When they're arming Bomb 1, Cassidy says, "You have nuclear consent," and flips the consent switch...BUT...nuclear weapons release is governed by the "Two-man rule",(although in this case, since the co-pilot was a woman, maybe it should be "two-person rule"...so, Moreau should have flipped a similar switch on her side of the cockpit.
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
I may be wrong, but I don't think that they could actually arm and use their bombs unless they had received their strike orders at their positive control point. I also believe that they need certain codes that come with their orders that they must input into a computer. Otherwise, they cannot arm the bombs.
Again, I could be wrong but am pretty sure I heard that from a former B-52 crewman I once met while in the Army.
No, I believe you're right...they do need weapon unlock codes...although in a situation like this (SAC HQ destroyed, Fairchild gone, etc.), the President (or his successor) should be able to send the codes through a portable sender (presumably the black bag that Harpoon was carrying, since he retrieved the authenticator card from there). Another MAJOR procedural goof. (I've been researching military history most of my life, that's how I understand about the "two-man rule.") Although in this case (since Moreaux was a woman), shouldn't it be the "two-**PERSON**rule??) I know, I know, I'm thinking too much!!! :)
Oh, and timmaninaz--thank you for your service. :)
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
That’s what I thought! It’s a goof anyway. At that point in the movie, the Secretary of the Interior had taken over as president but had not yet issued any orders to the bombers. That comes after they had taken care of the MIG 25s and were orbiting and awaiting orders. Therefore, they would not have received their strike orders as of yet.
During the Cold War, the B-52’s were armed at all times in the event of an attack and alert drills were fairly common back in those days. You even hear the crew in the movie grumbling about it as they get on board. The code protection on the bombs was a failsafe device so the bombs can only be used in the event of war. This way they could not be dropped by accident or by some renegade crew or pilot.
In any event, it seems to me that one would need a rank much higher than major to authorize the use of nuclear weapons! Giving “nuclear consent” was just a convenient way to keep the movie script going.
Even if such a thing were possible, I doubt the Air Force would have appreciated Cassidy’s decision to use one of his bombs to dispose of three Soviet fighters by dropping it on what appeared to be either Canada or Alaska. Add that to his later charge of desertion and you would have had the court martial of the century!
You’re welcome. I served with the U.S. Army as a cavalry scout with the 11th Cavalry Regiment in West Germany during the Cold War and then with the First Squadron, 7th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division during Desert Storm.
I knew about the B-52's being armed at all times...some were even on airborne alert in the 1950's and 1960's. Yeah, there's that banter between Cassidy and Moreaux (sp?)
C: Well, we'll send Moreaux to dry him off as soon as the drill's over!
M: Look, I know you think it's real every time the siren goes off, but let's just get this OVER, and get O'Toole outta here!
C: Well, you better think it's real, Angel. It's simpler that way!!
And, "Hooks" gets the SATCOM message: "Orbit, await orders." Interesting that they called them "Positive control points" in this movie--I always heard/read about them as "Fail-safe points." But yeah, at that point, POTUS hadn't issued any orders to the bombers...that came later when he decided to order "2-1 Zebra." (I still would have liked to know what "HenHouse" was!!) :)
Agreed about the authorization of nuclear release...that would have to come from at LEAST SECDEF, I would think, if not the President himself. And yeah, between the unauthorized nuclear weapons release, and the desertion charge, and if he wasn't executed by firing squad, Cassidy (and Moreaux) would spend the rest of their lives breaking big rocks into little rocks in Leavenworth. (Assuming it still existed). :) I mean, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Gen. Curtis LeMay ordered SAC to DEFCON 2 unilaterally, but I don't think HE even granted the bombers nuclear weapons release authorization. (Like JFK said in the movie, "Thirteen Days",
"I am the President of the United States, and I say when WE GO TO WAR!!"
Awesome about your service to this great nation--I can't serve, myself...a laundry list of medical issues, both physical, and mental. Which is why I took to learning so much about the military, especially the U.S. Air Force. (Which is where I wanted to go).
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
During the Cold War, alerts were common for B-52 crews and necessary anyway. They would need to get up in the air in a certain amount of time before any missile strike on their bases. If memory serves, it would take a Soviet launched missile less than 30 minutes if launched from their Pacific coastline against the west coast of the U.S. Therefore, scramble drills were necessary and done quite often.
The downside to that is having crews that constantly get alerts that always turn out to be drills. Eventually, they would become complacent and start thinking every time the siren went off that it was a drill. The movie does a good job showing this as Cassidy’s crew clearly does not believe it’s for real except for him and that’s because he was in command.
While in Germany with the 11th Cavalry, we had numerous alerts but our situation was far different then B-52 crews back in those days. Warsaw Pact forces were very close to our position when we were in the field doing border patrol. That was our primary mission and we patrolled the Fulda Gap in southern Germany as that was the most likely route for an armored strike by Warsaw Pact forces in the event of war.
As a result, we took our alerts seriously (as anyone should!) but with enemy forces so close, we never knew what was going on when they did happen. Because of our location, very few alerts were drills and were in response to reported enemy movements in a very sensitive area. I always thought they were for real. It was simpler that way as Cassidy would have said.
As for Cassidy and Moreau, I sure as Hell would not want to be in their shoes once the U.S. military caught up with them. Sooner or later, their B-52 was going to run out of fuel and they would have to ditch if unable to land somewhere. Assuming they survived, they would be facing execution anyway once brought into custody. They were looking for them anyway.
Never mind the fact that the bombers were later recalled and hostilities ceased, they deserted and disobeyed orders. Hmm. I think they told us in ROTC on the first day that these were two very bad things to do!
I appreciate your support of my military service. I served a total of 12 years including reserve time while attending college and then eight years of active duty. I attained the rank of captain.
Not everyone can serve but you have done the next best thing by supporting your military. A lot of guys want to go Air Force and fly. Heck, there are far more volunteers for that then there are available slots!
I wanted to fly helicopters when I came out of ROTC and was going to put that down as my number one request for MOS assignment. My ROTC commander talked me out of that after pointing out that I would be up against West Point gradates and ROTC cadets from colleges that offered aviation degrees. I agreed and put down cavalry as my top choice and that’s what they gave me.
Getting back to the film, I do wonder what happened in Europe during the events of this move having served in that theatre of operations. I can only assume that some cities were hit (Berlin, London, Warsaw, Frankfurt and Brussels come to mind). That would make sense the U.S. and U.S.S.R. had a lot of troops there not to mention their own allies. Perhaps the book talks about this.
I think that was the mindset of the military as a whole--think of every alert as the real thing. That way, if the real thing ever DID happen, the emotions would be easier to control. (Desensitization, or whatever you want to call it.)
Yeah, desertion and disobeying direct orders were VERY bad things to do--and definitely would have resulted in Moreau and Cassidy being executed. (Look at Red Fox 1 and Red Fox 2...the two F/A-18s that went up after Cassidy & Moreau...they said they "had orders to escort you to a water landing and rescue, or SHOOT YOU DOWN." And they chose to shoot first, before their carrier got torpedoed.
And you're right...Cassidy's crew DID all believe it was a drill...especially O'Toole...he didn't even strap in properly!! (Dumb decision, wouldn't you agree?? I mean, when the nuke went off behind them, his decision ended up killing him). And, of course, Tyler--that poor guy went right around the bend as soon as he realized that Annie & Timmy were most likely dead.
I had a pen pal who went through the U.S. Naval Academy--tried to sell me on the Navy as opposed to the Air Force for a service. He told me, "in the Air Force, if you don't fly, you'll probably end up in front of a console that controls missiles. Now, in the *NAVY,* on the other hand..." (Don't remember the exact quote, or how many possible jobs in the Navy he listed, but I do remember there were a lot of them!) Of course, I knew that since HE was in the Navy, he was making the Navy out to be better than any other service. (Inter-service rivalries and all that). :)
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
During my time, the Army had a habit of putting us on alert or having drills in the wee hours of the morning. That was really the case when I was posted stateside. In fact, I would get more worried if we had an alert in the middle of the afternoon!
West Germany was different. When on patrol, my platoon would spot Warsaw Pact forces more often than not. Usually, they were small units probably doing what we were doing. They would also have their own scouts mirror our movements and watch us while we watched them Occasionally, tank units were spotted.
It was a game that both sides played: each side moved their troops around to see how the other side responded and how quick they were to react. Over time, I got use to that but in the event of an alert that occurred when I was not on patrol, I always thought that something had gone wrong near the border.
As an officer, I always stressed to my troops that any alert could be the real thing. Cassidy was doing the same thing in the film. In our situation in Germany, being so close to the enemy, it was wise to take all alerts seriously.
I too felt bad for Tyler in the movie. I wasn’t married and didn’t have any children until I left the military but God only knows how that must feel. O’Toole did do a dumb thing. However, he probably just got nervous and wasn’t paying attention to details. Being under fire changes everything!
Inter-service rivalries are funny things. I find those more prevalent among younger guys and I was like that as well. However, after calling in air strikes and seeing the Air Force and Navy respond with such devastating efficiency during Desert Storm, I quickly dropped my attitude towards the other branches. If anything, I wish I knew who the pilots were so I could send them a bottle of whatever it is they drank!
I would imagine any alert that was called in a non-traditional time would have made you nervous--I know it would have me!! :)
I can imagine, being that close to the border, tension was always there. And yeah, Cassidy did the same thing in the movie--and it makes perfect sense when you think about it, especially during the 1980's. I remember having nightmares for days after I watched By Dawn's Early Light, because even with all the procedural and technical errors, the plot seemed so real.
I can't imagine how Tyler must have felt when Radner said, "Fairchild is gone, sir. The base is totally destroyed!" In that respect, denial made perfect sense...like Moreau said, "Tyler doesn't have much to go home to, now."
I had the impresion that O'Toole didn't strap in because he thought it was a drill--when Hooks said to him, "Did you forget your towel, Lieutenant?" he responded, "These *beep* drills!!" So maybe he didn't strap in because he figured they'd be back on the ground soon. And, Cassidy said, "Well, I'll send Moreau to dry him off as soon as the drill's over!" But, as soon as Moreau read the EWO orders, he should've gone back to his seat and strapped himself in, tight.
I saw a YouTube video of a SEAL Team drill cadence, and there was a comment that said something to the effect of "I can't believe that the services insult each other like that!!" (Some of the lines were, as you can well imagine, I'm sure, pretty profane). I made a point of commenting back that--
First of all, it was a cadence used during PT, and as such, the language was geared to motivate the men.
Secondly, all the services do that amongst themselves...I would imagine that Marine Force Recon does it to the SEALS, the SEALs do it to the Green Berets, etc., etc.
I would've wanted to send those pilots a bottle (or two) of whatever they were drinking, too!! :)
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
My first posting as a 2LT was the 11th Cavalry. The first few alerts scared the Hell out of me and I know that several men in my platoon were laughing at me behind my back. I got use to them as I mentioned by still took them seriously. However, I could see how easy it would be to believe that nothing is ever going to happen when nothing ever does.
My first experiences when spotting Warsaw Pact troops were tense moments for me but then I got use to that as well. Sometimes they were close and sometimes it took binoculars to get a good look at them. It varied. Sometimes they were East German and other times Soviet units. It got to the point where we recognized some of them and gave them nicknames. I’m sure that they did the same. God only knows what my nickname would have been.
Anyway, agree on O’Toole. Bad move on his part. As a First Sergeant said to us in Infantry School when I was a private: “Pay attention, stay awake, stay alert, stay alive. It’s as simple as that.”
I think the move also shows that we really don’t know how people will react in certain situations until they are faced directly. The B-52 crew in the film pretty much falls apart. The knowledge that their families are gone and they have nothing to go home to assuming they can even get back was too much for some of them to bare.
Tyler reacted with anger after the initial shock had passed and wanted to take on the whole Soviet military by himself! Radnor was an emotional mess who had pretty much tuned out. Cassidy and Moreau wanted no part of the war.
Yes, all the branches of the service insult each other to some degree. The smart people also realize that at the end of the day, we’re all fighting for the same thing anyway. I always found Marines to be the worst for that.
Many years ago, I was in New York City the same time as fleet week was going on. Three young marines passed me without saluting and were grinning at me as we passed each other. Boy, did I ever give them a good chewing out! Hey, I was a captain and I do not have to take such garbage from PFC’s!
I can imagine how scary the first few alerts would have been frightening. They would scare the crap out of me. :) And, I bet the first time you saw enemy troops, that it would be unnerving...would be interesting, though, to know what nicknames they had for your guys!! :)
Yeah, O'Toole was extremely careless...and it ended up biting him in the rear end. I like what that First Sergeant said to you. That makes a lot of sense.
You're right about not knowing how people will react in certain situations until they face them directly...and the movie does do a good job of illustrating that. Of course, Moreau and Cassidy don't have families, per se, except each other. But, that's why Hooks said, "Any prayers?" after Cassidy said, "Any questions? Any jokes?"
H mm...Marines being the worst at insulting other service members...why doesn't that surprise me?? :)
The first time I took the ASVAB, I remember handing my papers (that's how long ago it was...I actually did a paper test) to a very big, very black Marine. (Not being racist, just making a statement of fact). He took the papers and said, "Good luck, son." And I, being totally ignorant of military rank insignia, said, "Thank you, sir." BIG MISTAKE. He promptly looked down and said, "Son, I work for a livin', thank you very much! Don't insult me like that!!" I mumbled, "Sorry," and walked out of there feeling about 2 inches tall. (But, I did resolve to learn at least the officer rank insignia, so that I wouldn't make that kind of mistake again). Enlisted always confuses me, though, with regards to rank insignia.
That's funny what happened to you during Fleet Week!! I don't blame you for chewin' those guys out, either!! :)
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
Back in West Germany, all of the new guys went through the same thing. It was worse for the enlisted men and I knew the vets would play pranks on them as well. I always wondered what the East Germans and Soviets were thinking when they were looking at us. After all, we had volunteered for that and they were conscripted.
I was all gun ho as well and especially early on. However, my first experience in combat happened in Desert Storm and it was far different then I thought it would be. It’s frightening and confusing when someone is shooting at you and trying to kill you. Reactions vary by person.
We see the same thing in the movie and especially with the B-52 crew. However, most of the leaders and generals, with two notable exceptions on the American side, didn’t want war at all and were hoping to stop it with the fewest amount of casualties possible.
Even at the end of the movie when hostilities cease, the damage had been done.
Millions of people were dead with more to come from radiation sickness and starvation so only a partial recovery would have been possible. The film “The Day After” and especially “Threads” show recovery efforts but those were in situations where it was all out nuclear war.
What the First Sergeant said to us that night stuck with me for the rest of my time in the military and even today. Some idiot fell asleep in his foxhole when he was supposed to be on guard and the instructors attacked us to test us. Of course, they succeeded as no one spotted them. I was awake but in a different hole guarding my sector when all Hell broke loose!
The First Sergeant got us all out of our holes while dragging the sleeping soldier around by his shirt collar. We got a nasty lecture and said that if had been the real thing, we would all be dead because he couldn’t stay awake. We never saw that guy again! This happened during infantry school when I was 18.
My oldest son has enlisted and reports for basic training in July. I was amazed how much the ASVAB has changed since I took it in 1985. Looks like the SAT now by comparison. It was rather easy when I took it. At least I called the guy sergeant when done!
As for those Marines, yeah, real stupid move on their part! They were all PFC’s so they were probably on their first posting and not too far removed from boot camp. I gave them a good chewing out and reminded them that rank structures for U.S. Army officers were the same as in the Marines.
They were all scared and I was so angered by their lack of respect for an officer (I was a captain at the time) that I got their i.d’s and noted their names and SSN Numbers with a promise that they would hear further about that as I intended to report them. They were very apologetic and I then told them to get lost. I never did follow-up with my threat but the knowledge that they had to think about it and worry was enough for me.
Fellow officers got a really good laugh out that incident. Talk about being arrogant and stupid! I mean I clearly have captain’s bars on my garrison cap and four rows of ribbons with the top ones clearly showing that I had served in combat. Duh!
Yeah, volunteers do tend to have a different point of view about combat than people who were conscripted, like those in the East German and Soviet armies. (And, to a lesser extent, U.S. draftees from Vietnam).
I've talked to several combat vets, and they all share similar stories to yours--gung ho as all get out in the beginning, but after they experienced combat, it became a whole different story.
And, you're right about the differing reactions in the movie--the Sec of the Interior and Col. Fargo were the two most hawkish people in the room, no question about it. (Although Cassidy, at least after they received 2-1 Zebra, seemed to be a little more gung-ho about it. "We don't have to drop a million tons of TNT on a bunch of civilians! Isn't that better, for God's sake??"
Oh, I can imagine the instructors were not pleased!! (That motto, "Train like you fight, and fight like you train" comes to mind).
Some parts of the ASVAB were fairly easy for me...others, not so much. Yeah, I should've seen that the guy I gave my papers to was enlisted, but like I said, I didn't know any better!! (Now, however, it's a different story).
And I can imagine those Marines were not too thrilled when they realized what they'd done. I know I'd be kissing proverbial ass if I ever made a goof like that. Good that they got the message without your having to carry out your threat, though.
It sounds like it made for some good conversation with your fellow officers, too. The Captain's bars alone should have been a clue...and the ribbons showing your service in combat should have served as an extra notice. Like you said, Duh!! :)
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
The combat reliability of conscripted Soviet and East German troops was questioned a lot back during the Cold War. My unit wondered the same thing. We did know that the Warsaw Pact units facing us were some of the best that they had so I am sure they would have carried out their orders just fine. Secondary units may have been a different story.
Iraqi draftees that I encountered in Desert Storm were mostly all too happy to surrender to us although the first units of them we encountered did resist us but eventually gave up. Republican Guard units were different and were fanatical fighters but didn’t last long against our overwhelming fire power and air support.
Condor and Fargo were nuts. People like Fargo scared me when I was in the military. I ran into a few officers like him in my time and they could care less about casualties. Thank God Alice did the right thing once the real president was able to reach him.
Instructors not pleased? Far from it! We paid for that one guy’s mistake big time. We were reservists and national guardsmen and they put us in one unit for that reason. The instructors didn’t like that we were reservists and that incident made it even worse! Only 43 out of 60 guys who started out successfully completed infantry school and graduated. I was one of them.
I am not all that surprised by the enlisted man you dealt with during the ASVAB exam. Many people don’t like doing recruiting. It’s not an easy job and there is a lot of pressure on you to sign people up. That may explain his attitude.
As for those Marines, they got a lesson that I am sure that they will never forget. I was told later that supposedly saluting was not required while in NYC during Fleet Week but I have never heard of such a thing! If true, fine but I was not Navy or Marines so the rule wouldn’t apply anyway!
Well, like I said, conscripted soldiers definitely have different attitudes than volunteers (like you). And, I remember seeing Iraqis surrendering en masse during Desert Storm.
You're right about Condor and Fargo--they were both goofy...and I would be scared to think that people like Fargo were in the military. And I was relieved that Alice accepted the President even without the authenticator codes. Maybe the President asking Alice if he wanted to quiz him about the Brooklyn Dodgers or Betty Grable's measurements had something to do with that?? :)
Well, at least you were one of the guys who graduated. :) I take it the instructors were full-time soldiers, then? (Would make sense).
Yeah, I've heard about recruiting not being a popular job, and the pressure recruiters are under to sign people up. I also wonder if there wasn't some of the 'enlisted-officer rivalry' (enlisted guys thinking they're better than officers because they 'work for a living,' or something like that) going on there.
I bet those Marines got a lesson they will never forget!! I'm surprised that saluting was not required during Fleet Week...that sounds awfully strange to me. Maybe that's because I never served, I dunno. :)
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
Many of the Iraqi draftees we captured were ill-equipped as well as poorly fed so many were hungry and thirsty. Most of them were only too glad it was over. In one incident, an entire company of Iraqis surrendered to us without firing a shot.
Alice took a risk but since he was so against Fargo in the first place, figured it was the right move. It could have been the president’s statements as you suggested. Obviously, he made the right move. Besides, the Soviets were pretty rattled and sending false communications to sound like the president was going to be hard to pull off anyway.
Yes, our instructors were full-time soldiers. The senior ones were Vietnam veterans. I did basic training in between my junior and senior years of high school as I was 17. After that, I went back to high school. The following summer, I went back to Benning for infantry school. Me and a bunch of other guys in the same situation were thrown into the same unit.
Usually, one would to infantry school straight from basic. We had not and since we had only served one weekend a month since the previous fall, we were pretty rusty so they were pretty hard on us especially early on when that incident happened. Actually, I reported for infantry school in June and had last fired an M-16 in December!
Enlisted-officer rivalries have been going on for centuries. I was enlisted prior to getting commissioned so a lot the NCO’s had a lot of respect for me because of that.
I was always glad I never had to do any recruiting. It’s even worse now since the military’s standards are far higher than they were when I signed up. The recruiters are not only rated by how many people they put in but also as to how those recruits perform. They get points for people that get through initial training but lose them for people who don’t.
I do wonder if those Marines remember that incident on 5th and 51st?
Yeah, I've heard (and read) about the draftees being poorly equipped and poorly fed. I think I saw the incident where an entire Iraqi company surrendered.
Yeah, I got the impression Alice (isn't that a weird last name for a man?) and Fargo didn't like each other. Funny, I'm watching "By Dawn's Early Light" right now, and Fargo's just giving "Condor" the lecture about the Russians being able to send false communications.
I fired an M-16 during a rappelling course I took at college (Northwest Missouri State University)--we were firing .22 ammo, but it was still pretty cool. The rappelling was kinda hard--I'm afraid of heights! I still have a picture somwehwere of me hanging from the rappelling rig on the side of one of the buildings on campus.
Good that your NCO's had respect for you...that makes it easier, I would imagine.
I know I wouldn't want to be a recruiter...that sounds like one of the hardest jobs in the military, no question about it. :)
Would be interesting to know if those Marines remember that incident!! :)
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
There were plenty of incidents in Desert Storm when entire units surrendered without firing a shot. That was really the case towards the end when it was pointless to resist. In the situation we were in, we found their officers waiting for us with a white flag. Through an interpreter that was assigned to us, they told us that they would surrender if we guaranteed the safety of their troops and if we would care for the wounded. We agreed. They had a lot of wounded due to airstrikes.
Fargo certainly had a reputation didn’t he? Alice seemed to know him quite well. Officers like Fargo always frightened me. He certainly took advantage of Condor who knew nothing of military tactics. If you ask me, Harpoon gave in way too easily and should have stuck around instead of basically handing his duties over to a mad man.
I loved rappelling and that’s one of the first things that they do with cadets in ROTC. I also did it in basic training and in infantry school but never actually did outside of training. It just never came up in the desert…
As for those Marines, they were typical PFC’s. Many of them come out of their initial training thinking that they are high and mighty. They did a stupid thing and I guess the figured that I wouldn’t do what I did. I know Marines tend to look down on the Army and that probably was the case here.
I had them at attention when I basically read them the riot act. Tourists walking around stopped to watch the free show. I told them to get lost after getting their names and they basically ran off in a panic.
Now that I think about it, I don’t think there as a no salute rule that weekend. Later that same evening, a Marine Gunnery Sergeant saluted me and gave me a “good evening sir” along with it. Then again, I would expect nothing less from a Gunny!
I've heard/seen several incidents where units surrendered without firing a shot...they were some of my favorite images during the war. I heard that some Iraqis were waving white T-shirts, underwear, anything white in some instances to surrender.
Yeah, Fargo seemed to have a rep...and it wasn't a very good one! When Condor said, "The Russians have too many missiles, and the Colonel says they're out of control!" Alice's reaction, "Fargo??" indicated that he'd dealt with Fargo before, and wasn't very impressed with the man. And you're right about Harpoon...he should've been a little more assertive, and not just handed his duties over to Fargo. (The phrase, "Sound off like you've GOT A PAIR!!" comes to mind.) :)
I learned to love rappelling once I got over the initial fear...but I'd be just as anxious if I had to do it again, 'cause it's been so long!!
I've known a few Marines, and the ones coming out of Basic do seem to think that their *beep* don't stink, to coin a phrase, and that they do tend to look down on the Army. (But then again, don't they look down on all the services??) :)
I would've stopped to watch that!! And been laughing my ass off the whole time!! I can imagine they panicked.
Yeah, I would expect nothing less from a Gunny Sergeant, either. :)
"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"
We captured many Iraqi soldiers whose officers and senior NCO’s had long since run off to avoid being captured themselves. Most were not in a good state nut relieved that they were alive and would hopefully return to their homes at some point.
Republican Guard units were far better equipped, armed and led. We encountered some of these units but they didn’t last long with our domination of the air. We took a few of them prisoner and their attitude was far different then the regular Iraqis we captured. They were arrogant, angry and not very cooperative with us. They had no choice but surrender and were not happy about it either.
How dare Fargo wear the patch of my beloved former unit (1st Cavalry Division) on his right shoulder! That would indicate his combat service. Given his rank, I would imagine he was in Vietnam with them.
I do love Harpoon’s face at the end when he realizes that the plane is being turned and Alice was going to catch them. You wonder if the Secret Service agent posted in the cockpit even bothered to notice what was going on. No one else apparently did as they were busy sending out orders.
I keep forgetting to mention that my father was a U.S. Marine for 25 years and attained the rank of colonel. So, yeah, I know what Marines can be like since I spend most of my childhood on posts including Parris Island where he was a regimental commander late in his career. I told my father about the incident in New York and he agreed that I did the right thing. His comment was good thing that they didn’t do that to him!
I hope you're not serious that you think James Earl Jones played a person whose real name was Alice?
Alice was his position. Alice through the Looking Glass.
Geddit?
SpiltPersonality
During my time, the Army had a habit of putting us on alert or having drills in the wee hours of the morning. That was really the case when I was posted stateside. In fact, I would get more worried if we had an alert in the middle of the afternoon!
West Germany was different. When on patrol, my platoon would spot Warsaw Pact forces more often than not. Usually, they were small units probably doing what we were doing. They would also have their own scouts mirror our movements and watch us while we watched them Occasionally, tank units were spotted.
It was a game that both sides played: each side moved their troops around to see how the other side responded and how quick they were to react. Over time, I got use to that but in the event of an alert that occurred when I was not on patrol, I always thought that something had gone wrong near the border.
As an officer, I always stressed to my troops that any alert could be the real thing. Cassidy was doing the same thing in the film. In our situation in Germany, being so close to the enemy, it was wise to take all alerts seriously.
I too felt bad for Tyler in the movie. I wasn’t married and didn’t have any children until I left the military but God only knows how that must feel. O’Toole did do a dumb thing. However, he probably just got nervous and wasn’t paying attention to details. Being under fire changes everything!
Inter-service rivalries are funny things. I find those more prevalent among younger guys and I was like that as well. However, after calling in air strikes and seeing the Air Force and Navy respond with such devastating efficiency during Desert Storm, I quickly dropped my attitude towards the other branches. If anything, I wish I knew who the pilots were so I could send them a bottle of whatever it is they drank!
Richie PEARLS SERIES author
Excellent movie and entertainment on all counts.
Most excellent discussion and sharing of data for this subject matter.
Thank you
When they recieved the coded orders over the comunication machine that told them wher e to go...couldn't that have gsve them the codes for the bombs? It would seem logical...and the Authority to drop the Bombs would have been in the message...sort of like the csptsin of a Missle submarine..being given the authority..I mean in the air or under the ocean ...you are alone..and possibly not in contact much during a nuclear war??
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