What does Leno do that's so bad?

I don't think it's his show that's causing the negative ratings so much as it is the haters who blame him for other things. For instance, the Letterman fans don't like him because they were disappointed NBC chose Jay over Dave to replace Carson over 20 years ago. Team CoCo doesn't like him because of the "Tonight Show" debacle 4 years ago wheN NBC replaced Jay with Conan, then lost faith in Conan and asked Jay to come back. Jay never wanted to leave in the first place, but still they condemn him for the failure of NBC's scheme. Add to that people who just want to join a big hate pile on (whether they understand the facts of the case or not) and the result is alot of IMDb users putting the show down for reasons other than the quality of the writing and performing.

I'm aware I sound like a broken record on these boards, but I want to answer the question as thoroughly as possible.

Leno's critics like to point out various perceived immoral or unprofessional behavior he exhibited during the two transition periods.

During the first transition, the two things his critics like to mention are when he hid in a closet to eavesdrop during an NBC meeting, and when his manager planted a false story in the newspaper implying that NBC was pushing Carson off Tonight to make room for Leno. Jay was unaware his manager did this, and when he found out, he fired her and has represented himself ever since. However, her actions continue to haunt him whenever the exact question you asked comes up.

During the second transition, something Leno was criticized for was the fact that, despite NBC's firing of him from The Tonight Show even though he was still #1 in the ratings, he chose to stick with that exact company that fired him instead of doing what Dave did and go to another network to try to compete with the executives who fired him. His critics say it appeared as though he was hanging around NBC waiting for Conan to fail so that he could get offered The Tonight Show back (the resentment lying in the notion that he'd rather stick it to a fellow late-night host than the network executives, as well as a perceived pathetic attempt to cling onto the only thing he seems to value in life, The Tonight Show, even after losing it). He has also been criticized for a monologue he delivered on his show in 2004 promising his retirement in 2009 and a smooth transition to Conan O'Brien.

With the advent of the internet and social media, the second late-night conflict was much more of a publicity nightmare for all parties involved than the first one was. The general consensus is that the media ultimately portrayed Conan as the good guy who got back-stabbed by NBC and Leno, NBC executives as the incompetent businessmen who screwed up late-night television again (NBC CEO Jeff Zucker later revealed to have received death threats during this time period; he was fired shortly thereafter), and Leno as the evil manipulator who will do whatever it takes to screw everyone out of The Tonight Show. Now where exactly does the truth actually lie? It's hard to tell. The media likes to exaggerate and make things very "black and white." Leno's perceived "evilness" most likely wasn't nearly as extreme as the media would have led you to believe. But there had to be a bad guy to make this a good story, and Leno got stuck with that label. Probably because of his aforementioned history during the first transition.

Alien and I have discussed this to death, and I personally think we both make very valid points. Our verbal spars are all over these boards. Ultimately, there's no right or wrong answer. Usually, the one thing everyone agrees on is that NBC is run very poorly and it's their executives who contribute the most to these conflicts.

I don't think it's his show that's causing the negative ratings so much as it is the haters who blame him for other things...and the result is alot of IMDb users putting the show down for reasons other than the quality of the writing and performing.

It's mostly brainless idiotic Coco fans who smeared Leno with low ratings because that goofball Conan couldn't tell a decent joke if his life depended on it!

Jay is DA MAN! DA KING!

Since you mentioned you are not well acquainted with Jay and his show, I offer this broadened view of the controversies listed in the post above.

During the first transition, the two things his critics like to mention are when he hid in a closet to eavesdrop during an NBC meeting,

NBC talked Jay out of going to CBS, where he could've had his own show at 11:30. They did this with a contractual guarantee that he would inherit The Tonight Show when Johnny Carson was ready to retire. However, when that time came and Dave Letterman threatened to leave, too, NBC decided to give the show to Dave. Outraged by this betrayal and waste of precious time he could've spent building a future at CBS, Jay decided to turn the tables on NBC by ducking into a maintenance room to listen to a conference call among the very people who'd double crossed him. He did this to try and find out what they were actually planning to do about him and the next 20+ years of his professional life. Further, there's no evidence what he learned from that call actually got Jay The Tonight Show. Anyways, Letterman took a pass and went CBS instead, and that's basically how Jay got the show.


and when his manager planted a false story in the newspaper implying that NBC was pushing Carson off Tonight to make room for Leno. Jay was unaware his manager did this, and when he found out, he fired her and has represented himself ever since. However, her actions continue to haunt him whenever the exact question you asked comes up.

NBC was at least considering dropping Johnny; he was losing alot of younger viewers to Arsenio Hall. However, no actual plan was implemented to remove him, and Carson (probably sensing, at 67, that he'd had his day) chose to retire. Drebin is quite correct that Jay does, indeed, appear to live under the curse of what his ill-tempered and ethically-challenged manager pulled behind his back.

During the second transition, something Leno was criticized for was the fact that, despite NBC's firing of him from The Tonight Show even though he was still #1 in the ratings, he chose to stick with that exact company that fired him instead of doing what Dave did and go to another network to try to compete with the executives who fired him.

It should also be noted that Conan O'Brien himself rejected a 20 million dollar offer to jump to FOX in 2001. ABC was interested in having Jay come there, but a Jay Leno show at 11:35 on ABC would've necessatated bumping Kimmel's show later into the night, and possibly bumping or cancelling the long-running news show, Nightline. Clearly, no matter what his detractors felt he should've done, there were hitches and potential risks.

His critics

These would principally be David Letterman, who's held a grudge against Jay for 20 years over NBC's decision to pass him over as host of The Tonight Show, and Howard Stern, a radio shock jock and longtime Letterman friend whose accusations against Jay have been labelled as "over-the-top"; and sometimes appear to be nothing more than idle speculation without proof to back it up. Further, Howard actually told Jay in an interview that NBC was smart to have hired him, then years later kind of contradicted himself when he told Dave Letterman "Jay snatched the Tonight Show from you".


say it appeared as though he was hanging around NBC waiting for Conan to fail so that he could get offered The Tonight Show back
(the resentment lying in the notion that he'd rather stick it to a fellow late-night host than the network executives,

Not sure what Drebin means here by sticking it to a fellow late-night host. It almost sounds like a suggestion that Jay made his own 10pm show fail in order to get his old job back, a theory that author of The War For Late Night Bill Carter has publically dismissed as unlikely.


as well as a perceived pathetic attempt to cling onto the only thing he seems to value in life, The Tonight Show, even after losing it).

I don't know how Drebin feels qualified to say with any certainty that The Tonight Show is the only thing Jay Leno values in life. Wonder if he's aware of all of Jay's charitable works over the years?


He has also been criticized for a monologue he delivered on his show in 2004 promising his retirement in 2009 and a smooth transition to Conan O'Brien.

The salient point that's often skipped over when mention is made of this announcement is that Jay was actually fired from The Tonight Show by NBC in order to keep Conan with the network. Announcing this fact would almost certainly have caused great embarrassment to NBC (with whom Jay hoped to be able to work with as he completed the last 5 years of his contract), and could potentially have made Conan look like an ambitious guy who wanted Jay out his way. Also, Jay did not have the power to hand the show over to anybody because it belongs to NBC. But some haters to this day think Jay wanted to retire, and then just changed his mind. This could not be further from the truth. Jay's comments regarding his eventual departure was his attempt to maintain an accepting and cheerful demeanour over a business decision that wasn't benefiting him at all.

Usually, the one thing everyone agrees on is that NBC is run very poorly and it's their executives who contribute the most to these conflicts.

I do agree with Drebin that the excutives at NBC (particularly Mr. Zucker, and Mr. let's-bump-The Tonight Show-to-12:05 Gastin are primarily responsible for what is perhaps the biggest blunder in television history. It failed economically, hurt both Conan and Jay professionally and personally, and the sad thing is most people who were so angry about this don't even know the names Zucker and Gastin. They just lazily pin the blame entirely on the guy with the big chin, even though Jay's the one who actually got screwed first.



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I don't think it's his show that's causing the negative ratings so much as it is the haters who blame him for other things...and the result is alot of IMDb users putting the show down for reasons other than the quality of the writing and performing.
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I think it's both. Personally, aside from all of the above, I also find him to be rather unfunny and not very talented. I think his comedy is very bland, safe, and predictable. I'd rather see someone take chances with their art, even if it risks offending someone.

I never hear an example of this risk-taking style of comedy other comedians favour that Jay would not.


Any time I have watched Leno's show, with the exception of his monologue, it seems to me like he and the writing staff put in the least amount of work out of all the late-night shows (i.e. a lot of jokes are taken from third-party sources: his two signature bits, Headlines and Jaywalking, for example, require no comedic ability to write; they are simply a compilation of articles and regular citizens on the street, respectively).

Jimmy Kimmel likes to go out on the street, too and ask people things like what did you think of the Oscars; when they haven't been broadcast yet, or do you like the new Pope; when Benedict's successor had not yet been chosen. It's very much like Jay Walking. Dave would sometimes play old records by unlikely singers such as Leonard Nimoy. That doesn't take a lot of writing on his part either.


Side Note: To go back to the original question, Leno has also been accused of stealing comedy bits,

So, ironically, is Howard Stern, one of Jay's biggest critics.

His Headlines bit is strikingly similar to Dave's Small Town News bit

They both use newspapers for material. Again, something that (as Drebin points out) requires little comedic ability to write. Dave seems to go for odd stories in these small town venues, wheras Jay presents funny misprints and ironic placement of words like wedding announcements for couples with uncomfortable last names like: BUTT & DICK Wedding Announced. Anyways, Dave doesn't hold a patent on looking to the fourth estate for comedy material. In fact, both Steve Allen and Mort Saul were doing it years before Jay and Dave had talk shows.


Howard Stern also accuses Leno of going behind his back to persuade John Melendez (who then worked for Stern) to come be his announcer. Still, Leno's supporters have defended him on this subject.

It's the employee, not his boss, who makes the decision about whether or not to move to a new job. Besides, it was a good opportunity for Melendez, so why deny him a chance for advancement? Anyways, it's the least Howard could do after all the money he's probably made bashing Jay over the years. Speaking of going behind people's backs, nobody seems to mind that Conan never went to Jay directly to see how he felt about the idea of stepping aside. He let NBC take care of that so he could get what he wanted: Jay's job.

Leno, from the beginning, is not the problem with Leno's show. The lame bits/sketches are. Leno doesn't write the lame bits. He just participates in them. He's the hired bass player in the band after the original guy died. He always will be.

"I said no camels, that's five camels, can't you count?"

Because bitter Coco fans still think Leno was the mastermind behind this elaborate conspiracy to get O'Brien fired from NBC.

Mean. He's just plain mean to his guests. Just horrible.

I never thought anything bad about Leno, I just didn't think he was all that funny. Obviously a lot of people do though, he had the highest ratings of late night shows most of the time.

That being said, I don't think Jimmy Fallon will be able to generate the same ratings as Leno - he's just too goofy. But its still a win for NBC because Fallon has a smaller salary, smaller band, smaller set - they save money even if less people watch.