MovieChat Forums > Jacob's Ladder (1990) Discussion > Confused (SPOILERS)

Confused (SPOILERS)

posted 11 years ago by eolloe
11 replies | jump to latest

Ok. The final scene suggests that he died on an army field hospital table in Vietnam (or in Thailand, during the Vietnam era). Exactly what year this occurred wasn't clear -- could have been 1971, as suggested by the date subtitle displayed when the film first shifts to New York City, or, more likely, could have been years earlier, when he was still overseas in the military service (1968?).

So did he merely hallucinate the "memories" of the experiences with his family, such as Gabe's death, and with his girlfriend, as he lay dying on the table -- since he would end up dying before any of those events had had a chance to actually occur?

And in terms of anachronisms, if he did die in Vietname during the 1960s, he wouldn't have ever seen the World Trade Center's Twin Towers, shown in an early scene, since they weren't built until about 1970. And he couldn't have gone to a party where Lady Marmalade was playing.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] eolloe 11 years ago

So his having earned a master's and a PhD was also just a part of his dream as he lay dying, since he never left the war and made it back to live as a civilian in the States. Same with the relationship with the chiropracter -- he hallucinated all of those visits as well.

The whole story about the mind-control experiment is also part of his dying hallucination.

Which makes the part about his deceased son Gabe leading him to Heaven just another hallucination (since Gabe was, presumably, still alive back home in the States with Jake's wife and other kids as Jake lay dying -- at least if the scene in which Jake, in the war, was reading a letter sent to him by his very young son was from a real memory and not just hallucinated). If so, I wonder whether the filmmakers missed that incongruity.
It seemed that at the end of the film they intended for the Gabe who was leading Jake to Heaven to be the real Gabe, or rather the soul of the real Gabe, who had died. But Gabe couldn't have died yet at that point because we had been led to believe that Gabe died at a time that Jake was with him or had been an active part of his life; so Gabe could only have died if Jake had survived the war and made it back to civilian life in the States.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] eolloe 11 years ago

The scene where Jezzie turns into a demon was kept in the DVD version I saw. Jake, off from work sick, is obsessing over demonology, in his bathrobe poring over books with images of angels and demons, while she is getting ready to go to work. She is telling him to get out of the apartment and get some fresh air, but he is ignoring her. So she goes into the room to confront him, and for a brief instant, her face in a close-up has demonic eyes and teeth.

We do see his Master's degree diploma, at least, in a scene but I didn't see what the field was. I assumed it was in philosophy or the humanities because of the conversations he had with the chiropracter. But I guess we have no way of knowing for sure that he ever earned the degrees. Maybe when he went into the service it had been his plan to do so one day.

Your theory about him being the chemist is interesting.
But then we'd also have to explain why he lost the memories of that but retained memories of other things, like of his family, and invented memories of him NOT being a chemist.

It's certainly possible that Gabe (and even Eli, Jeb, and Jake's ex-wife) never existed at all except in his hopes and hallucination. (And, assuming he was a draftee, why would they have drafted a man with three young children -- or two if he was drafted before Gabe was born?) But my sense was that filmmakers wanted us to believe that they did exist and that one of the kids (I think it was Gabe) had written Jake a letter that he read while overseas that said the son missed him. Of course, even the letter could have been a hallucination.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] pullman1881 10 years ago

(And, assuming he was a draftee, why would they have drafted a man with three young children -- or two if he was drafted before Gabe was born?)

I always thought his life with his first wife and kids and Gabe's death were true - part of him exorcising his demons. He taught Gabe to ride a bike and perhaps blamed himself for his death. Parents often can't handle the death of a child - from what I've read - so I think they divorced and he went into the army as penance(?)

However, now you're giving me new ideas to think about. I thought maybe his education was in philosophy - that's why Louis tells him about the idea of letting go of your demons. Certainly, his children and wife (was she Sarah?) having all biblical names makes more sense with your explanation.

It's all ambiguous, so I guess we can make it anything we want it to be. I just watched is again after several years. I'll have to rewatch it with the filter of your thoughts.

[–] normkerr123 10 years ago

In the film, the dialog establishes that he had his PhD before enlisting in the Army, and that Gabe's death is what caused him, rashly, to enlist.

In the film, the chemist says he was working on the drugs in '68, but the opening scene showed that the big event was in '71, Mekong Delta.

So, the interesting twist about how this story is told is: there IS no way Jacob could have seen the World Trade Center, or the mid '70s cars, or music.

He tells his wife about his awful dream, "remember Jezebel from the post office? We met her at the Christmas party".

There are elements in the story to suggest that the whole thing is a dream that he had while he was dying ("man, if I live through this, I know Sarah is never going to understand why I enlisted and I didn't use my education to become an officer, and ended up like this, I'll probably end up on my own, or living in some seedy apartment with, I don't know, someone like that chick from the post office or something). But there are parts that imply strongly that he DID live, and 1975 was real (like, if he imagined this on an operating table in '71, where did the chemist come from?).

That second possibility then includes an interesting paradox. But, then, the MASH doctor did say that he put up a hell of a fight!

I love that about this story, it gives you ample evidence for both explanations, neither one allows the other, and both stand up well without requiring you to chose one or the other!

THAT's good story telling.

[–] essex9999 10 years ago

Interesting post, normkerr. I never considered that Singer might have lived, despite the impossibility of a man who died in 1971 dreaming about songs from 1975, etc. I figured the mid-70s details were misdirection to keep the audience from guessing what otherwise might have been a fairly obvious conclusion. IOW, they sacrificed accuracy for the sake of story-telling. It does seem odd, I admit, because Lyne certainly went out of his way to capture a mid-70s feel.

The chemist could be in a dying dream because we see that Singer recognized his killer as a fellow American; the drug experiment (which in this scenario might or might not be true) could be his mind's attempt to explain the senseless attack.

If Singer did live, and the 1975ish scenes were real, what was happening? Drug flashbacks? How would that explain the event in the field hospital, when the doctor declares him dead? And how could he see his dead child alive? And what does the final moment, ascending the light-filled stairway with his dead son, mean if he's not actually dead and finally accepting it?

[–] normkerr123 10 years ago

EXACTLY!

It is beautiful.

Well, to be totally prosaic about it, then it is all just misdirection by the director to throw us off the scent before we get to the end. But it is still good like that, just not as mysterious.

Question: what did the scar below Jezebel's right breast represent?
(it is clearly visible in the bedroom scene while she is giving him the little bag of photographs which included the one of Gabe).

Norm

[–] scatteredenergy 10 years ago

On another thread here someone pointed out the screenplay was written by someone who's a Buddhist and that the movie is loosely based on The Tibetan Book of the Dead. Regarding that scar....my theory about the scar is that Jezz was a reflection of Jacob himself...this is a Tibetan Buddhist thing (I am one). The time between death and ones reincarnation or rebirth is also a time one can attain total enlightenment and not need to be re-born. One thing one can do, is in that in between state (the bardos) is to see everything, no matter how scary, as reflections of yourself...this leads to liberation. A deleted scene at the very end shows Jezz morphing into Jacob Jacob was stabbed with the bayonet and killed. It could be why she has the scar and also where.Hope it helps.

[–] DarrenDirt 9 years ago

I think it was far less ambiguous/confusing than other films of similar genre.

The entire movie in NYC was not real, he never made it out of Vietnam.

The majority of the film -- whether with Sarah or with Jezzie -- was a depiction of his mind/soul fighting departure from this earthly existence as he died, as that Vietnam doctor said.

He was so deep in denial that he flipped between returning to his simple life before Vietnam, even before Gabe was killed, the happy life with his wife and all 3 boys ... to a fantasy life where he made it back from Vietnam but the PTSD etc. would mean he was impossible to live with so he would be a mess and end up finding solace with the cute girl at his job, stereotypical situation kinda.

But deep inside he knew it was all fantasy, so he also flipped around between a building mystery/conspiracy and a literal HELL that was full of dark visual imagery (and perfect editing/cuts!) that kinda woke him out of the denial fantasy world knowing this was all "not quite right". Once he started being aware that his life was anything but normal, that's when Louis started hinting at the truth, and Jacob could finally start identifying the things he was holding onto that were making his reality HELL and then he could let go and move on.

I thought it was an excellent, engaging story, combined with some very effective horror elements in the way it was shot and edited.

Cheesy ending with the "stairway" though. But the late 1980s and early 1990s were full of that kind of emotional manipulation (along with big hair, synthesize soundtracks etc.)

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Chipping away at a mountain of pop culture trivia,
Darren Dirt.