MovieChat Forums > Nightbreed (1990) Discussion > Nightbreed is an oddity in movie history

Nightbreed is an oddity in movie history

posted 13 years ago by Hollowshape
31 replies | jump to latest

Although I like Nightbreed a lot, it's a movie that feels incomplete, not only due to the fact that it was heavily edited, but also because, well, it was intended as the first part of a trilogy. Barker had envisioned it as "the Star Wars of horror". Ambitious.

It's interesting. The majority of movie trilogies/franchises have been accidental. Star Wars, The Godfather, The Matrix, Back to the Future, Halloween, A Nightmare on Elm Street, Hellraiser, etc. A movie becomes a surprise hit, and the studio wants to make a sequel. Generally, sequels suck and are unnecessary. There are good sequels, sure, but even the best ones are still unnecessary.

Nightbreed is an oddity in movie history... a movie that actually needed sequels, and didn't get any... Shame, the world would have been a much better place with less terrible Hellraiser sequels and two Nightbreed sequels.

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 13 years ago

Nightbreed is an oddity in movie history... a movie that actually needed sequels, and didn't get any... Shame, the world would have been a much better place with less terrible Hellraiser sequels and two Nightbreed sequels.

Very true, Xtroid.

I'm pretty sure you're dead wrong about Star Wars, though, as I was told that Georg Lukas already had all six films planned out, plot-wise, before he even made the first.

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´

[–] Hollowshape 13 years ago

I'm pretty sure you're dead wrong about Star Wars, though, as I was told that Georg Lukas already had all six films planned out, plot-wise, before he even made the first.

No, I'm pretty sure that's a lot of baloney.

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 13 years ago

OK then, obviously saying that several people (including another, at that time film student) said so isn't enough, so I dug up a quote from George Lukas, about writing the script before he filmed the first film:

It wasn't long after I began writing Star Wars that I realized the story was more than a single film could hold. As the saga of the Skywalkers and Jedi Knights unfolded, I began to see it as a tale that could take at least nine films to tell — three trilogies — and I realized, in making my way through the back story and after story, that I was really setting out to write the middle story...

... So there you go. :)

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 13 years ago

I'm not sure what reading a script is supposed to prove? Even if he planned further movies, he wouldn't necessarily write that in the script. Also, I couldn't read them, as they were in a format that gave me a headache to read, but I did notice that the first was titles "Episode IV", which would back up what I said.

Also, I don't know anything about George Lukas being a liar, and I don't feel comfortable bagging some guy from the anonymity of my internet connection, but even if you say so, the quote I provided proves that he planned it as a trilogy of trilogies before the first film way made, and you haven't given me any reason to doubt what he said - especially since he was writing about the films, rather than it being some off-handed comment where people make mistakes all the time.

I mean, it's possible you might be right, but everything I've read and heard indicates that George Lukas planned a series of films well before the first film was made - he might not have had all the scripts written, but he had an outline of what would happen, and knew it would take several films to tell the whole story.

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´

[–] Cybernaut316 13 years ago

Sorry, Violet, but just quoting the guy is NOT proof.

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 13 years ago

I'll believe him about his own work over internet conspiracy theorists and people logging on here just to insult the guy.

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´

[–] Cybernaut316 13 years ago

Believe what you want; that's fine. But that is NOT proof.

[–] gluserty 12 years ago

[–] TheSolarSailor 12 years ago

The version of "Nightbreed" that was released felt unfinished to me, and it wasn't just the ending either. If a sequel or prequel is created to expand on the Nightbreed universe, I would view the 1990 film differently. >>> Well, I think the film actually worked marvelously well after undergoing such a hack job. Seriously. When you read up on just how much plot was cut, how many monsters removed, and how rearranged the final product was, it is a miracle that the film wasn't a disaster. My hats off to Barker and his team for managing to still deliver such a good film after being forced to cut it down so much.

And of course you would view the film differently after it was restored back to the chronological order it was supposed to be. Lori's story is much enhanced and the ending you haven't seen involving her makes a lot more sense and is far more fulfilling. I hear that the final act feels like an entirely different film altogether. It just goes to show what an impact the art of editing can have on a film.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] afdrucifer 12 years ago

too many inconsistencies in the star wars films for it to have been planned. incest man, incest.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 13 years ago

I've already provided you with evidence, above, that he conceived of multiple films. Also, what he describe sounds like a joke he made because it was rough going filming. In any case, even if one were to accept your interpretation of his comments, it does nothing to disprove his own comments that he planned multiple films right from the beginning, before the first film was made.

Take care,

Violet

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 13 years ago

I've already proven it to you beyond question. You're just being arrogant and unjustifiably argumentative.

Even if you're not man enough to admit you are wrong, I have provided you with incontrovertible proof that your assertions are false, and I consider this conversation over.

Violet

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´

[–] Cybernaut316 13 years ago

LOL. The only "proof" you've managed to provide is that you are an idiot! LOL.

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

Just let this debate drop. That person is rather ridiculous in their views, but this just isn't really the place for a boring Star Wars debate. I'm sorry I even bothered with it since I was talking to a brick wall mentality anyhow.

Back on topic, I have always wished that barker would return to the world of Nightbreed. In a book I own about the making of the film, Barker himself way back in 1990 stated that the next film would not take place the next day, but instead be many years later, with Reverend Ashbury gathering forces for a confrontation. It would be awesome if they could actually make a sequel to this new Cabal Cut of the film that is said to now be possibly getting a BluRay release. Since the original intention was to make the next chapter set many years later, it would be nice to see some of the original cast return all of these years later. I know it won't happen, but I can dream.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 13 years ago

Not only wrong and self-righteous, but rude and unable to leave a dead conversation be as well.

Well, this is what the anonymity of the internet has done for politeness and decorum.

I hope i don't come across you again.

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Cybernaut316 13 years ago

Lol. Well said.

And yes, it's a noble dream. I too have yearned for more Nightbreed. I'm surprised it has not yet been re-imagined. I would absolutely love to see more of the story played out.

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

I once said that they should make Nightbreed for HBO. I think it would work well as a series. They can get away with a lot now. Of course, the only drawback is the way HBO thinks that gratuitous sex is a must have requirement whether the story calls for it or not. Look no further than Game of Thrones. Anyhow, I do think that Nightbreed would be great material for a series on a channel where anything goes. I also wish that Clive Barker wouldn't have given up on the whole thing. he was going to write a trilogy of books for Cabal, yet after this film he just gave up and abandoned the Breed forever. He has spoken about where the story would go, but he has never done anything with it. What a shame.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] Cybernaut316 13 years ago

Totally agree. The story could actually be adapted quite well to a series. I wonder what it would take to get Clive back in the saddle with this project. Surely enough time has passed that he could get over any bitterness and strife experienced with the film, and move forward with a new production company and team.

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

I will never understand why Barker just quite working on Cabal all around. I truly do understand that his enthusiasm must have been squashed a bit by how his film was treated by Morgan Creek, but why did he have to punish his readers/fans by not even writing the followup novels? The book sets the stage, and it is obvious that he had ideas for where the story would go. He has spoken about them as far back as 1990 when the film was just about to be released. I get that the movie failed, but the novel was written several years prior to the film and it was a success. Why not follow up on it? Even if he did it now, it could be a hit and would make it more viable for a series or something to be made to adapt it.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 13 years ago

Good grief,

You people are so damned rude. I made a comment explaining how George Lucas planned Star Wars as a series, and a George Lucas hater challenged me to provide proof, saying that he knows more about George Lucas's thoughts than George Lucas himself does.

You have been so rude and discourteous to me, and I have been nothing but polite, thinking we might have an interesting, civil discussion, but instead you horrid people have insulted me without provocation, calling me stupid, a "village idiot", and making references to my vagina.

You don't know me, and I have done nothing to merit such rude, disturbing, feral behaviour. The fact that it appears there are more than one of you all ganging on to insult and degrade me from the anonymity of your internet connection is just baffling, as well as extremely disappointing.

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´

[–] Cybernaut316 13 years ago

YAWN...

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] darkko-1 13 years ago

whoa, talk about going off topic! :O thanks you two, reading this thread gave me massive LOLZ. :)

~ i'd like to encourage everyone to watch "Curse 2: The Bite." it's made of awesomeness.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] TalesfromTheCryptfan 10 years ago

Seen the Director's Cut? far better than TC.

Yes, but a TV show in the works and can expand the NB universe.

F *** the law, i want meat-Nightbreed