MovieChat Forums > Howards End (1993) Discussion > Henry's Proposal to Margaret...

Henry's Proposal to Margaret...

posted 18 years ago by Tazwoman
11 replies | jump to latest

I love this film. Love EVERYTHING about it. But one thing always strikes an odd chord with me. When Henry is on the staircase and says, "What I mean to say is, would you consider sharing..." to Margaret, she immediately says, "Oh yes I see." This is a marriage proposal? Please, someone explain to me how she would have deduced that, apart from the 'sharing' word being uttered. I do know that in the scene at Simpson's she was keenly aware of something happening between them when Henry announces that he's happy to be the house hunter for Margaret Schlegel, and then when on holiday and she receives his note to come up to London she says to her family, "and now it's my turn to be of use."

I hope that someone familiar with how society interacted in the Edwardian era will come forth. It's fascinating to me! Also if someone could recommend any resource materials (apart from other M/I productions and Forster novels) on that time period, that would be wonderful.

--Tazzy

[–] invergarry 18 years ago

In the novel, Margaret had already surmised that Henry Wilcox would propose marriage to her. When he speaks to her on the staircase, he's basically continuing her own inner dialogue. A few lines later, he does unequivocally ask her "to be my wife." I can only assume the later line got chopped in the editing of the film.

[–] m-newson 18 years ago

On re reading the book, Maragret gets an inkling of Mr Wilcox's feelings as he shows a pique of jealousy when he arrives at her flat with his daughter & puppies and Mr Bast is there.

[–] Tazwoman 18 years ago

Thank you both for that. I will have to read the novel!

--Tazzygal

[–] saltandpepper66 18 years ago

She understands it's a marriage proposal because what else would he be asking her? This is 100 years ago remember...he's not asking her to a movie. It's a perfect scene.

[–] tin_of_cookies 18 years ago

the scene is awful in my opinion.
and i'm not happy they put the kiss there rather than in its original place.
it just annoys me when i read books and watch their film and they change certain little things.
Henry's kiss is disappointing, and its like hes almsot ashamed to show any vulnerabilty to his future wife.
Here, he does not look like a man to me, but a fool.

[–] burgan6203 18 years ago

Film adaptations are almost always different from their literary sources; or at least the very good are. IMO if it sticks TOO close to the book, the movie will have no life of it's own. That's not to say that the book should be neglected or disregarded(of course not).

About Henry Wilcox seeming ashamed at showing any vulnerablity, that's how he is when they first kiss in the novel as well--if I had it right with me I'd go to the spot and quote it--. The proposal scene is different in the film, but I think it catches the essence of the scene in the book.

I tried to dance to Britney Spears/I guess I'm getting on in years

[–] tin_of_cookies 18 years ago

a man in the darkness

[–] burgan6203 18 years ago

I now have the book, and since I have nothing else to do right now, I'll quote the passage(right at the end of chapter 20).

"They walked ahead briskly. The parade and the road after it were well lighted, but it was darker in Aunt Juley's garden. As they were going up by the side-paths, through some rhododendrons, Mr.Wilcox, who was in front, said 'Margaret' rather huskily, turned, dropped his cigar, and took her in his arms. She was startled, and nearly screamed, but recovered herself at once, and kissed with genuine love the lips that were pressed against her own. It was their first kiss, and when it was over he saw her safely to the door and rang the bell for her, but disappeared into the night before the maid answered it. On looking back, the incident displeased her. It was so isolated. Nothing in their previous conversation has heralded it, and, worse still, no tenderness had ensued. If a man cannot lead up to passion, he can at all events lead down from it, and she had hoped, after her complaisance, for some interchange of gentle words. But he had hurried away as if ashamed, and for an instant she was reminded of Helen and Paul."

Interesting decision, how Ruth Prawer Jhabvala moved the kiss to the marriage proposal.

I tried to dance to Britney Spears/I guess I'm getting on in years

[–] Chwelve 18 years ago

I think it should also be pointed out that Henry is afraid to show vulnerability at any time. Anthony Hopkins' brilliant mannerism when he finally breaks down and begins crying--abruptly shielding his face with his fingers--perfectly defines the character.

[–] rahrahranger 16 years ago

He tells her the house is empty and he can't stand it and asks her if she ever gets lonely it's his way of inviting her into it.She probably knew after that that he was about to propose so simply said oh yes I see.Marriage was such a simple transaction back then.

[–] mmitsos-1 16 years ago

I know that this scene seemed strange to me at first (not having read the book, I hate to admit. I MUST read it). However, it is so VERY British (minimal expressio!...and I found it rather humorous!), and it is 100 years ago. I gathered, as someone else mentioned here, that Margaret had already more than sensed by this point in their "relationship" that Henry took more than a casual interest in her. You could tell how interested in her he seemed when they had lunch together, with Henry's daughter and son-in-law at the restaurant. Margaret first ordered fishpie for herself, and he suggested something else, and ended up just ordering for her. And in this scene, he also seemed to take a great interest in helping her find the "perfect house" (however, this could also have been a maneuver to just divert her thoughts from possibly getting Howards End, since she did ask him about letting it to her and her sister. I love when in this scene she says to him..."Mr. Wilcox, I am demented". They showed that very clip at the Oscars, and I hadn't seen the film yet at the time, and I found it just so odd, and funny). And then, in the scene in which he and his daughter give her the little perfume bottle as a "gift" from his first wife, I could sense that he sort of already was falling for her, while at the same time assessing her motives. At least he makes it clear in a couple of scenes later, after marrying her, to Charles that she was too nice of a lady to really demand anything. So, he could see from the beginning, I guess, her sincere, less mercurial intentions. So, he thought that she was honest, attractive, etc.

I think he did love her, but I still found it annoying that, in the next to last scene, when he is sitting in the parlor of Howards End and and telling his daughter and other son, and daughter-in-law (Charles is now in prison) that there should be "no more discussion" and that he is to leave Howards End to his wife, who will will it to her nephew upon her death. He says she gets Howards End, but then, in the very next sentence, he says to his son "if you object to this, Howards End will be yours". He still gives his children, or maybe just the son, an out...he tells them that if they really do object to his giving it to Margaret, it is theirs. Thankfully, they decide it's not right for them, because of all the scandal surrounding it now. However, I just think that it was rather cruel of Henry not to decidedly, definitively give it outright to Margaret, without the caveat that his children can take it if they really want it. That struck me as odd. This comment didn't seem to phase Margaret though at all, and she still seemed to love him very much, probably because he was getting on in years.