I've just finished watching the new Special Edition DVD of this movie and had a scan through the extras. If you're reading this you must enjoy the movie enough to be considering whether or not this new version is worth your hard earned money.
I'd like to say that I always thought this film was not as bad as some people say (usually die hard fans of the first movie). Sure, its a flawed movie and is a disappointment after the original which is still a classic, but in terms of being a crap sequel I can easily name other sequels that are far worse (Speed 2, Star Trek 5, Gremlins 2, Starship Troopers 2, Robocop 2). "The Quickening" version of this movie was a confusing mess, but as chronicled in various areas this was not the fault of the filmmakers, more the fault of worried financial backers who took over the movie to complete it quickly and under budget, just so they could get the movie in theatres as quickly as possible. The Renegade version and now this version go a long way to help redeem this movie to some degree.
As for the new DVD, the big thing for me with this edition was the reported 'new digital effects' created for this release. Apparantly there are 100 new shots in the movie. From what I could see these are mainly all the shots involving the shield/shield control being visible, with some revamped background cityscapes thrown in for good measure. As someone who always thought the shield effects in the original cut looked terrible, removing the washy orange photographic shield effects in favour of this digital version could only have been an improvement. There are a few other shots that stood out as new: the DC9 aircraft in which Ramirez takes his first flight has been redone for the better, and there are a few shots when Macleod & Marcus get above the shield on the mountain top and look down onto it that work well. Bottom line: whilst the new effects aren't draw-dropping, they are effective in not being overly obvious when placed in a movie some 14 years old.
This movie is also slightly different to the Renegade version cut. On one viewing I did notice that a gun fight between McCloud and the guards at the shield corporation near the end of the film had been removed. Why this particular sequence has been taken out is bizarre, as the flow of the movie now seems to have been effected: instead we go from being on a mountain top looking down onto the shield straight into the shield core chamber where Macleod fights Katana. Anyone who has not seen previous versions of this movie may wonder just how the hell they got back into the core chamber in the first place.
The extras are average. By far the best extra is an hour long 'making of' documentary that focuses on the trials of working in Argentina. Whilst this doc touches on the troubles faced with the production in terms of the director not getting final cut, it doesnt quite cover it in the kind of detail I would've hoped.
So is this DVD worth the cash? Well, I have to say that it is the best version of the movie available. The anamorphic picture is superb in terms of detail and the new effects, whilst not as creative as what could have been, certainly give the picture a breath of fresh air. If you already own the Renegade version DVD I'd still say hang on to that as this DVD has no director's commentary, but you may still want to buy this version to sit alongside it on your DVD shelf.
Now if only they'd go back and give a few other movies a digital touch-up... The Black Hole anyone?
"If I want your opinion I'll beat it outta ya!" - Elvira
Thanks for posting that. I've always loved this movie, and despite having the Renegade Version on DVD, i've already ordered this new version. I'm glad to hear that this time the picture is anamorphic and hope the new DD-EX 5.1 and the DTS-ES audio tracks are good.
I watched my copy of it last Sunday. I thought much of the disc looked wonderful but many of the scenes were plagued by horrible edge enhancement. Because of the inconsistency of the encoding and the look of the disc, I rate it as the worst dvd I own. Was wondering what you thought of it as an overall presentation.
I tried not to dislike the movie, but I couldn't, the 1st half of the movie is just bad, with all of the "over the top" scenes and bad effects, the second even the non-existant history becomes bad and add a little salt in time travel with some corporal greedy, what about that romance? it existed only to exist in the movie, nothing more.
I didn't hate it, but I think a 4/10 is a very generous grade.
I think the director's cut (renegade and now special edition) at least salvages the available material and transforms it into a watchable movie. The primary problem is that the original cut was so horrific that certain fans - such as my wife and brother-in-law - refuse to watch the revision. In my opinion the filmakers made a worse mistake by 'ignoring' this movie's timeline when they made the third movie. Of course, the worse visual is the Highlander's eventual death - the accompanying effects weren't worthy of a rookie immortal - let alone one of the most powerful beings.
all in all, the original poster's comments lead me to wait till this hits the 19.99 range and then buy it - though the removal of the gun fight seems innane. When will studios learn that the customer who has already invested in a VHS, early DVD, and now a 'special edition' DVD - always want's MORE material, not less.
Not to knock you, or the film, any more than necessary -- heck, I just bought the Highlander 2 Special Edition because I have an odd love for the film -- but a new coat of paint really can't solve what's wrong with this movie.
First off, it's a bad sequel, and worse than all of the others you mention. It doesn't have to do with the quality per se, it has to do with the fact that it is so inconsistent with the first film, that's what makes it a bad sequel as opposed to a bad film.
Whether you call it Planet Zeist, or just "a time before recorded history," either way this film begins from a premise that "Immortals come from somewhere else." Right there it's contradicting the first film. Having Ramirez & MacLeod know each other before they met for the first time in the first movie doesn't really make sense. If they were going to use this for a premise they should have thrown in a line about how they'd get amnesia went they were sent into Earth's history. Why does this movie go to the trouble of making so many good references to the first and then dropping the ball on stuff like this? Even though "Planet Zeist" has been dropped, oddly the SE keeps Louise Marcus' speech where she says "so you come from another planet" and Connor says "something like that."
Then there's the strange case of Ramirez. This movie goes out of its way to portray him as "a visitor from Scotland" when the first movie clearly stated he was an Egyptian by birth who was working for the Spanish government. He had absolutely no connection to Scotland. So why in this movie, do bagpipes play every time he walks down the street? Why is his death song "Amazing Grace" played on bagpipes? The answer, obviously, is that filmmakers probably didn't want to confuse new viewers by telling them an obviously Scottish actor was supposed to by Egyptian, especially since the "new origin" said he was really from "somewhere else/Zeist" instead of Egypt. Then after misleading us to think he's Scottish for most of the movie, they throw in a line about how he still considers himself in the employ of the Spanish monarchy. That really doesn't make sense after they've spent so much time selling him as an immortal from another planet with a connection to Scotland. The only thing I can really accept is that he resurrected in Scotland because that's where he was killed in the first movie, although this movie never makes reference to his death at the hands of the Kurgan. It acts more like he and MacLeod haven't seen each other since they were exiled from the Immortal homeland.
Now you want to talk about why it's a bad movie as opposed to a bad sequel? Internal inconsistencies. Like the fact that in the SE cut, they refer to the fact that the reason Ramirez & MacLeod are rebels in the first place is because they possess the "unnatural immortality" as if it's something that only happens to a minority of people in that "other place/Zeist." Yet obviously, Katana and his henchmen also possess it even though they are not outcasts in their own society. Then if Louise Marcus' speech has any credibility, everyone from the "other place" is mortal there, and only immortal on Earth.
Let's talk about the "choice." When Ramirez & MacLeod are exiled, they're told that they will face other immortals on Earth until only one remains and collects The Prize. The Prize gives them a choice. Either they can return home, or they can stay on Earth and become mortal. It's pretty obvious that Connor DID make the choice after killing Kurgan, because he became mortal and aged. Yet, after 40 years and he's nearing death, the council tells Katana that "MacLeod has not made his choice yet, he can still return home." Of course that plot point has to exist, otherwise Katana has no reason to travel to Earth and attack Connor. It's just that the filmmakers wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted Connor to choose a mortal life so he could grow old and we could see the Highlander universe of the future, and yet they wanted to say he didn't make the choice so he'd still have a conflict with Katana. They can't have it both ways. In fact, Katana's henchmen and Connor both remind Katana of this, saying that Connor had chosen to grow old and die on Earth and in fact would have died of old age very soon, had Katana not sent more immortals after him that returned Connor his immortality. It seems very short-sighted that the writers wouldn't realize how false this motivation was. I mean, they could at least have built up the backstory between Connor & Katana so that Katana would have a personal grudge against Connor, and had THAT be the reason he followed Connor to Earth. It still might have been a weak motive, but it wouldn't have been as logically flawed.
I like Michael Ironside, you know, but he doesn't really capture the same quality as Clancy Brown did. Clancy seemed like a man who had just gone nuts. Ironside seems like he's trying really hard to play a nutzo character in a movie. He seems very phoney, but that's probably due in large part to the silly things the script has him doing or saying. The whole subway scene is just "crazy for crazy's sake" which I guess was meant to remind us of Clancy's car ride late in the first film but just misses the mark.
I also have to ask what was the point of doing a reshoot in '94 or '95 to give us the scene of Connor and Louise driving up to the mountain top and Katana attacking them along the way? It's like one minute, Katana and John McGinley are in the boardroom of Shield, and a minute later Katana is attacking Connor on the mountain, and a second later he's back in Shield with McGinley fretting about not being able to find Connor. In fact Katana tracks down Connor for like 4 seperate fights in the SE, and each time the fight just kind of trails off and Katana walks away and then gripes about not being able to find/kill Connor. It's like they were just making excuses to visit more locations and continue the fight later. It's like how Connor has to break into Shield to talk to his friend, the other scientist, to get the location of the "weak point" in the Shield, but he doesn't get it all, so he goes back and talks to Ramirez, and they have to break into the prison to talk to the Connor's friend again, then they have to drive up to the weak point to confirm what they already learned, then break back into Shield again to shut it down. There's like 4 or 5 road trips/break-ins too many in this sucker.
Anyway in conclusion, most of these problems exist in every version from The Quickening to the Renegade Edition to the Special Edition, none of the so-called "fixes" actually fixed any of these problems, mostly because filmmakers did not consider any of these to be problems. They were more concerned that the Shield was blue instead of orange or that "Planet Zeist" was actually "another planet far away in time and space but not called Zeist." I mean they also changed the crashed spaceship on Planet Zeist to some kind of ancient city but it doesn't change any of the things that happened there. I will admit that the new Shield effects look prettier (although the pretty blue Shield is nowhere near as ominous as the ugly orange one was), but effects are only as I said, a coat of paint on a still very flawed script.
"Let's talk about the "choice." When Ramirez & MacLeod are exiled, they're told that they will face other immortals on Earth until only one remains and collects The Prize. The Prize gives them a choice. Either they can return home, or they can stay on Earth and become mortal. It's pretty obvious that Connor DID make the choice after killing Kurgan, because he became mortal and aged. Yet, after 40 years and he's nearing death, the council tells Katana that "MacLeod has not made his choice yet, he can still return home." Of course that plot point has to exist, otherwise Katana has no reason to travel to Earth and attack Connor. It's just that the filmmakers wanted to have their cake and eat it too."
If you read the trivia on imdb it says that there was a deleted scene which hasnt made it into either the SE or RE that showed Katana watching the Conner/Kurgan fight and then when Conner wins Katana sends his little friends after him. The fact that he grows old i guess could be explained by the fact that sending guys through time or from another planet isnt an exact science and so they arrive 25 years after he has fought Kurgan. Still dam silly but makes a little more sense and i still have no idea why they didnt put that scene back in.
"Let's talk about the "choice." When Ramirez & MacLeod are exiled, they're told that they will face other immortals on Earth until only one remains and collects The Prize. The Prize gives them a choice. Either they can return home, or they can stay on Earth and become mortal. It's pretty obvious that Connor DID make the choice after killing Kurgan, because he became mortal and aged. Yet, after 40 years and he's nearing death, the council tells Katana that "MacLeod has not made his choice yet, he can still return home." Of course that plot point has to exist, otherwise Katana has no reason to travel to Earth and attack Connor. It's just that the filmmakers wanted to have their cake and eat it too."
If you read the trivia on imdb it says that there was a deleted scene which hasnt made it into either the SE or RE that showed Katana watching the Conner/Kurgan fight and then when Conner wins Katana sends his little friends after him. The fact that he grows old i guess could be explained by the fact that sending guys through time or from another planet isnt an exact science and so they arrive 25 years after he has fought Kurgan. Still dam silly but makes a little more sense and i still have no idea why they didnt put that scene back in.
First off, thanks for replying, I know that like all of us you are trying to make sense of this movie.
I'm aware of that scene and they do talk about it during the bonus features on the Special Edition and also IMDb trivia. Although even with that scene it would still be up to our audience speculation to make it fit. First off, even if the henchmen were erroneously sent through time to the wrong time (40 years late), Connor would still have already made his choice since he has chosen to stay on Earth as a mortal, that's why he's old.
But it's not just a matter of having sent them to the wrong time. In the Renegade/Special Edition, we see Katana and the Council watching Connor on their monitor and they're already viewing 2024 and Connor as an old man when they say "he has not yet made his choice" which doesn't make sense, because he obviously has made his choice by then, otherwise he wouldn't be an old man. Katana's henchmen also mention this when they tell Katana that Connor is already an old man and there's no point in travelling to 2024 to kill him since he'll soon die of old age anyhow.
So the Council was obviously either wrong when they explained the nature of the choice (that Connor could still choose to return home even after he had chosen to live on Earth as a mortal and age), or they were wrong when they said Connor hadn't made his choice yet, and Katana either just believed their bogus information, or he went after Connor for revenge or something other than fearing Connor's return to the Immortal homeland. I know this whole movie was thick with retcons, I just wish they had taken a few more passes at the script to iron out these problems and at least created a retcon that fit all the facts.
*edit*
You know, I just had a thought that would make this whole section of the plot work for me. What if the Council lied to Katana? Think about it. We've already been told that the only reason Connor, Ramirez and their group are outcasts and are being exiled is because they possess the unnatural immortality. Katana and his henchmen obviously possess it too. Maybe the Council is simply afraid to act against Katana because he's so powerful. So maybe Connor wins the Prize and elects to remain on Earth and age instead of returning to the Immortal world and conquering Katana. Now the Council is screwed because they were secretly hoping that Connor would come back and topple Katana. So they lie to Katana and tell him that Connor can still return home if he chooses to (even though they know he can't). This forces Katana to send someone else after Connor. Every time another Immortal is sent to Earth, there's a new Prize up for grabs, and the Council knows that Connor may tire of fighting Katana's endless stream of henchmen and eventually use one of these new Prizes to return home to the Immortal world and put an end to Katana. Or the other thing happens, Katana himself follows Connor to Earth for a final confrontation, and now the Council are rid of him. As seen in the movie, when Katana finally confronts Connor he says he will prevent Connor from returning home but Connor tells him he has already made his choice 40 years earlier. Imagine Katana's rage at discovering the Council has sold him a bill of goods and he's gotten himself exiled to Earth for no good reason. Now Katana's motivation becomes to win the Prize so he can go home and have his revenge on the Council. And I think that rage would go a long way towards explaining why Katana is such a goofy bastard in this movie.
Connor's motivation, on the other hand, it took me a long while to figure out (until recently watching the Special Edition) that we're told that "no power on Earth can destroy the Shield." Obviously he wants to kill Katana so he can use the power of the Prize to destroy the Shield. I'd never quite understood how he magically stepped into the beam and shut down the Shield. Especially since you already see Katana's quickening complete before he does that. But this time I noticed that after the Shield beam dissipates, Connor is surrounded by swirling energy that looks like the Prize from the first movie. I don't know if that effect is new to the Special Edition or if I just never noticed it before, but that makes more sense now.
Im not sure on the exact order of things in the film, but is it possible that the priests say the business about Conner not having made the choice immediately following the battle with Kurgan? It should go before the bit with Katana sending his goons off but i cant remember this happens before or after the priest bit...