-The narrative flow is significantly better. It still moves at a pretty break-neck pace, but it's slowed down just enough to allow the audience to better connect with the characters/story than in the theatrical cut.
-Characters and motivations are more clearly established, especially in the first 45 minutes. Ex. We spend about 15 extra minutes with Boone, Decker and Lori before Boone's death, and it's definitely a well-appreciated 15 minutes, because it gives us more key moments to attach to the characters. There are also a few more character-development beats peppered into the film, which helps more.
-The story, on the whole, feels more developed and “complete.” It's a more fulfulling watch from the perspective of a film.
-The new ending feels more appropriate and better suited to the film, as opposed to the somewhat generic cliffhanger the theatrical cut ended on.
The Bad...
-The editing is still fairly messy and can be incredibly jarring and sloppy. I think this isn't totally the fault of those who worked on the new cut (it seems like some footage was still missing), but it does negatively impact the film at times.
-The sound mixing has some significant issues in key moments. Repeated looping of the same music beats, weird changes to the score and dialog at times, etc. (Ex. When Narcisse is peeling away his face at the hospital, there's a really awkward remix of the music and screaming that doesn't work for several seconds, before it randomly cuts back to the theatrical version's more appropriate score. Same when Decker falls to his death- a few seconds of new sound/music editing that doesn't work before it cuts back to the original score.)
-As in the theatrical cut, the final battle is too long and choppy. Also, the death of Narcisse is incredibly anti-climactic and just sort-of feels like it comes out of nowhere.
Overall...
Despite some issues with the editing, sound mixing and pacing with the final battle, I think that the Director's Cut is still a substantial improvement over the theatrical cut, and I'm pleased to report that it's definitely a worthy buy. A phenomenal effort, and for what they had to work with, this is likely the best possible edition of the film at this time.
Easily one of the best and most dramatic extended or director's cuts to come out in some time.
(And I would say that the extra special features and inclusion of the theatrical cut in the Limited Edition makes it worth buying for hardcore fans, despite the inflated price.)
And FURTHERMORE, this is my signature! SERIOUSLY! Did you think I was still talking about my point?
I thought it made the movie far worse than the orginal cut, just glad I wasn't one of those idiots that paid money for it...
You sound like a petty person who feels envious over the fact that you couldn't afford the new cut, so you offer up cheap jabs like this in the hopes that it makes you feel better. Have fun with that.
To the OP, I agree with your points. It does slow the story down just enough to allow us to connect with the characters, while not becoming too slow to bog the overall pacing down. It is much more in line with the story Barker wrote in the book, Cabal, which is a reason for fans to give it a shot. The theatrical cut, while not a bad movie, does change around and omit so much for the sake of action that it is too rushed and devoid of real character investment. It is worth mentioning, though, that the death of Narcisse is from the book. I disagree that it comes out of nowhere. It's just different from what you are used to.
I agree with you about the editing and music recycling as well. While I think they did a good job in some of the scenes, others seem quite clunky. Having watched it a few times, most of the clunkier edits and questionable music re-arrangements come during the first half of the film. One piece of music that really annoys me is when Decker's theme is slapped over the moment where Boone awakens in Midian. It is awkward and simply unneeded. It ruins the quite creepiness of haunted voices and the sudden roar of a shadowy unseen monster before Kinski grabs Boone. To boot, nothing here was edited, so I can't imagine who thought it was a good idea to mess with the music right here. They ruined the scene.
In the booklet that comes with the film, Mark Miller mentions that there is still some missing footage. They found most, but not all of it. I am sure that impacted the new edit a bit here and there.
- - - - - - - Whose idea was it for the word LISP to have an S in it? reply share
It's a pretty good commentary, I think. Clive Barker and Mark Miller are rather engaging, though there were a couple of dead spots. I liked hearing the stories from Clive about working with the cast, in particular Charles Haid who plays Capt. Eigerman.
- - - - - - - Whose idea was it for the word LISP to have an S in it?
Clive is rather soft-spoken and mannered, and in one story he said that he was trying to get everyone's attention on the set, and no one was really listening like they should. One can imagine all the flurry on a movie set such as this. In any case, Charles Haid stepped up and spoke loudly, telling everyone to pay attention to their director, then he gave it over to Clive. I am not relating the story word for word, as I would have to get the Bluray out and play it again, but I really thought that was quite cool of Charles Haid! Clive said that Haid was a lot of fun to work with and that he LOVED playing the character of Eigerman.
- - - - - - - Whose idea was it for the word LISP to have an S in it?
Decker was never meant to be central to what the novel Cabal, which Nightbreed was based on, was about. He exists merely as an antagonist which pushes our main characters into action. He's there to set up Boone as a murderer, which is the catalyst that will lead him to Midian. Barker has some fun with the Decker character in his murderous actions, but basically he is just a psycho who gets a thrill from carving people up. He isn't interested in the Nightbreed so much as killing Boone and Lori because they know his secret. Decker is somewhat of a generic character in the book, but like I said, he is NOT central to the plot and only serves as a catalyst. He adds some thrills and scares to the story, but a lot more is going on with Cabal than a slasher villain killing people. The novel served as a sort of coming out of the closet for Barker and has sometimes been referred to as the gayest monster story ever told. There are lots of allegories that Barker is focused on in telling his tale, and none have to do with a serial killer, per se.
I obtained the new "Cabal and Other Annotations", which did mention in one of the essays that three factions of the monstrous side of humanity are on display in the characters of Eigerman who represents the failure of law, Ashberry who represents the failure of religion, and Decker who represents the failure of science and who masquerades as a healer.
Decker doesn't know anything about Midian's existence in the book. Decker is merely concerned with using Boone's troubled past as a way to pin his crimes on him. Boone knows of Midian only through whispers heard from others he had encountered during his time in mental wards, a place promising forgiveness which he now feels he needs since he believes himself to be a murderer. Decker only becomes aware of Midian in his efforts to track Boone down after he apparently isn't dead after being shot down. Like I said, though, Midian and the Nightbreed aren't really Decker's concern. He simply wants to kill Boone so as not to be exposed.
Barker changes his own story and expands it in the film. He added a mythological aspect to the story where Boone is not only aware of Midian, but plagued by dreams of it. As the story unfolds we see that Boone has been prophesied (as depicted on the Mural). Boone is destined to lead the Breed into a new world, the man who unmade Midian. There is a line in the script that mentions him being the seventh savior of Midian, though I am not sure if this was ever actually filmed or not. In any case, this element is new to the story and adds some interesting facets overall that I think works well. I very much enjoy the mythological underpinning that Barker added.
Decker does not believe in the Midian that Boone tells about and dreams about. They simply discuss it in his therapy. As you can see in the film, Boone is at a point where he knows that it is all just dreams and fantasies, so even though the dream continues, he dismisses them. Decker only stumbles across Midian because he and the authorities follow Boone there, and the disappearance of Boone's body poses a possible threat that he is not dead and could still expose him. Remember the tape Decker listens to?
Decker: "Death is the end, Boone."
Boone: "No, in Midian it isn't. In Midian I live forever. So maybe death isn't the end, doc."
This enrages Dr. Decker and he smashes the recorder. Decker feels threatened by the great what if. What if there was more to what Boone was talking about? What if he really is alive? What are the chances that he found a place in the real world called Midian and that is where he "died"? What if death really isn't the end, as Boone proclaimed? This is why Decker is motivated to follow Lori. He knows that Boone still being alive isn't really possible (or shouldn't be), but he must cover all of his tracks. It is important that Boone not be allowed to tell his secret. What ifs! There is enough strange things that seem a bit more than coincidence to fuel his pursuit of this great what if.
In the original cut of the film, audiences didn't understand Decker's motivation. The first cut had Decker wanting to slaughter the Nightbreed, which seemed to come out of nowhere. Reshoots were ordered to beef up the Decker character, mainly because the studio was only interested in making Decker a central character (hence his resurrection at the end). Barker wisely crafted a new scene starring John Agar in which Decker pays the old man a visit and tortures him to find out about the Nightbreed and whether they can die or not. Barker also uses this opportunity to make a connection between why Decker kills families and thus why this would carry over into a desire to kill the Breed.
Decker: "I've cleaned up a lot of breeders. Families like cesspools. Filth making filth making filth...and I did it over and over and over again, but it was all leading me here. I was born to destroy them and the Breed together."
I am glad Barker opted to keep this sequence in the director's cut. The film version of Decker feels that he has a mission to fulfill in his murders, cleaning up the filth that keeps on breeding. This scene doesn't really make Decker center stage, but simply establishes a better motive for his hatred of the Nightbreed as he rallies the authorities to fight a battle which he can't win on his own.
The biggest mistake the theatrical cut made was the studio's desire to turn it into somewhat of a slasher film by adding more Decker scenes. Some new Decker scenes are welcome, actually, but the resurrection at the end was terrible (well, cool scene but one that doesn't make good sense in context of the story). Decker was meant to stay dead. Decker is not intended to carry forward in sequels. His purpose has been played out. He is the catalyst that drove Boone to Midian. That is his sole importance to the story more than anything else. He was never intended to take on such an important role as a resurrected monster teamed with Ashberry.
I hope I didn't babble too much here. I do love Cabal and Nightbreed quite a bit and have been a fan for twenty-four years now. The movie I saw in theaters and it inspired me to read the book.
- - - - - - - Whose idea was it for the word LISP to have an S in it?
As a horror fan, one of the things I love about Nightbreed is the serial killer-slasher vs. supernatural creatures aspect of the film. It's two sub-genres within horror colliding on screen. That's never been done before (or since.) It's like if Hannibal Lecter met Dracula. Clive Barker loves the monsters movies of the 1930s... Dracula, Frankenstein, Freaks and Island of Lost Souls... Nightbreed is an homage to those classic movies. But Barker has said that he HATES the slasher films that dominated the 1980s. So, why is there a slasher character in this story? Well, Dr. Decker is the main villain of the story and obviously suppose to represent the slasher genre (that had dried up by 1989). It's interesting how Barker depicts the character of Dr. Decker. Barker doesn't glamorize him. He is the complete antithesis to such horror icons like the tragic sympathetic Jason and the darkly comical Freddy. People root for these characters. However, you cannot root for Decker... he is a vile, manipulative and horrible human being who enjoys slaughtering children, not dumb horny teenagers. The opening murder scene in Nightbreed is scarier than anything in Friday the 13th or A Nightmare on Elm Street. At the end of the film, the main character Boone thankfully triumphs over and kills Decker. This is Clive Barker saying "Goodbye vapid juvenile slashers of the 80s, now let's bring back the imaginative monster genre for the 90s."
However, the studio hated everything about the film, with the expectation of Dr. Decker. They thought there was franchise potential with this slasher character, because of Jason Voorhees and Freddy Krueger, and forced Clive Barker to recut and reshoot Nightbreed; trimming down the monsters, the main love story and adding in new sequences resolving around Dr. Decker to make him a larger character including a new ending where he is resurrected for further installments. Barker did the best he could to make it all feel organic to the film he had made. But so much of Nightbreed ended up on the cutting room floor and the focus of the story shifted onto to Dr. Decker; it wasn't Clive Barker's vision anymore. Nightbreed bombed at the box office and made no impact on the genre. The early 90s was a dead zone for horror. In 1996 Hollywood made the smug self-aware Scream which, instead of Nighbreed, became THE horror film of the 90s. It celebrated slasher films and sadly regenerated the sub-genre...
In 1996 Hollywood made the smug self-aware Scream which,...became THE horror film of the 90s. It celebrated slasher films and sadly regenerated the sub-genre...
God, I hated that film. Whenever I wind up feeling sorry for the bad guy(s), I know the film is gonna blow. I'm glad I never saw any of the dumb sequels.
reply share
You sound like a petty person who feels envious over the fact that you couldn't afford the new cut, so you offer up cheap jabs like this in the hopes that it makes you feel better. Have fun with that.
I'm doubtful the poster couldn't afford $ 25... just he's not a Nightbreed fan and doesn't like the new editing, simply. Certainly he's not polite to call idiot who bought the new cut, but I couldn't care less.
I don't mind someone not liking the new cut. Different strokes for different folks. But he chimed in like a jerk and added nothing to the OP's post, so I called him out for what he is.
- - - - - - - Whose idea was it for the word LISP to have an S in it?
Know what u mean about the editing, it was really weird that lylesbergs (voiced by the legend doug bradley) at the end reverted back to the original german actors voice,rachels sounded different at certain scenes as well, just little but noticeable things, same with the subtitles, last last scene with ashberry and the cop one of the subtitles says,you got burned mate, instead of what was actually said, i actually laughed when i saw that lol brilliant movie though overall, hell of an improvement over the theatrical cut, could have done without the singing scene though, i would have put decker and the mask scene in instead of that.