MovieChat Forums > Nightbreed (1990) Discussion > Is there anything you would change about...

Is there anything you would change about this film?

posted 10 years ago by TheSolarSailor
16 replies | jump to latest

If you could time travel and speak to Clive Barker about the movie, what would you suggest that he do differently? Let's keep this focused on things you see in the film that might get on your nerves a bit or things you feel could have been done better as opposed to warning him about all the backstabbing he was going to get from Morgan Creek and Fox.

One thing I would like would be to hear Baphomet explain to Cabal that he is now weaker, a bridge between Nightbreed and natural who can procreate (unlike other Nightbreed). This was in the novel and it sort of explains why Boone's rechristening as Cabal is unique and important to what is to come.

Visually, get rid of Boone's white tee shirt. It's bland looking and is especially bad looking when we see the bite mark that Peloquin leaves on his shoulder. Either keep him in the black tee shirt from the opening of the film, or have him in his leather jacket and no shirt like he appeared during the initiation scene (a little beefcake would be welcome). Also, give him a motorcycle rather than an old beat up truck.

Also on the visual realm, try to insert more monsters that would seem to have been the inspiration for the monsters of myth that we humans have always heard about and feared. Show us a monster that are a lot like a vampire, or a werewolf. Lude was a good design because he would be a race that most likely inspired imagery of the devil or demons. Give us a few traditional monsters and less freaks with baby faces growing on the side of their face or fingers growing from the chin.

For goodness sakes, please do not use the scene of Leroy Gomm saying, "There goes the neighborhood!"

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] bluhorn-673-810937 10 years ago

"There goes the neighborhood!"

That's the first thing that came to mind!

More carnage with the berserkers. I want to see Sons of the Free get their heads ripped off and necks shat into. Instead the berserkers go around close lining, uppercutting and walking away from explosions in slow motion.

That's funny you mention a werewolf. I saw a still recently of Babette staring at a dead werewolf. I don't remember if it's in the movie or not...

The optical effects on the flying manta ray, when it gets close to the camera, there's some kind of error where the image splits or something.

Narcisse's dubbed dialog about how to get to Midian always sounded canned and unnatural. I noticed in the Cabal cut the dialog was not looped and worked much better.

It's all minor stuff...I'm gonna quit my bitching and eagerly await the new cut!

[–] TheSolarSailor 10 years ago

Yes, it is minor stuff, but hey, every film has those little moments we wish we could change. I love the film anyhow, and eagerly await the new cut!

Yes, I do think we should see more of the Berzerkers. I wonder if more footage exists of them, or if there were problems with the suits that prevented us from getting more action? I'd like to have seen Peloquin kick a little ass before getting run over as well.

Yes, I have seen that picture of the dead werewolf. I actually think I read somewhere that it is a half-man, half-dog character. Big difference, right? Still, I do wish we could see a few more classic monsters mixed in with the Breed. The book describes some angelic creatures flying away into the night sky after tombs burst open. I'd like to have seen that visualized on screen as well.

Goodness, I think I may get rid of as much Leroy Gomm (snakes from the belly fat-man) as possible. I really hate that guy!

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] bluhorn-673-810937 10 years ago

I think Leroy's a great, imaginative character. Harboring lethal snakelike creatures in your giant gut? That's total Barker awesomeness. I think the problem lies with the lines written for him, and his voice is pretty annoying. Something tells me it was redubbed.

Yeah, more "stage 3" Peloquin please. That glimspe we see in the title scroll looks so menacing. As it is, we only see the head for a second when he's on top of the car.

[–] TheSolarSailor 10 years ago

That's funny you mention a werewolf. I saw a still recently of Babette staring at a dead werewolf. I don't remember if it's in the movie or not...

Yes, I have seen that still too. I have some old Fangoria articles from back in the day that I saved, and one shows the fully body cast of the "werewolf". He isn't really a werewolf so much as a half-man half-dog. Close enough, though. According to early drafts of the script, he was the painter of the mural on the wall of Midian. His name is Toledo and he is a seer. There was to be a scene of Boone exchanging looks with him at the mural room as he descended down to see Baphomet. I have also read comments that he is Babette's father, though I don't know that this is in any way confirmed and may just be fan-speculation. You see his head at the end of the opening credits when his eyes light up and Boone's dream starts up.

The optical effects on the flying manta ray, when it gets close to the camera, there's some kind of error where the image splits or something.

Yes, that effect looks atrocious. I wondered if it was supposed to be in 3D or something! I watched a video game of Nightbreed on Youtube by Amiga and it has several scenes of the shark thing attacking Boone. Hilarious, but it never separates. I can't imagine why that scene was approved fort a final shot. It doesn't work at all.

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Whose idea was it for the word LISP to have an S in it?

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] TheSolarSailor 10 years ago

Great idea, CG_Pan. I agree with you. Now don't get me wrong, as I do love the look and style of Midian overall, but you are right that it just isn't deep enough into the Earth. The car during the siege falls right through the ceiling! I suspect, though, that budget may have played a role here in how Midian was realized.

As for the book, Midian and the Breed don't get a great deal of description. Barker is purposely vague in this regard, leaving the door wide open for one's imagination to take over. You are right, though, that a more subterranean feel of cavernous depth would have been welcome. One sequence I like in the book is when Lori first ventures down the steps into Midian. Dark forces seize here and she feels suffocated and scared, as if these demons are literally going to take her into the darkness forever. She pleads that she won't tell anyone, then asks what more can she offer. The forces let go and she escapes back to the surface. It's a scene that would be a bit difficult to translate to the screen (like a lot of Lovecraft), but the way they did it in the film is a bit of a letdown. Just some monsters screaming at her and grabbing at her. I very much enjoyed the force of darkness itself which took hold of her, a shadowy protector of the realm ruled by Baphomet.

I love the movie, but I feel like a sense of the wondrous described in the book is missing in it. I'd like to have seen a tomb blow open during the siege as a winged angelic creature takes flight into the night sky as Ashberry watches. Oh well, budget restrictions!

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Whose idea was it for the word LISP to have an S in it?

[–] Kolobos51 10 years ago

Honestly, my biggest gripe is Narcisse. I just hate the actor that plays him, he's so over-the-top and annoying. The guy overacts throughout the whole thing and ruins a really cool looking character.

I also really, really wish the movie had made more effort to explain what the hell Baphomet is. It's really hard to figure out if he's a creature, or a possessed statue, or what and makes it difficult to tell what the other Breed are doing to him at the end. Are the dismembering him, can he put back together, is that statue literally his physical state, etc.?

PS
You guys should read the Nightbreed Chronicles. It explains a lot about the monsters including that several were actually inspired by classic monsters.

S.F.W.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] TheSolarSailor 10 years ago

Sigh. If you don't want to play along and offer up something you wish was different, fine, then simply don't respond with this bunch of pseudo-psychological BS. Be a stick in the mud elsewhere.

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Whose idea was it for the word LISP to have an S in it?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] TheHypnotron 10 years ago

I would have gotten rid of Baphomet. Perhaps if they want to have some nameless first-one nightbreed at the center of their little realm, so be it. But they shouldn't have given it a name and they certainly shouldn't have made it look like any god/devil that is familiar to most folks (i.e. don't make it look like a goat headed devil people associate with Satan)

Baphomet in the end becomes a giant distraction to the broader themes of "the persecution of the different" by the conformity police and that "the real monsters are out there in the natural world" whereas Midian is a place where people who are different are welcome and accepted and not judged for how well they fit in with mainstream society.

[–] robinson-w-walsh 10 years ago

For a tough guy who does a lot of posturing, in the end he sure was a pushover. He does a flying acrobatic flip through the air, lands on a truck, growls at the driver, gets run over, and then retreats back down below to hang out with Laurie. When I first saw the movie I thought he was going to tear into the rednecks Wolverine-style

Basically the Nightbreed as a whole needed more characterization. Speaking of Wolverine, Nightbreed/Cabal shares similarities with the X-Men because it asks the audience to empathize with the monsters and the outcasts. But it's hard to empathize with some flamboyant guy with Lovecraft tentacles in his stomach and his black devil buddy if you don't get to really know them aside from a few pieces of dialogue.

[–] MinnieStronieGoodsoup 8 years ago

I agree with getting rid of "There goes the neighbourhood". It was just too silly and out of place.

Was I the only one who hated the whole end of the film? I was really enjoying it until the story stopped happening and we were left with half an hour of guns, boobs, explosions and romance! It was so boring I was just waiting for it to end. Not that I could think of anything more interesting to put in instead!

****** So says Mr. Stewart. ******

[–] ravi02 8 years ago

I would fix a couple things starting with the very concept of the film:

- I get that the Nightbreed are meant to represent those who are misunderstood and opressed, but why don't we see many good Nightbreed creatures? There's only the woman with her child and the leader. The rest are trying to eat Boone and scare his girlfriend, so it becomes hard for us to totally be on the Nightbreed side.

- Why exactly does Boone want to be part of Nightbreed? It doesn't seem great. We don't even get to see Boone enjoying his new abilities like in a superhero film where they test their new super abilities. This is never really explored here.

[–] TheSolarSailor 8 years ago

Thanks for posting! I'd like to debate your points, if you don't mind.

- I get that the Nightbreed are meant to represent those who are misunderstood and opressed, but why don't we see many good Nightbreed creatures? There's only the woman with her child and the leader. The rest are trying to eat Boone and scare his girlfriend, so it becomes hard for us to totally be on the Nightbreed side.

I wouldn't really say that. The only Breed who tried to eat Boone was Peloquin, and it seems to be made clear that Peloquin is breaking the law of Midian and that his lust for meat overcomes his senses at times. Narcisse tells Boone early in the film, "know what they do to those who aren't worthy?", then proceeds to do the slit your throat gesture which pretty much states that they will kill you. At the time of Boone's visit to Midian, he is innocent. He is not a killer. He is just a man who doesn't belong there...at least, not yet. Peloquin doesn't care. Peloquin seems to be a Breed who gets away with a lot, most likely because he is powerful and Lylesburg knows that he is needed at Midian.

Boone and Narcisse are both new at Midian, and breaking the law within one day. Lylesburg is much harsher with them, because their actions threaten the very existence of their secret society. Narcisse isn't punished along with Boone in the film, but he is in the novel. Boone even tries to persuade Lylesurg not to punish Narcisse, but Lylesburg will have none of it. In the film, Boone is pretty flippant about the law when confronted. In my opinion, I think Lylesburg is trying to teach them to respect the law. I honestly think they would have been allowed to return after some time had passed.

Lori, being a human and obviously being put off by what she is seeing, is just being treated like the outsider she is during her trip to Midian. Rachel is more understanding and appreciative towards Lori because she saved Babette, but the others just play up the shock value to bother her because they know, at this point, that she is not accepting of what they are. At no point is Lori truly in danger from the Breed, except for the uncontrollable Berserkers, of course.

- Why exactly does Boone want to be part of Nightbreed? It doesn't seem great. We don't even get to see Boone enjoying his new abilities like in a superhero film where they test their new super abilities. This is never really explored here.

Well, for one this is NOT a superhero story. I don't get the impression that Boone wants to be a Breed. he dreams of it. He didn't ask for the dreams and has obviously had a lot of mental problems due to them. Decker has helped him to stop thinking it is real and to treat them as just dreams, nothing more. Boone tells Lori that he is actually beginning to like what he feels in the dreams, being a free spirit true to something he doesn't yet understand (sounds a lot like what gay people go through as they try to deal with their feelings which they are constantly taught is wrong). Boone is destined to be a Breed, and Decker's betrayal is what sets the ball into motion.

Even after his resurrection, Boone is uncertain and uncomfortable with what he has become. He doesn't even understand the full stretch of what has happened yet. Narcisse tells Lori, "just wait till he comes to sniff a little blood. That will bring out the beast in him!" Boone has transformed into his monster self to fight Decker, but he has not experienced the blood lust yet. The book clarifies this so much better than the film (even the Cabal Cut shows that it was better emphasized in the film originally), as Boone becomes disgusted with the fact that he has cannibal cravings at the Sweetgrass Inn. He is not only jailed, but in a pit of despair. He would rather see himself destroyed at this point.

It is Lori, who has come to terms with the fact that the man she loves in now a monster and finally understands what he is. Lori is witnessing the building hate of the humans, and realizes that the Breed, just like through history, are about to be slaughtered again when they didn't even do anything to warrant such a reaction. When Lori comes into the jail to rescue Boone, he wants none of it. She convinces him that she understands what he is and that she is not afraid of him. She still loves him no matter what. The sex scene solidifies this sentiment and causes Boone to realize that even though he has changed into something else, he still has a reason to exist. His role is now different from anything he has ever known before. He now has to fight for what he is and others like him. The movie doesn't quite capture that important element of the novel.

The Breed aren't necessarily good or evil, they just are. They live by instincts much like animals do, and we do not consider animals to be evil for their actions. Breed are not human, and humanity finds them disgusting and they judge them as something that should not exist and should be destroyed.

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