MovieChat Forums > Howards End (1993) Discussion > The Schlegels were Jewish?

The Schlegels were Jewish?

posted 19 years ago by heaintloveu
27 replies | jump to latest

A lot of viewers wonder, after they see the movie, why Emma Thompson's character would stay with that of Anthony Hopkins. Money and power are some of the reasons, but ... I don't mean to sound stereotypical, but I'm wondering if it was because she was Jewish and she was fearing some sort of persecution. Persecution in general so PLEASE don't interpret that as she was fearing Nazism or something. Of course, there's no suggestion in the movie that she was Jewish, but ... perhaps it was implied? I think it was.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] heaintloveu 19 years ago

I don't know what I'm talking about because I didn't read the book (I almost never do), but ... it just seems like their religion, if they were Jewish, would be something THEY would want to hide out of fear of persecution.

But I don't know. I'm just postulating.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] heaintloveu 19 years ago

After having read my posts over a few times I hate myself for coming to the conclusion that the Schlegels were Jewish simply because I thought they name SOUNDED Jewish.

And honestly, now that I think about it, if the original author had told us outright that they WERE ... the focus of the entire story would have shifted, and "Howards End" as we know it may not be as it is. And I would hate that because I think the story is perfect.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] heaintloveu 19 years ago

Excuse me for being dumb, but ... do you possibly mean "key" as in "lock and key"? And if so, I don't quite "get" the symbolism at all.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] stuporman-1 19 years ago

Juswt out of curiosity, in which language does "schlegel" mean key?

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] mirabelli82 19 years ago

I was under the impression that the Schlegel's were of German ancestorage.... Schlegel is a German name & Helen did stay in Germany for a while during her pregnancy....

[–] Heybartender 19 years ago

In the novel, the Schlegels' German and English sides are compared and contrasted quite a bit. The name is meant to sound very German, and I remember reading something in the introduction in my copy of Howards End about the Schlegel brothers (German Romantics) being an obvious influence/inspiration for the name. I got no feeling whatsoever that the Schlegels were Jewish from the novel.

[–] twistedude 18 years ago

Many German names with concrete meanings (tree, stone, --man, etc.) are Jewish-=--but not always, or even most of time.I also found not thr slightest hint that the Schlegels were Jewish. Schlegel is a common German name, but not very common. I persoanally have no idea what the sigificance of the meaning would be (see above post).

"Thus began our longest journey together." To Kill a Mockingbird

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] rebkad 11 years ago

Indeed, although there is technically no reference to 'Jewishness' in the novel, the Schlegels do seem to take the place of 'foreign' or 'unusual' people in a way that Jewish characters do sometimes seem to play in English literature. They reminded me of the Mendelsohn family for example, who were German Jews but also thoroughly and happily accepted. They are 'not completely English' in contrast to the supposedly thoroughly Anglo Saxon Wilcoxes. The irony is that the Wilcoxes tend to display a lot of thoroughly 'Germanic' traditional attitudes of insular family loyalty and honour. After all Saxony is also a part of Germany.

[–] aroth15 19 years ago

Forster chose the name Schlegel because of Friedrich Wilhelm Schlegel, the 19th century German philosopher and literary theoretician. This fits in with the Schlegel sisters' interests in literature, music and art. "Schlegel" is a very German name, and completely not-Jewish. It would be very unusual to find Jews with that name.

Allen Roth
"I look up, I look down..."

[–] aroth15 19 years ago

I am curious: In what way did the Schelegels "sound" Jewish? I genuinely have no idea what you are referring to.
BTW---Schlegel is a German name, absolutely un-Jewish (the German philosopher and literary theorist Friedrich Wilhelm Schlegel, after whom Forster probably took the name).

Allen Roth
"I look up, I look down..."

[–] coolbluegreen 19 years ago

You should try reading. You really, really should. Learning something might prevent you from making wildly inaccurate guesses based on nothing but your own ignorance and prejudice. Again, dear -- Howards End was set in the EDWARDIAN ERA. It was published in 1910. The Nazis wouldn't come to power for more than twenty years. Are you now going to ask if Margaret was a psychic Jew?

[–] Swilington 19 years ago

"Persecution in general so PLEASE don't interpret that as she was fearing Nazism or something."

Obviously you are the one who should try reading.

[–] coolbluegreen 19 years ago

I wonder why you think that. Can you explain why you think that? You should have paid better attention in history class. The film is set in the Edwardian Era -- and that lasted between 1901-1910. While anti-Semitism was a reality then as it has always been, the Nazis weren't even the horizon yet. Heck, World War I hadn't happened yet, much less WWII. I have to say, your question is appallingly stupid. Margaret didn't marry Henry because she feared persecution -- why do you think she would be persecuted AS A JEW if she left him? Furthermore, she clearly stays with him because he needs to be taken care of; he breaks down and needs her and she does love him. Try reading a history book and maybe even learning something about Jews (I doubt you know much) before asking such a ridiculous question again. How many Jews do you think were at Oxford, as Tibby was, during the Edwardian Era? THINK!!!!!

[–] heaintloveu 19 years ago

Omg, all this conversation and fluttering about because I asked one simple question? I leave for months and come back, and this has all erupted?

Anyway, I know vey well when WWI and WWII started. I know the dates of the Edwardian period in British history.

I'm not going to read the book called "Howards End." Just because some of you apparently have doesn't make you more or less intelligent than anyone else.

The message board was created for entertainment purposes, not so everybody can sign on and try to one-up everybody else. I asked a little question months ago--I'm the one that started this post--I thought I had my answer and was satisfied.

Everybody needs to stop worrying about who posts what on this message board and start worrying about the world around them a bit more. Better yet, get your nose out of the book you're reading and pop in the "Howards End" DVD again, just for a change.

Again, this message board was created for entertainment purposes ... and thanks for keeping me entertained these last few minutes!! :)

Love to all, bye for now!!

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] golden-24 19 years ago

"I didn't care for some of the things he did or said, but I thought he was a very good person."

How was he a very good person? He clearly thinks that anyone in a lower class is inherently inferior and do not merit any help from those in positions of power and influence. And he seems to have brought up his children to believe as such. He also participates in and sanctions the destruction of the letter Ruth wrote on her death bed stating her wish that Margaret receive Howards End, and continues to lie about and cover up the matter for years. What attributes of good character does he show?? If there are any, I missed them completely.

As for the original post: The Schlegels are clearly not Jewish, for all of the reasons stated above and any number of others that I could probably find (but that's unnecessary as there is no debate about it). I'm in the middle of the novel and I am Jewish; there is no indication whatsoever in the film or novel that they are Jewish. In fact, there is every indication that they are NOT Jewish. I don't think the original post was necessarily a dumb question, as the original poster may only have seen the film once and did not read the novel. But anyone who, having seen the film and read the novel, thinks the issue is debatable simply has no idea what they are talking about. (I don't mean that anyone who thinks as such is "stupid," I'm just saying that they don't know what they are talking about on this one particular matter).

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] baltofan123 18 years ago

As I recall, one of Margaret's meetings with Ruth was to go Christmas shopping, and Margaret had a well-established strategy of making a list of recipients for whom to buy presents. That would seem to me to indicate that the family was not Jewish...

While some have speculated that Margaret's family may have been Jewish, and that this was implied so as to provide a reason for them feeling discriminated against, such a detail would really be redundant. Simply being German made the family "less than equal" in Edwardian society. Notice how Aunt Juley, in speaking with Charles Wilcox on the way to Howards End, states that the family is German, but are all quite intelligent in spite of that unfortunate heritage. I think it's one of the most subtly amusing lines in the film.

It is such a pleasure to read posts from people who've enjoyed this film as much as I have!

[–] Miinerva 11 years ago

in spite of that unfortunate heritage.
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The royal family is German (Prince Albert). So it isn't that unfortunate.

I never saw the Schlegels as Jewish and it isn't one of those names that Jews have as well as Germans, like Miller for example.

[–] kaskait 10 years ago

No.

The Schlegel's were old English stock who had just recently married a..shhhh.. foreigner. The fact that Tibby was in Oxford indicated that the family had legacies at the university and could vouch for his background.

That being said, I very much doubt they were ever gentry. Maybe some distant family ties to them?

[–] MissGruntled 8 years ago

The Schlegels were old-money Germanic Brits, just like the British Royal Family. They may not have seen a need to anglicize their surname...not yet anyway. The royals did, in 1917, under the pressure of increasing anti-German sentiment, and The House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha became known as The House of Windsor.