MovieChat Forums > Law & Order (1990) Discussion > Small details that made me lose big chun...

Small details that made me lose big chunks of respect for the show


This is a list of small details (small as in 'easily overlooked if you're not paying attrention', not small as in "unimportant") and short lines that made me lose big chunks of respect for an otherwise excellent show.
It's not an exhaustive list, and is something I will come back and add to - I'm not sure yet if I'll add by editing this starting post or adding as replies, but here are three important ones to get things started: (not necessarily in order of importance)

1. "You're not a killer. You're a serial killer!" (S15, Ep14 - "Fluency") - Detective Fontana's (Dennis Farina) accusation aimed at a small-time dealer of various counterfeit products who passed on a quantity of fake flu vaccine (saline solution) after a number of people who were given the vaccine actually died from the illness because they never developed the antibodies.
Here's the thing: this show has a number of writers, all of whom must be, by definition, fairly intelligent people, PLUS there are consultants on police procedure, equipment, terminology/lingo, etc, working on the show, so how is it that a layman like me can catch this jarring detail while none of them do? The correct - and VERY DIFFERENT - categorisation Fontana was looking for is MASS MURDERER, not "serial killer". He's supposed to be a detective, so how could he not know the definition of a serial killer? This line would only ever serve to show him up as ignorant - not something I believe the writers would want to do (unless there was some behind the scenes spat between them and Farina that I'm not aware of!?).
You can easily look this up, but after many, many films and many, many episodes of many different crime and detective shows featuring serial killers, I'm sure most of you must know that a serial killer kills a series of people that have some aspect in common, whether it be a physical or a personality trait; furthermore, serial killers almost always kill directly (as opposed to remotely), and will kill their victims one by one (by preference), not as a group.
Someone who kills an unconnected (except perhaps by geographical proximity) mass of people, indiscriminately, usually simultauneously and possibly remotely, or indirectly, is a mass murderer (and that's IF intent can be proven, otherwise I suppose it would be mass manslaughter, which may not even be an actual category in usage). OF COURSE, the point of Detective Fontana's line was to hype up the accusation, to throw something with big impact at the criminal, a loaded definition to startle and scare, it wouldn't have to be a charge that would stick, HOWEVER "mass murderer" has at least as much impact as "serial killer", if not more, and is just as loaded, historically and culturally.
To be fair, Fontana, with his "Gucci loafers", his overly preening sartorial obsession, is actually portrayed as a bit buffoonish and a bit thick - at one point, in another episode, after Det. Green picks up a coffee cup discarded by one brother of a duo of TWIN suspects for the DNA on it, Fontana bemoans that they only have ONE brother's DNA, before Green points out that they're IDENTICAL TWINS (which Fontana was well aware of) - thus with IDENTICAL DNA! So maybe this dumbassery is in character, but I still feel it's unforgivable of a detective with many years of experience to mis-diagnose "serial killer".


2. "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" (S15, Ep13 - "Ain't No Love") - A.D.A. Serena Southerlyn's parting shot to the bow of her boss, D.A. Branch, who had just fired her, already (and quite rightly) has its own separate post here, but it bears repeating. This was her response to being, let's say "let go" rather than fired, as it was done in a positive rather than aggressive or negative way, and her line comes after a very clear, perfectly explained reasoning for being let go, that ENTIRELY revolved around her temperament and approach to the job, to do with her passionate stances, which would have suited her more to being on the other side of the court, as a defender, rather than as a "cold-blooded", dispassionate prosecutor, so for her to bring up something that no character on the show was ever even hinted at knowing about, after already having the reason for being let go very beautifully explained by Branch, was simply ridiculous.
I read that Elisabeth Röhm wanted to go out with a bang rather than a whimper, so she apparently discussed with the writers (and presumably the producers too) her final scene, and this is how they chose to send her off. I get that impulse of writing in a bit of a curveball for a character's farewell, BUT the line is so out of the blue and rings so hollow that it only served to be utterly laughable. To me it sounded exactly like Ali G hilariously blurting his "Is it coz I is black?" line at any random, nonsensical "opportunities". Terrible writing choice that should have been caught and easily edited out after filming the episode once they (surely) must have seen how badly it played on screen.


3. "Splatter/spatter" - I'm sure I've heard Detective Green (Jesse L. Martin) use the erroneous "blood splatter" at least once, although I couldn't quote the episode right now. He used the incorrect version of the term even though he had previously (and afterwards) used the correct "blood spatter" on quite a few other occasions!
This is going to be a big bugbear of any forensic scientist, and especially blood spatter analysts (obviously). Dexter was one good example of a great show always at pains to use the correct term, as you might expect, and this issue has now become a pretty good indicator to me for working out whether a new detective /crime show is any good: as soon as you hear "splatter" instead of "spatter" you'll know it's a pile of steaming turds. I recall even one of the (how many dozens of spin-offs do they have now??) C.S.I.s actually using "splatter" on occasion, which you would think would surely never be the case - but it was.


"It's too late... Always has been, always will be...
Too late."

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I'll give you number 2, but I think your griping about how the other points made you "lose respect" for the show is kind of ridiculous. Regarding #1, while I wouldn't say Fontana was exactly dumb, he didn't strike me as being overly bright either. He also struck me as the type of cop who wouldn't care so much about proper terminology when trying to make a dramatic point to a suspect (and I would imagine there are some real life NY cops who would also not be so semantically enlightened). So while technically he did use the wrong term, I don't see that it makes a whole hell of a lot of difference with regard to the overall quality of the show.

And as for point #3, it's possible that the actor inadvertently said the wrong word during filming, and perhaps due to time constraints and the fact that the rest of take was good, the director decided it wasn't worth it to go back and redo it for just one word that was only slightly off (assuming anyone even noticed). In any event, since you only remember "splatter" happening maybe once on a series that ran for 20 seasons, again I don't see that it puts a black stain on the quality of the show.

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Agreed, his whining is ridiculous. The Serena lesbian line was bad and one of the worst lines on L&O, but the others, who cares?

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Yes, I do agree that Fontana is portrayed as a bit thick - in fact, I even added this very point before I had refreshed the page to see your own post saying just that.
As for "splatter", it did occur to me that it was an actorly mistake and they just didn't bother/didn't have the time for a re-do.

I wouldn't quite call either of those "black stains", I know I said "big chunks of respect", but I suppose the respect I lose is mostly limited to those episodes, and it may be temporary, after all, I did score the show a 9, and I do call it excellent.

Look, people, I know I am perhaps being over picky, and I have been spoiled for quality television, particularly over the last couple of decades, but this is actually a mark of the high regard I have for the show, and the high standards I hold it to.
I may be overly exacting at times, but I do feel details are important, and sometimes they matter to an extraordinary degree, so let this post serve as a reminder of that.


"It's too late... Always has been, always will be...
Too late."

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Wow. If what you add to your list are like what you have already listed, I ask "why the he** do you watch any fictional tv at all?" For these very minor "infractions" there will be a hundred great moments from this series. Writers are not God. They will have missteps.

I agree with Dreamsville's point about Fontana. He was the type who really could give a flying piece of crap what the technical term would have been for that criminal. He was making a "point". As for Green, he's a detective, & this wasn't CSI. If you watch CSI, there were times when they would throw out the right terms, & the detectives would look at them like they were aliens. They don't care what the right term is supposed to be, it's not their job.

How many CSI's are there? Uh, none. They're all reruns now. I really think you should be looking at the fact that you're comparing apples & oranges. There are "forensic" type series, & there are "police/detective/law" series. The pros from one group do not do the jobs from the other group-as they will tell each other many times. Thus using the correct terminology probably won't happen.

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Yes, of course that "for these very minor "infractions" there are hundreds of great moments from this series." - I have practically said as much when I called this show excellent. I hold the show in very high regard, and because of that, I hold it to a very high standard.

"Writers are not God. They will have missteps" I know this. I agree with this. I just have perhaps overly exacting standards, and I know that sometimes, small details matter to an extreme degree - not in fictionalized artforms, perhaps, but in real life, and I can't help it if I notice details others don't, or if they grate on me more than on others. Perhaps it's a gift. Perhaps it's a gift and a curse.

"I agree with Dreamsville's point about Fontana." - I do too, actually. I even said that Fontana was making a point. You saw that, right? And I now added that I do believe this may be a bit in character for Fontana, as he is sometimes portrayed as not the brightest, and not a subtle man, definitely not overly given to details - unless they're to do with the fripperies of a limited sector of men's fashion. He's no Robert Goren, that's for sure.

When I was mentioning CSI, I wasn't praising that show. CSI is an affront to intelligence, in particular the incredibly patronising and completely awful and clumsy way they chose to remind their audience in practically EVERY EPISODE of the name, purpose and technique of even the simplest and most common of forensic procedures that they had performed again and again in every episode ("Let me get the luminol spray" -"Oh, you mean the solution that glows under a blacklight in the presence of organic matter, such as blood?" -"Yes, that's the one, if by blacklight, you mean a UV lamp" -"Yes, that's right, a UV, or Ultra-Violet light. Please pass it, it's in my bag" /// "Have you tested for GSR on the suspect's sleeves?" -"Oh, you mean gun shot residue, the hard-to-remove trace powder that is left behind after shooting a gun?" -"Yes, that's the one." Etc, etc), not trusting their feeble-minded viewers (in their evident opinion) with even the simplest of recall tasks, and in doing so, they ultimately ensured that this became a self-fulfilling prophesy, as the audience they deserved steadily became the audience they got.

"It's too late... Always has been, always will be...
Too late."

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The only times such goofs irk me are when they play more than a passing role in the overall plot of the episode. I recall an episode where they mentioned an intersection between two streets which didn't exist because the two streets ran parallel and never intersected.

The worst editing in an episode was the opening sequence in Season One's "Subterranean Homeboy Blues," based on the 1984 Bernie Goetz subway shooting They showed several random clips of different subway trains and platforms and stations and pieced them together in a shoddy manner that made me laugh out loud as it progressed.

But I am also impressed when they get key references correct, especially when it matters a lot in the overall plot. In that episode about the gay cop who got hung out to dry in a shooting, Cragen mentioned how a wrong address played a role in the shooting. The wrong address was about 40 blocks away, as he said.

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The wrong address was mentioned by the cops who didn't want to be bothered backing up that gay cop! Funny how the "blue wall" turns "yellow" over something that shouldn't concern them! Just saw a "Blue Bloods" episode where a "1-13," "officer in trouble with shots fired" and several nearby cops ignored the call! She had testified against her partner who choked out a prisoner! Who would want to be bothered with such a mindset of idiots? 

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Yeah that is why no one respects cops and why most people hate them. Most of them are sheep who cover for dirty cops and when a cop does the moral thing and turns in dirty cops the police turn on the whistle blower instead of turning on the dirty cop. This is why police forces are so corrupt and abuse their power regularly, and it needs to change

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That is so strange, but it extends to family members! Some mother was being interviewed in the audience of an old Oprah show and when she brought up her cop son was a "good boy" for not ratting out his corrupt partner, I just shook my head! You are right; that's why it's so hard to trust cops and the system when it's so openly hypocritical!  

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I recall an episode where they mentioned an intersection between two streets which didn't exist because the two streets ran parallel and never intersected.

The worst editing in an episode was the opening sequence in Season One's "Subterranean Homeboy Blues," based on the 1984 Bernie Goetz subway shooting They showed several random clips of different subway trains and platforms and stations and pieced them together in a shoddy manner that made me laugh out loud as it progressed.
L & O 's concept of New York City geography is quite hilarious at times. But as you said, if it's not something that's a crucial element to the story, then it really doesn't make a difference.

And actually, the most glaring geographical "mistake" the show makes is in its premise of having the detectives from the fictional "27" investigate homicides committed all over Manhattan, as if Manhattan was one big precinct unto itself. In reality Manhattan has 22 precincts, each covering a smallish section of the island (one precinct consists entirely of just Central Park), so realistically the detectives should be investigating crimes originating within a much narrower geographical area of the city. But hey - that wouldn't be nearly as much fun to watch. :)

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I liked the recurring catchphrases used by two of my favorite detectives you mentioned:
Fontana: We're authorized.
Green: Sit your ass down!

The small stuff doesn't bother me. IMO, L&O was far better for realism than nearly every other cop show from the past 20 years.

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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Haha, yep, those two catchphrases do represent them pretty perfectly, and they immediately echoed in my head in their own voices as I read them.

It still doesn't quite seem real that Farina passed away, he always struck me as one of those people that would live until they slowly faded away, like Gene Wilder - but then so did Michael Jackson, Prince, David Bowie, Leonard Cohen, Alan Rickman...

On the flip side of that terrible coin, I bet Trump will live on to make millions (if not billions!) of lives miserable for many, many years to come. I wish I hadn't said that now, as I half-jokingly predicted he'd win. OK, let me make another prediction: he will die of stress in the first month of the presidency after the first run of a few continuous days of work he will have done in his entire life. But that still leaves Pence. A stray asteroid?

"It's too late... Always has been, always will be...
Too late."

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On the flip side of that terrible coin, I bet Trump will live on to make millions (if not billions!) of lives miserable for many, many years to come. I wish I hadn't said that now, as I half-jokingly predicted he'd win. OK, let me make another prediction: he will die of stress in the first month of the presidency after the first run of a few continuous days of work he will have done in his entire life. But that still leaves Pence. A stray asteroid?

Please don't turn this board into a political discussion.
AFAIK, Trump never appeared in nor was the subject of an L&O episode.

I'd post the same if the post focused on Hillary or the other side.

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