Awful
I watched it yesterday I couldn' t wait for the end...I see no sense and deep meaning of it...It' s just a horrible, idiotic movie.
shareI watched it yesterday I couldn' t wait for the end...I see no sense and deep meaning of it...It' s just a horrible, idiotic movie.
shareinteresting.. I recall seeing this at the Toronto Film Festival the year before it's release and it has stayed with me as one of the greatest films I've ever seen. Curious, isn't it, how people see things so differently
cheers,
Will
What did you find so great in this film? I' m curious:)
sharefirst, I thought the basic thesis of the film was remarkable. Given the political climate at the time (don't forget this is a british filmmaker), the idea that people can be led to believe the unbelievable seemed fascinating when taken to this extreme. I also appreciate Greenaways ideas about mob rule and the chaos that humans create for themselves that seem to appear in most of his films. Also the ideas about religion and greed seemed particularly apropos at the time given all the scandals that were occuring among televangelists.
I think that the way in which Greenaway films things is so remarkable. He really is a painter of films (drowning by numbers, the cook the theif his wife and her lover, for example) - he uses great works of art and brings them to life. I was overwhelmed by the magnificence of the visuals, it was remarkably filmed (obviously this is due in large part as well to Sascha Vierny who has done great work with Greenaway - hard to believe he is close to 90!)
Lastly, I would say that the performances were just great. It was the first time I had ever seen Ralph Fiennes and I was quite taken with him as an actor, and I thought Julia Ormond was excellent. I had seen her in "young catherine" and thought she had quite a career ahead of her. Unfortunately, Baby of Macon was really the last time I thought she did anything very good. I hope now that she isn't an ingenue anymore, she can pick up her career and do something worthwhile. (Actually, I take that back, I forgot about Smilla) I recall going to see a film - I think it was called legends of the fall or something, because she was in it, it was just god-awful.
Anyway, just my opinions, I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I did truly think that Baby of Macon was a great film
(although I still think Drowing by Numbers is Greenaways best)
thanks for listening
Will
thanks for answering:)
shareWill, I'm sorry but I just couldn't connect with this movie. Maybe when
I'm older and watch it again, I will see it in a different light.
p.s. I too find Julia Ormond a good actress..too bad she didn't become
a big movie star.
I know for me I get her mixed up with Binoche, but Binoche is a far more superior actress in my opinion. I can see why a producer would choose to go with her instead of Ormond.
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all
My thanks to Will-35 and FILMFAN 89 for behaving like adults. Thay restore my faith that folks can see a movie quite differently and discuss their view point without resorting to name calling and crude language.
shareWhere did you watch this movie? Where can I watch this movie?
shareThere is a website called revengeismydestiny.com. you can buy it there. Very interesting movie.
shareIdiotic with no sense and deep meaning? I can't believe anybody would think that about this film.
The stance it affirms on organised (and tyrannical) religion is pretty clear. As was the ignorance of the monarchy as expressed through the character of the child-like prince who goes from providing a comical relief, to advocating the rape.
I loved the tragic storyline, and the emotion which i thought some of the scenes provoked (and particularly how they went about it...not knowing whether it was a play within the film or not really changed the perspective).
The set design and cinematography were amazing, I've never seen anything like it to this degree. Is this a feature of all Greenaway's films? The only other i have seen is "the cook..." which i also really enjoyed.
I just watched the movie, and agree with all of the above, but what was this about: a greedy virgin is intercoursed to death because the child she misappropriated used its mystic power to brutally protect her virginity? What deep meaning does this have for anything?
(so the dumb prince suggested it, and the cleric accepted, but why make a common social comment in this way?
just a question..i really dont mean to sound..retarded..or anything like that..
but..how can you be intercoursed to death?
what exactly kills you?
dont think im gross or whatever either..its just an honest question..
ok..thank you
"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."-George Bush
R.I.P Andy Gibb
That's a good question surfercutie, I get your point. I'm sure it's possible, but i hadn't thought about it in depth(too grim a thought for me).
The only other film where I've seen this happen is "Last exit to Brooklyn, " which is a very different type of film, but also very depressing.
I suppose people can die of exhaustion, right?
Internal bleeding and external blood loss. Happens in war all the time.
shareI thought it was a great film, engaging and powerful, one of Greenaway's best. It deals with two important issues:
1) the danger of being led by religious hysteria and irrational superstition and the damage that this can cause. Although hard to watch for some, the rape scene importantly brings up the subject of rape as a political weapon, which directly relates to the Bosnia conflict. "The film was made and shown at a time when officially sanctioned state policy in Bosnia legitimised the wholesale rape of Muslim women in a policy of deliberate humiliation". (Greenway in interview in 'Peter Greenaway: Architecture and Allegory').
2)"It was intended, in part, as a comment on contemporary voyeurism". The way in which Greenaway creates Brechtian levels of audience (the actors on stage, Cosimo-the mediator, the audience within the film, and you, the viewer) foregrounds the fact that all the way through the horrific events you have still participated as an inactive voyeur. At the end of the film the actors on stage peel forward towards the camera, then the audience itself turns round and looks outward, making us aware of the fact that we are too an audience and makes us question our role as audience. Is cinema not participatory enough? (Greenaway would say as much). In a more general sense its a call for an increase of political engagement, ie everyone should stop looking on at the worlds ills and actually do something about it.
that's how I see it anyway.... argument is welcomed :)
You nailed it, MJF.
The strongest emotion a careful viewer of this film should feel at the end is: GUILT.
I totally called the end scene with the boy. Totally...
You certainly can kill a woman by "intercoursing". My great-grandfather did so to three wives. One part of my family history of which I am not proud but will not hide from.
While watching the scenes where the woman shamelessly exploits her brother, I kept thinking of the Beatles, Menudo, The Olsen Twins, Justin Beiber, and even the Dalai Lama. Of course the most obvious comparison was made in the dialogue, which makes this a great Christmas film for the whole family.
I wonder about the child actors in this film, and the degree to which any of them had any idea what was going on around them while making this unique work of art. The repeated reference to the boy's "perfect cock and balls" ("WHAT THE *beep*?") could be easily compared to the sketch on SNL in which Tina Fey professes her ambiguous love for Justin Beiber. "I don't know if I want to marry him or put him in a stroller and push him around the mall."
We are reaching a time in our culture decline that indeed the very instincts which form the basis of a healthy, nurturing family are being corrupted,perverted, and inverted. This too was part of this child's message to us, as they drained his fluids.
I would hate to be one of the people who got nothing from watching this film. I would have to go back and watch it again, which I hope not to do for some time, though I will recommend it to others.
Love is like breathing. You have to take some in and let it out to live.
I had avoided this movie until recently because I had heard how horrible it was; seeing Greenaway's follow-ups ("The Pillow Book" and "8 1/2 Women"), it was easy for me to imagine just what a boring chore sitting through it would be. The fact that those two films _did_ get distributed whilst "The Baby of Macon" did not also failed to add to the movie's lustre.
So imagine my surprise when I finally did see it, and found it an amazing, coherent (a big plus in a Greenaway movie), and mesmerizing movie.
Okaydoke. thanks for listening.
--
I should warn you -- he's a Fourierist.
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I really feel that I have to add my twopence worth - to me this film is absolutely amazing - it has stayed with me since I first saw it several years ago. The questions it asks about audience participation and religion both in terms of art and religion are so pertinent and culturally relevant that I feel it will remain an important film to be viewed for many years to come.
The cinematography is beautifully dark and gothic and the central performances stand out so as truly memorable defining both Julia Ormond and Ralph Fiennes as the great potentials they turned out to be.
I urge anyoe to give this film the benefit of the doubt and investigate for themselves.
PS am very drunk and it is gone 4am here so sorry if not all of this makes sense!!!!
I tried, I really tried, but this film was impossible for me to watch. I realize it is very stylized and in a genre of its own, but as I had a tape version I kept fast-forwarding it because it was putting me to sleep. I didn't like the stage-like atmosphere for one thing, and it moved sooooo slow that I lost patience. I don't need an action flick to keep my attention, but this was just . . . .well. . . zzzzzzzzzzzzz
share[deleted]
You hear it - you don't see it. It's horrible. But it might get people aware of how horrible rape is: a moral crime that should be prosecutable be law everywhere.
share[deleted]
Geez! Just watch the film... What's the difference if she gets raped once or 218 times? It's rape, it's meant to feel horrible in the film and it does. What's up with the obsession with the sex in this film!? If you're a pervo B-film freak who's just interested in how disturbing the film is, rent I Spit On Your Grave instead. Although it is graphic, the sex in The Baby Of Macon is but a small portion of what the film is about.
sharePerhaps they can't handle graphic sex scenes? I know that's why I've stayed away from Irreversible. Why jump to conclusions? It's a valid question.
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all
I agree, it's also my favorite of his. I love the way he plays with the audience's (both in-film and we the viewers) perception of what is real and fake, the on-screen-scene action and off-screen-scene action. The way he warps the dimensions of the theater. It's masterfully done, full of life (and death) and the ideas and themes throughout the film are presented in such an original way, how could anyone think this is an awful film (unless you have a weak stomach)?
shareI have to agree this was HORRIBLEWhen there's no more room in hell, The dead will walk the earth...
This is the best Greenaway movie!