Saw that film yesterday, found it great... and it rang a few bells actually from old stories, you keep in the back of your memory...
But well, noticed how long the car left headlight remains broken after he hits the mailbox ? When he leaves after finding the house empty, it still is. The next scene, is the car-wash and now it's fixed... If he was in such a hurry I doubt he would have it done at that very moment in the story...
Liked the opening music too, but I wonder if the film wasn't depicting Jews in a rather negative way ?
hmmm, i haven't seen this movie for a long time - the way i remember it is that it seemed like it took an inordinate amount of time before he fixed the headlight, which is so uncharacteristic of the character....i think my date remarked "why doesn't he fix that?" maybe the editing is a bit choppy there....
I think story could be better though it shooted in 1980's atmosphere. I enjoyed the film . I didn't expect good films especially in tv late night in TURKEY. But I read Susan Sarandon nominated Golden Globe for her role and I decided to watch. Maybe relationship with older women can give more happiness , who knows I also like musics but I coulnd't find anywhere in internet.
i dont think the headlight was fixed until after she left him because he was so consumed with his relationship with her. dont get me wrong. I loved Nora...but letting the headlight go was trying to show us how he was becoming more like her. When she left, he started taking care of things the "old" Max would have never let slide.
This movie, set in the "show me" state of Missouri, has indeed showed me something I thought I'd never see--Jews living in, of all places, St. Louis. ;-) Anyone catch who plays Spader's mom and Jason Alexander's fiancee/wife? The same actresses who play nanny Fran Fine's mother and friend respectively in "The Nanny", that's who.
As for the question on negative stereotyping, I can say "No." As someone who grew up in a Jewish household in Brooklyn, NY, the director did a great job portraying a circle of Jewish people without stereotyping them in a negative way--they're all just fussy enough without being obsessive.
Jewish couples are FOREVER trying to pair up Jewish singles--it's like marriage guilt. Middle-aged Jewish men are always talking about the wretched state of politics and government, particularly if they didn't do anything to change it. Middle-aged Jewish women are fussbudgets who see crisis and drama in everything no matter how trivial and don't so much as invite as demand ("So you'll come get me and take me to Thanksgiving, right?")
Maybe they put a little too much emphasis on the ethnic/religion angle in this film, but they didn't take the stereotypes to any extreme. In fact, watching it got me all "verklempt." ;-)
I'm watching the movie right now, and am able to rewind through it. I think it's possible that the fixed headlight is intentional. The three scenes after he leaves the house is the carwash (headlight is fixed), the invitation to Heidi Soloman's brunch to cheer Max up from the breakup, and then the party. Obviously, these 4 things didn't happen in one day. I think the movie is trying to show that after he resumed his normal life, Max remained in love with Nora.
Believe me, it's not just Jewish mothers who demand and expect. I have a Catholic one who always says to me, "I want you to do so and so." After I do it (like a fool), there is never a thank you. I have found in my age group (baby bloomer and a bit older)a lot of women are becoming pissed at their mothers and sometimes don't even like them. I think our mothers are living too long.
This film makes St. Louis look like it's inhabited totally by Jews, when in fact it's just a small percentage! It seems like every Hollywood movie set in St. Louis has the demographics wrong. St. Louis is not 90% Jewish or 90% Black or 90% White trash! It's a nice place to live & raise kids! We have about 15-20% blacks, and smaller minority populations of Hispanics, Asians, and other nationalities, including a growing Bosnian community.
Maybe if the people making the movies would actually do some research they'd get it right once in a while!
RE: "St Louis is not 90% Jewish or 90% Black or 90% White trash! It's a nice place to live & raise kids!"
(A) I'm sure you are correct about the ethnic composition of St Louis.
(B) However, presumably you did not mean to imply it would NOT be a nice place to live if the population were 90% Jewish or Black/African-American.
(C) If Max's mother mainly socialises with other Jewish people, then it is not surprising that there were proportionately more Jewish people in the film than in St Louis as a whole. It is not a film about a representative cross-section of St Louis, it is about Max and Nora and the people with whom they associate.
"Jews are not an ethnicity. They are a religion." -------------------------------------------------
I stand corrected. However, as far as I know, the majority of Jews are born into Jewish families rather than being converts to Judaism. So IMHO, it is both an ethnicity and a religion.
I haven't read the book and it's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I think it's pretty accurate. You're right, St. Louis isn't inhabited totally by Jews. If you live in the St. Louis area, then you know that St. Louis is more than the City of St. Louis (which is only 66 square miles). You also know how segregated the area is. Most Jews in the St. Louis area live in the "central corridor" between Olive Blvd. and Clayton Rd.
Max lives in the eastern end of the corridor somewhere in the Clayton/University City area. The Horowitz house, where Max goes for Thanksgiving, is probably located in the Creve Coeur/Chesterfield area on the west end of the corridor. Nora lives in south St. Louis. She's a stereotypical "hoosier." Sure, the characters are based on stereotypes. But, you know what they say about stereotypes...
Remember, the book was published in 1987 and the movie was released in 1990. The war in what was once Yugoslavia didn't begin until 1992. The war is what led many Bosnians to leave Bosnia-Herzgovina and come to the United States.
You wrote, "it seems like every Hollywood movie set in St. Louis has the demographics wrong." Really? There are Hollywood movies set in St. Louis? I don't think so. There haven't been many movies made in, or set in, St. Louis. "King of the Hill (1993)" and "The Game of Their Lives (2005)" are both set in St. Louis. "King of the Hill" is based on the A. E. Hotchner book and is set in the 1930s. "The Game of Their Lives" is about the U.S. soccer team that played in the 1950 World Cup. I think they did some research. Frank Borghi, Gino Pariani and Harry Keough were actually in the movie. Did they get it right? "The Big Brass Ring (1999)" is also set in St. Louis. Did they get it right? Can you list any movies set in St. Louis that get it wrong?
Of course, calling any of the movies I've listed "Hollywood movies" is a bit of a stretch. They're low-budget independent movies, not big-budget Hollywood studio "blockbusters."
Well written and geographically-sound in my opinion. I'm also a native of Saint Louis and I think the actual demographics were a bit off, but it's been a few months since I had need to check.
A bit off-topic, but I noticed that White Palace was referenced to being related to White Castle, an "east coast" restaurant. For the record, it was started in Kansas. Not even sure if they exist in the East.
When I lived in Brooklyn for a year, I tried the White Castles there, and was horrified to find out that the standard way of serving them there is WITH KETCHUP! Yech! You have to specify if you don't want ketchup on them! And with ketchup, it just isn't the White Castle I grew up with in St. Louis.
I thought she was rather rude in the manner in which she responded as a guest at the dinner party to the hostess while in the bathroom. I saw nothing wrong in the way they had treated her prior to that. Perhaps it was the frustration and resentment of being working class poor suddenly in the company of affluent people.
Well maybe it was just that she was half in the bag, and was in a fight or flight situation (at least in her own mind), and this was her only defense.
It seemed very plausible to me.
Anyway, Max's Mother's remarks of "What is that?" and "She's no spring chicken" was coming through in the mannerisms of many of the people at the Thanksgiving party, and Nora just snapped.
I agree, but I think her struggle was more internal than dealing with the dinner guests. The women were puzzled, however, not only because Nora was so different from Max's wife, but I felt they had other "prospects" for this fine catch and perhaps showed their resentment (subtlely).
I have to look at it again, but I felt that him not getting the headlight fixed was symbolic. He was no longer in a world where perfection was an issue.
As for the dipiction of Jews being negative? I don't think so. I'm from NY and it was pretty head on. It didn't make me feel uncomfortable (I'm pretty sensitive about that), as a matter of fact, I enjoy seeing dynamics of different cultures.
I think that Nora acted the way she did at the Thanksgiving party because she was really mad at Max. When she was introduced to the host and hostess (Max's best friends), she realized the woman was the one Max had been talking to at the market, and that meant Max had lied to her again.
Nora was getting her steam up for the argument she and Max were going to have when they got back to her place, and didn't care what kind of impression she made at the dinner table.
I missed that when I first saw the film, and couldn't understand why she was so upset. But the next time I saw the film, it clicked.
The woman in the bathroom wasn't the hostess, instead she was the lawyer's bitchy wife that Max's other friends didn't very much like.
"Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" - Will Rogers