Kane, I figured I had to read it. I did not like it, at all. The story was bizarre and a lot of the imagery was just disgusting . And a girl Robin, ridiculous. Kidding, kidding but she was still a dumb character. I liked Barbra Gordon, even Stephanie Brown I thought was kind of interesting. But Carrie, with her stupid slingshot, that was just goofy. Plus all the BS 80’s social commentary which to me hurt the book the most and really made it feel dated. I get it that Miller probably hated Reagan (I was born in 87 so the Reagan era was a bit before my time) still though I have read enough US history to understand and appreciate anyone hating Reagan. But it all came out a bit muddled. Actually I think Dark Knight had a lot of the same problems as Watchmen. It seemed like Moore and Miller both had like a 100 ideas in their heads and they tried to get them all out in just one comic. Making the Dark Knight Returns just a cluttered mess. Whose with me on this. And if u do disagree, well let’s just try and have and adult debate. Also knowing what u do about my taste in comics is there any other Batman comics u all think I should read?
Thanks…….


i told you not to stop the boat. Now lets go. Apocaylpse Now

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[deleted]

You're not alone! I'm a gigantic batman fan, I think the animated series is the best version of it. I hate frank miller! He's fascist. His batman is a crazed, pyshchotic fascist. I think loved conservatism he certainly does now. I also hate how he claims he gave batman his balls back. Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams gave batman back his "balls".

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Well, first off, Miller owes Howard Chaykin a few bucks for swiping his narrative technique from American Flagg (media talking heads).

There is nothing groundbreaking in Dark Knight, other than the level of violence, relative to the standard comics of the period. Most of the ideas presented in it were there already, explored by people like Denny O'Neil, Neal Adams, Irv Novick, Don newton, gerry Conway, Steve Engelhart, Marshall Rogers, Jerry Robinson, Bill Finger, Carmine Infantino, Alan Brennert, Archie Goodwin, Walt Simonson, and others. Miller also pulled from Mickey Spillane and other crime fiction writers. There's nothing bad, per se, in it, though I think it is overly praised. It's a mature work, going further than most of the comics could; but, I don't think it is as mature, in terms of relationships, as the O'Neil/Adams stuff or the Engelhart/Rogers work. I think it completely misses the point on Superman and his relationship with Batman, as of the period. Superman was never a robot in service to any government. He served justice and what was right. He is not going to intervene in wars, except to stop them completely, and he certainly isn't going to stand by and watch the government railroad his colleagues, when he knows the good they have done. I also don't see the Justice League just taking a powder because the government gets in their face. It seems like Miller has little use for any characters other than those of human ability. His Green Arrow makes the O'Neil/Adams version seem calm and level-headed.

I still think it is a fine story, with issues here and there and it does have to be viewed in context with the time in which it was published. I don't think it is the Batman story to end all Batman stories. Quite frankly, Miller can't touch O'Neill or Archie Goodwin, as writers, and isn't even in Frank Robbins league. The art owed a lot to Klaus Janson, just as Daredevil owed a lot to Joe Rubinstein. It's still better than that abomination that is Dark Knight Strikes Again and All-Star Batman. I cringe at the thought of Miller going to the well again, as has been announced.

I still think it is an important work in American comics and presents some excellent storytelling, for the most part. I still think Year One is the better Batman work, and the apex of Miller as a writer. David Mazzucchelli is a much better visual storyteller than Miller and adds so much to it, while bringing a subtlety that Miller lacks. I also think that Batman The Animated Series is probably the best distillation of the history of Batman, in any medium.

Fortunately, Ah keep mah feathers numbered for just such an emergency!

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