MovieChat Forums > Captain America (1991) Discussion > Civil War review attempt...

Civil War review attempt...

posted 9 years ago by kmac169
12 replies | jump to latest

I've been thinking for over a day now on what to say about Captain America: Civil War, and I really find it hard to put down exactly how I felt about the movie as a whole. But I'm going to try my best.

Now this isn't a negative by a long stretch. I really enjoyed the film (gave it a 10 after all), but it was a different enjoyment than I had with most superhero flicks.

It's not the same psyched, up feeling that I had coming out of the theater after movies like The Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: The First Avenger, Guardians of the Galaxy, or Deadpool.

This one was more like how I felt after watching Captain America: The Winter Soldier or The Dark Knight. It's a more somber feeling, but it very much impressed at the same time. I have the feeling in the long run Civil War will be more like Winter Soldier than The Dark Knight where the more I re-watch it the more I like it the more it grows on me to the point where I enjoy watching it more than some of those other films I mentioned.

On the whole it is a very solid film with a great balance of story, action, character, and heart along with some nice moments of humor. And it is just one more film that fully cements in my mind that Chris Evans was born to play Steve Rogers.

I would like to add that I do disagree with many reviews that say Black Panther and/or Spider-Man stole the show. Not at all for me. They were good and solid (Black Panther much more so), but not remotely show stealing. If I had to give that title to any character it would probably be Ant-Man. But for the most part the focus for the whole movie for me was always Steve Rogers, Bucky Barnes, and Tony Stark.

The one other thing I disagree with from other reviews are those moaning about the villain, especially saying he was unnecessary. I'm curious as to how Zemo was unnecessary when the very moments that actually drove the characters to physical confrontation rather than verbal debate were pretty much all manufactured by Zemo? The UN bombing, the release of the triggered Winter Soldier, and the reveal of truth of Howard and Maria Stark's death. The only thing he didn't outright manufacture was the Sokovia Accords, but he did take advantage of a rather obviously polarizing accord to enact his plan for revenge upon the Avengers. The way the movie is set up and plays out; without Zemo you don't have the Civil War among the heroes.

And I could easily see this version of Zemo coming back to manipulate other villains (well... ones who are still alive and kicking that is) into an MCU version of the Masters of Evil (maybe not calling themselves that) with the sole purpose of killing the Avengers.

Also while many rave about the airport scene (and it is a good/great multi-character fight scene), I'm much more taken in with the final harsh fight between Cap, Bucky, and Iron Man... that one was just so much more raw, almost hard to watch in a good way.

And on a final note I am so very happy that the movie ended with a feeling of hope. Cap breaking out the other Avengers with the promise to Tony that even though they had their falling out he will still have Tony's back when the situation needs it.

Sanity is for the weak!

[–] DesiredFX 9 years ago

Also while many rave about the airport scene (and it is a good/great multi-character fight scene), I'm much more taken in with the final harsh fight between Cap, Bucky, and Iron Man... that one was just so much more raw, almost hard to watch in a good way

I think people haven't talked much about that fight because it's harder to talk about. It's brutal and painful, and the one place where the score really jumped out at me as properly supporting what was epic in this film.

The Batman/Superman confrontation looks ridiculous in the shadow of this fight.

Copycat trolls always have each others' backs, even if both accounts are the same guy.

[–] GomezAddams666 9 years ago

[–] kmac169 9 years ago

I think people haven't talked much about that fight because it's harder to talk about. It's brutal and painful, and the one place where the score really jumped out at me as properly supporting what was epic in this film.

I can definitely understand that. I just wish more had at least mentioned it even if they didn't really go into depth about it.

It was raw, brutal, and painful and that is what made it so powerful and for me so much more memorable. It was the real pay off of Civil War so much more than the airport scene was.

As to the film's score... I'm kind of mixed on it. On one hand I wish it had been more memorable, but on the other I glad it was more subdued and avoided being either too overly dramatic (or melodramatic) or overly bombastic... or even worse both (ex. BvS... god I hated that film's score).

The Batman/Superman confrontation looks ridiculous in the shadow of this fight.

I couldn't agree more. The rapidly deteriorating setup for the conflict in that film just robbed that scene of all the weight it could have had. And that was before the following cluster***k end fight with Doomsday (which pretty much had no weight either).

Sanity is for the weak!

[–] Jeorj Euler 8 years ago

The Batman/Superman confrontation looks ridiculous in the shadow of this fight.

Part of it is because Batman had no damned reason to be trying to kill Superman.

[–] GomezAddams666 9 years ago

Very well articulated review, my friend. Would not expect anything else from someone who enjoys the soul of the characters.

I was worried that all the soul and feeling and intensity of it would give you some sort of overdose but telling you so would have run the fun.

And yes, this movie to me is above all other MCU movies and it is not a good-feely movie like The Avengers or Guardians of The Galaxy but a rather somber approach-

What did the airport scene for me (yes i will talk about him) is that if you notched and (I did after the second view) that even Tony who is usually the jester at the fights was rather somber and emotional, he throws one jab or two but other than that he stands in horror as the Avengers beat the *beep* out of each other. The only one making jokes is Spider-Man. And this is because for him this is just a job to impress "Mr Stark", he has no emotional connections with any of them which makes his irreverence that much bigger.

As for Zemo he wasn't good, he was AMAZING. "I wanted to destroy them but I couldn't, more powerful men than me have tried. So I knew I could get them to destroy each other." I almost stood up to applaud, and Black Panther's speech moved me.

In the last fight I was Team Stark, I confess I wanted him to kill Bucky.

I have to ask:

Did Marvel make you like Spider-Man?

[–] kmac169 9 years ago

I was worried that all the soul and feeling and intensity of it would give you some sort of overdose but telling you so would have run the fun.

It almost went there, but I will salute the screen writers and directors for avoiding that trap, and still keeping the spirit of the overall MCU in the end.

I'm now even more interested to see what they do with much more 'out there' grander story of the Infinity War.

What did the airport scene for me (yes i will talk about him) is that if you notched and (I did after the second view) that even Tony who is usually the jester at the fights was rather somber and emotional, he throws one jab or two but other than that he stands in horror as the Avengers beat the *beep* out of each other. The only one making jokes is Spider-Man. And this is because for him this is just a job to impress "Mr Stark", he has no emotional connections with any of them which makes his irreverence that much bigger.

Oh yeah, I agree. But it was still much more of a feel good fight for the most part. With of course Spider-Man and Ant Man being the lighter more humorous of characters, and for the very reason you stated neither one was as emotionally attached to the situation like the other characters were. They were the two new guys brought in at the last moment, and they were both out to prove themselves to their respective sides.

And on the whole it was a great sequence, but there were also several others throughout the film as well that very few people touched upon. And like I said that last fight was just so much more intense even though it was just 3 guys.

In the last fight I was Team Stark, I confess I wanted him to kill Bucky.

Not for me. I completely understood Stark's anger and desire for revenge, but I still can not blame Bucky for those actions when he was basically stripped of his ability to chose and in a way stripped of his humanity at the time.

That line when Stark had Bucky in a headlock and angrily asked if he even remember Stark's parents and Bucky responded that he remembered every one... every kill. That's a haunted man... this was Jessica Jones style depth of the effects of mind control... in one damn line.

But oh that fight... one man consumed with the guilt of his actions that he was denied the ability to even consciously chose to do, one driven by the desire for revenge, and one driven to protect his longest and closest friend. So powerful... like it should have been.

As for Zemo he wasn't good, he was AMAZING. "I wanted to destroy them but I couldn't, more powerful men than me have tried. So I knew I could get them to destroy each other." I almost stood up to applaud, and Black Panther's speech moved me.

Absolutely. I just cannot understand those who say Zemo didn't matter or was a weak character or horribly used. He was anything but that. He fractured the Avengers in a way no other villain had... and all just for plain old simple revenge.

Oh and Black Panther's line there: "Vengeance has consumed you. It is consuming them. I'm done letting it consume me." (I think that is how it went).

While he wasn't a show stealer for me, he was still a good solid character with a good solid story arc.

Did Marvel make you like Spider-Man?

Not really. I didn't hate him, and I didn't really even get annoyed by him... so that is a plus. He just simply wasn't in it long enough for me to really judge. He was still a good and solid last minute addition, but again not enough for me to really judge. And because the airport fight kept it's momentum throughout jumping from scene to scene he never had the chance to possibly start to annoy me.

Probably if I had liked the character to begin with the scenes with him would have had more impact. But in the end for me, while they were still good scenes, they weren't standout ones.

For me Ant Man stood out much more, but then he already had a full movie for me to become attached to the character (and to actually say that is so weird, and a testament to what Marvel Studios had done with these characters). I particularly like the scene of him getting the shield back from Spider-Man, and especially with how he said "Here's your shield back Captain America." That and scene of him riding the arrow and getting into Tony's suit, especially with the "I'm your conscience" line.

Sanity is for the weak!

[–] GomezAddams666 9 years ago

It almost went there, but I will salute the screen writers and directors for avoiding that trap, and still keeping the spirit of the overall MCU in the end.

I'm now even more interested to see what they do with much more 'out there' grander story of the Infinity War.

The writing in my not so humble opinion was superb, outstanding. Nothing felt out of place

Oh yeah, I agree. But it was still much more of a feel good fight for the most part. With of course Spider-Man and Ant Man being the lighter more humorous of characters, and for the very reason you stated neither one was as emotionally attached to the situation like the other characters were. They were the two new guys brought in at the last moment, and they were both out to prove themselves to their respective sides.

It was odd the second time around because I noticed exactly that, half the characters are battling NOT trying to kill each other, measuring themselves and Ant-Man and Spidey kicking the **** out of everybody else.

Absolutely. I just cannot understand those who say Zemo didn't matter or was a weak character or horribly used. He was anything but that. He fractured the Avengers in a way no other villain had... and all just for plain old simple revenge.

He has jumped to the top of my list, NEXT TO LOKI IMO.

Seriously, he was that good, not a single punch and yet he did what Ultron promised, he ripped the apart from the inside.

While he wasn't a show stealer for me, he was still a good solid character with a good solid story arc.

Did I or did I not tell you T'Chaka would die an Bucky would be blamed?

Not really. I didn't hate him, and I didn't really even get annoyed by him...

Coming from you those are Giant Man's steps, now you will watch Spider-Man: Home Coming! 

I had to.

You have to admit tho that THIS IS the best version of Spider-man we have ever gotten.

[–] kmac169 9 years ago

The writing in my not so humble opinion was superb, outstanding. Nothing felt out of place

Pretty much. Of course the screen writers were the same guys who wrote both the previous Captain America movies.

None of the other MCU movies have really had that besides the Avengers, and in that case Whedon was pulling double duty as writer and director.

He has jumped to the top of my list, NEXT TO LOKI IMO.

Seriously, he was that good, not a single punch and yet he did what Ultron promised, he ripped the apart from the inside.

He also had the benefit of not having Ultron's ego and hubris inherited from Tony Stark.

Did I or did I not tell you T'Chaka would die an Bucky would be blamed?

Hey, I admit I seriously did not think they would go there for Civil War and save T'Chaka's death for the Black Panther solo film. But they did and it worked pretty damn well... it also means we basically just jump right into Black Panther being Black Panther for the solo film (though I do now wonder if Bucky will play a role in that movie).

You have to admit tho that THIS IS the best version of Spider-man we have ever gotten.

It's at least on par with the first two Spider-Man flicks so far... again not enough to go by for me at least.

I think whenever it comes to the Avenger films (or any other team up films) as long as the don't focus too much on him I'll be fine.

Sanity is for the weak!

[–] GomezAddams666 9 years ago

Pretty much. Of course the screen writers were the same guys who wrote both the previous Captain America movies.

None of the other MCU movies have really had that besides the Avengers, and in that case Whedon was pulling double duty as writer and director.

Okay, I'll give you that. IMO this is the best Superhero Trilogy of all times, coming from someone who actually loveed BB and TDK but hated Inception 2, I mean TDKR

OT: Why the **** does WB hire directors that think they're above the comics? This from the days of Burton, Schumacher, Nolan, Snyder. THIS is why they fundamentally fail. WB/DC hires "visionaries", the MCU hires Comic Book geeks that direct movies they can enjoy.

He also had the benefit of not having Ultron's ego and hubris inherited from Tony Stark.

James Spader has been on my top list for years, had he been more sinister or had he killed more people he would have been the greatest. But Darren Cross, Obadiah Stane and Helmut Zemo prove why Marvel villains are superior, they are just human beings, that just so happen to be evil Sons of bitches.

Hey, I admit I seriously did not think they would go there for Civil War and save T'Chaka's death for the Black Panther solo film.

Ok, I have to say this: Why would T'Chaka get involved if that didn't happen? We knew Klaw hadn't killed him and the Russos said he would be "still alive" on CW. I guessed everything we ever discussed beforehand, didn't I?

It's at least on par with the first two Spider-Man flicks so far... again not enough to go by for me at least.

Opening night for Spider-Man: Homecoming! 

Laughing (with you) aside, Marvel can turn anything into gold, even Spidey is back after The Twilight-Man SONY gave us

[–] kmac169 9 years ago

Okay, I'll give you that. IMO this is the best Superhero Trilogy of all times, coming from someone who actually loveed BB and TDK but hated Inception 2, I mean TDKR

I pretty much agree with all of what you wrote.
Though I have my fingers crossed that Cap's solo story/adventures won't stop here.

OT: Why the **** does WB hire directors that think they're above the comics? This from the days of Burton, Schumacher, Nolan, Snyder. THIS is why they fundamentally fail. WB/DC hires "visionaries", the MCU hires Comic Book geeks that direct movies they can enjoy.

*beep* if I know.
I think what helps the most on Marvel's side is they have Feige who isn't a director but a producer. He also has a general overall plan. And while that plan has been apparently too rigid for some directors others have had no issues with it (Gunn, Reed, the Russos).

James Spader has been on my top list for years, had he been more sinister or had he killed more people he would have been the greatest.

I think the animated face robbed Ultron of some of his menace. I noticed it more when while watching the movie at home in the background while working on other things and just listening to Spader deliver his lines. The man just had a great voice and delivery... they really didn't need the animated face in the end. Probably would have come across that much more menacing even with the quips.

But Darren Cross, Obadiah Stane and Helmut Zemo prove why Marvel villains are superior, they are just human beings, that just so happen to be evil Sons of bitches.

I agree. I also enjoyed Red Skull and Alexander Pierce.
Justin Hammer wasn't too bad either, though more slimy than straight up evil.

Ok, I have to say this: Why would T'Chaka get involved if that didn't happen? We knew Klaw hadn't killed him and the Russos said he would be "still alive" on CW. I guessed everything we ever discussed beforehand, didn't I?

I figured it would play out that T'Challa would be sent to the UN with an envoy and several of them would get killed in the explosion and T'Challa would somewhat rashly, though justifiably, temporarily don the Black Panther outfit and mantle to pursue revenge on the frame Bucky. And then in his solo movie his father would be killed by Klaw forcing T'Challa to grow up further and fully take on the role of king and Black Panther.

Guess I was wrong.

Sanity is for the weak!

[–] GomezAddams666 9 years ago

I pretty much agree with all of what you wrote.
Though I have my fingers crossed that Cap's solo story/adventures won't stop here.

Or we can get Nomad, I would fall to the floor if they did that. Not because I particularly like that phase of Rogers but because Marvel prove they have huge balls.

I think what helps the most on Marvel's side is they have Feige who isn't a director but a producer. He also has a general overall plan. And while that plan has been apparently too rigid for some directors others have had no issues with it (Gunn, Reed, the Russos).

DC needs a Feigi figure,hopefully NOT Nolam. But it starts at the directors, directors like the ones I previously mention and Bryan Singer admittedly do not read CB, what the ****?

Oh and Marvel's Black Panther is fairly political, it always has been. But when Marvel says Ava Duvernay is tooo far gone, what did the crazy bitch want to do?

I think the animated face robbed Ultron of some of his menace. I noticed it more when while watching the movie at home in the background while working on other things and just listening to Spader deliver his lines.

Being honest he has always had a stupid face, but that didn't stop him before. but they de-powered him so The Avengers could win, but I wanted the REAL Ultron, the one that could **** them up by himself, the immortal one, the psychopath one.

[–] 9 years ago

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