Kicking Bird speaking fluent English near the end

Uh, yeah....you need to watch the movie again and pay a bit more attention.

I've watched the movie many times and I do pay attention every time.

Even at their first meeting at Dunbar's fort, when Dunbar imitates a buffalo, Kicking Bird says 'tatonka' and Dunbar replies 'buffalo'. Kicking Bird says 'buff' and turns to Wind in His Hair as if to acknowledge the communication.

Saying one partial word by imitating Dunbar does not mean Kicking Bird has learned the language. He never says any other English word except the converstaion at the end. That one word does not mean that he has learned the language.

Now perhaps this requires a leap-of-faith, that over the several months Dunbar lived with the Sioux, that both he and Kicking Bird would continue to learn each other's language (without additional film showing their mutual work ....and I'm sure if they had spent more film-time doing this, many would have complained about the redundancy!).

Now perhaps this requires a leap-of-faith, that over the several months Dunbar lived with the Sioux, that both he and Kicking Bird would continue to learn each other's language (without additional film showing their mutual work ....and I'm sure if they had spent more film-time doing this, many would have complained about the redundancy!).

That is an assumption oon your part. Yes, maybe that could be the case, but it would have helped to show Kicking Bird trying to speak a few more Enlgish words. It wouldn't be redundant if only a few seconds of this were shown. No one is asking for one hour of Dunbar giving Kicking Bird english lessons.

Clearly, Dunbar was not the only one wishing to learn the other's language. Wind in his Hair learned the words 'good trade'. And Kicking Bird speaking some english months later is not a goof-up to me.

Again, just learning one or two words does not mean that the person has learned the language or is interested in learning it. People often say "Merci, Bonjour, Konichiwa, Hola, Gracias etc" just because they know what these common words mean. Does not mean they can speak fluent French, Spanish, Japanese or even want to learn to speak those languages.

The implication that only Dunbar is interested in learning the Sioux language ('normal' as you said) and Kicking Bird is not, is ridiculous. Why would that be normal? Did Kicking Bird strike you as an incapable or disinterested individual? Or does the fact that he is Sioux make him incapable?

Why is it ridiculous? Don't go out making up things I never said. I never said Kicking Bird was incapable. You have a very active imagination and you bringing hatred into your discussion when it was never there.

I am basing my opinions on what I have seen in the movie. Dunbar himself wanted to learn the Sioux language. He wanted to better communicate with the Sioux. Kicking Bird was never shown to be interested in learning the English language. If he was, he could have learned it from Stands with a Fist even before Dunbar came into their lives. He could have learned it after. Apart from that one word "Buffalo", he never utters another English word. And you want me to believe that he was learning English all this time?

He was only shown once with Stands with a Fist as interpreter, and this was early in their relationship.

Wrong!! He also had Stand with a Fist interpret for him when he and the Sioux were going to war with the Pawnee and he asked Dunabr to watch over his family. Looks like you are the one who needs the watch the movie again.

In all of their interactions and in tribal councils, Kicking Bird is shown to be both intelligent and inquisitive (as Dunbar notes in his voice-over). They were intellectual equals and became friends as shown in the final scene of the film. And it was not "pointless".....clearly you missed a major point of this film.

I am not questioning their intelligence, inquisitiveness or friendship. Sure Kicking Bird could have learned English jsut as well as Dunbar learned the Sioux language. My beef is that it would have made more sense if it was shown that he was learning the language during the course of the film. As I said, it did not require long scenes, just a few scenes here and there where Kicking Bird is shown identifyng an object to Dunbar and saying it's English name. That would have made sense.

As you said, if that seems too reduntant, then there was realy no point in having that last conversation in English. It could have been in Sioux as well.

Throughout much of the movie, we see Dunbar trying hard to learn the Sioux language and even communicating with many of the Sioux members. Kicking Bird is rarely shown trying to communicate with Dunbar in english. Even when the two are having the conversation very late in the movie about how many white men are coming, they are speaking in Sioux and when Dunbar says, "like the stars", Kicking Bird does not understand until Dunbar says it in Sioux language.

And yet according to you, by that time Kicking Bird had pretty much learned a good deal of English???? Now THAT is ridiculous.

For a guy who only says one English word in the movie, "Buffalo", and then without ever showing to be learning any new words or phrases in English, is able to say:
"You finish your pipe?"
"How does it smoke?"
"We come far you and me"

Seems WAY too far-fetched. Do you know how much knowledge of the English language would be required by someone to be able to construct sentences like the ones above? You speak English so you think it is pretty easy to say such lines. Try talking to someone who is learning English for the first time. They will speak very broken English, even after many days of learning.

Let's assume that Dunbar was shown only saying "Tatanka" in the beginning, and then never shown to speak any Sioux word, talking in Sioux or even learning Sioux from anybody. Now if he spoke in prety much perfect Sioux language during the last converstaion, would you buy it? Maybe you would since you like to take leaps of faith, but I certainly wouldn't.

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On this thread's discussion I also recall when Kicking Bird goes to Stands with Fist and asks her to translate, he mentions saying that they are having too much difficulty understanding Dunbar and having Dunbar understand them. This clearly implies that Kicking Bird has been making the effort, but thinks they need to talk to Dunbar sooner than later. Time is a pressure, since Kicking Bird also references how other Indians are seeing the white man enter their areas, as Kicking Bird and Stands with Fist were speaking as it were.

While in theory Kicking Bird could have seen Stands with Fist's serving as an interpreter a way htat he would not have to learn English, and he didn't want to do that, anyway, I don't see it that way at all. He shows frustration throughout at not knowing enough of what he might learn from Dunbar.

Also, good point about the how many and the stars conversation.

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