I agree, dave-1273. I'm long past the point of this being must-see for me. Now it's become a weekly test to see whether or not the guest host is going to be any good. Anyone who's listened to the commentary on the Best Of DVDs will have noticed how disparaging Paul Merton is of the gimmicky episodes - the parrot, David Shayler on the TV, having both the Hamiltons on his team - and yet that's how the show feels every week, now - gimmicky.
Unless they use one of their recurring reliable guest hosts, like Kirsty Young, it's just a case of "Will the guest host blow it tonight? Will they turn it into a show all about them?" I mean, I loved Brian Blessed, but after about fifteen minutes I was just wondering, "When will the show actually start?" As for Boris Johnson - the act was funny the first time, but please, please, no more.
I still have never seen any satisfactory explanation of why Merton did not like Deayton. Was he jealous, perhaps, of his apparent attraction to women? He's never actually said what specifically he disliked.
This clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMXiR089ARQ of Paul on the Parkinson show discusses the whole sacking, and though he doesn't explain, "I disliked him because..." he does express an antipathy which seems to exist simply because he found Angus dull and unfunny ("We lost Zeppo"), which is a bit unfair. I mean, fair enough if you just don't get on with someone or have no chemistry, but to actively dislike them just because you don't think they're funny seems a little... immature. Something else must have gone on, but God only knows what. Maybe Angus is a really horrible bloke personally, I don't know.
I can't make up my mind about Paul Merton. First, I think he's a genuine comedy genius, with the most incredible ability to make these tremendous mental leaps and get great laughs from it. But as a person, I can't tell if the bitter streak he displays is simply part of his befuddled curmudgeon person or a genuine trait.
On the one hand, over the years, he's shown tremendous generosity in sticking up for guests and leaping in with a gag to rescue the show if someone else has said something deadly unfunny. On the other, he often seems resentful of other people getting laughs and is hyper-critical of remarks he feels don't measure up. On the Best Of, he complains that Griff Rhys Jones wouldn't let him get a word in on a particular question and he had to try to "break in" half a dozen times - completely ignoring the fact that Jones was already speaking, and it was Merton rudely trying to interrupt and step on his gag! (I don't quite know where I'm going with this analysis, by the way. I'm just getting some stuff off my chest.)
He always used to openly sneer at Deayton's gags, even though they were scripted and out of his hands, and mocked him for using an autocue, which always seemed weird to me - he was the host, he had a script, what's odd about that? Why mock someone for doing the job they were hired to do?
I have the impression that he resented Angus being regarded as part of the show's success, or funny, or talented at all, when he was "just" reading from an autocue every week. As plenty of the guest hosts have shown, it's not necessarily that easy to read from a script and make it feel off-the-cuff. I even found Merton himself stilted when he guest-hosted on that first Angus-free week. (Anyone who saw his attempt at the Hancock scripts will have observed that working from a script is not Paul Merton's forte.)
Sure, Paul's wit was always the chief ingredient in the show's comedic success, but that doesn't mean the others were talentless or insignificant. Having someone in the middle who just read the gags as required and didn't try to hog the limelight either through showing-off or sheer incompetence was what provided the framework for the comedy. On the recent shows I've seen, even Paul seems like he's grown tired of the whole thing. Maybe he should take another series off, like he did before - a decision he insists improved the show. Just to recharge the batteries and see if there's any life left in the format.
Frankzappayay,
I can barely remember all this, and I never knew the full story to begin with. The reason for me not knowing is mainly because I don't give a *beep* Angus did coke with a pair of hookers or something?
He had a two-night stand with a woman who turned out to be a prostitute (though he didn't know that, and did not pay for the sex) and took cocaine in front of her. He had a long-term girlfriend, the writer Lise Meyer, and a small child.
Now, to me, the drugs are nothing to write home about - probably most of the people on the show's staff have taken SOMETHING illegal, for goodness' sake - and the sex is an issue for him and his girlfriend to deal with. However, Angus had spent the preceding decade taking the piss out of other people for their tabloid-friendly sexual peccadilloes and drug-use, so it became difficult for him to maintain that smug distance in the wake of the story. When people leap to defend Angus against the supposedly vindictive treatment heaped on him by his teammates, it rings odd to me - had it been any other celebrity in the papers, Angus would have been reading gags about them and getting paid for it, and nobody would have bothered.
Really, the streak of hypocrisy it exposed in the show, in its host and in its viewers just makes me uneasy now. Because I find myself saying, "Well, what's so bad about what he did? Why is it anyone else's business anyway?" and yet I didn't say that about any of the other people being hung out to dry on the show for the same misbehaviour.
Otherwise, I think they are a bunch of dicks for kicking him out. I think if anyone knows and posts the truth here, I would be quite interested.
That Parkinson interview indicates that they had intended to keep him on, but that it just became impossible to proceed with the show without the coke-and-hooker story completely dominating it. Paul recalls the producers coming to him with a list of gags that Angus wouldn't read, or stories that he couldn't address, without embarrassing himself and opening himself up to the same comments. That's assuming Paul's interpretation of the sacking is accurate, of course.
And none of [the guest hosts] do a particularly bad job.
Did you see Neil Kinnock?
EDITED TO ADD: There were further allegations made of Angus - namely a long-running affair - and this article contains some additional details and an interesting perspective on the whole business:
http://www.offthetelly.co.uk/comedy/hignfy3.htmNow cure me of my madness or I won't put my shoes on, ever.
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suesflange
16 years ago
^^^ "Maybe Angus is a really horrible bloke personally, I don't know."
A long time ago- when Deayton was still the host, I was lost very early one morning in Central London, looking for an address. I was in a very quiet road, with no-one around, apart from one lone figure getting money out of a cashpoint. I walked up behind him, and asked if he knew this address. He was very polite, very helpful, gave me very precise directions and offered to draw me a map. I've never met a more helpful person. I thanked him, to which he replied- "Not at all, it's my pleasure, you're very welcome" and turned round to get back into my car. I took two steps then stopped and said out loud : "Holy sh!t- that was Angus Deayton" I turned back round and he'd disappeared. I'm gutted I didn't recognise him while I was actually talking to him but I can state from personal experience he is a VERY nice guy.
"Stay out of trouble you crazy kids" - Winston Wolf.
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Invalid_Litter_Dept
16 years ago
Aw, that's really sweet. Thanks for sharing, suesflange.
(God knows I'm not sure I'd be particularly polite or helpful if someone came up behind me at a cashpoint, and I'm sure I have less money to steal than Angus! )
Now cure me of my madness or I won't put my shoes on, ever.
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dave-1273
16 years ago
To Invalid Litter Dept:
Wow! Your opinions are spot on. I could almost have written what you wrote myself! I too noticed that the Hislop/Merton voiceovers on The Best Of DVD (and why wasn’t Angus allowed to put his commentary on?) are withering about Angus. When Angus does do an unscripted joke (about TuTu Train), Merton has to step right in and try to steal the laughter from him.
You can pick 1001 holes in the argument for Angus’ sacking. I wonder if Merton was envious of him. Angus can’t have been that bad – an excellent chap like Stephen Fry was prepared to stand by him and not appear on the programme in response to the sacking.
I also fully agree with what you said about Merton and a script. I remember his Channel Four series that he wrote while Angus was still in HIGNFY and remember feeling a bit…well, guilty, that I found it very unfunny. This was PAUL MERTON for crying out loud! If he is THAT funny on HIGNFY with unscripted material, think about how funny he would be WITH planning, a script etc. But the material just wasn’t there. That’s why the original line up was so good, so strong – the three of them complimented each other. Two of them were good at unscripted stuff, one of them at scripted stuff – perfect!
Now, when I catch bits of it, it seems like a nice cosy little showbiz quiz. The edge has gone from it.
I also agree that what he’d got up to was his own personal business and nothing to do with anyone else. They have had Chris Tarrant hosting, and he wasn’t faithful to his wife either. Sacking him because they feared jokes might have been turned around on Angus is pathetic. They could have given the programme a rest for, say, a year, and when it returned Angus would have sorted himself out and the BBC could have said to its employees (let’s face it, that’s all they are) both regular and irregular – ‘You must make no mention of Angus’ indiscretions as that subject has been done to death.’ Simple, really.
I might be wrong but I have a feeling that Fry created QI as a sort of reaction to all this. If I’m right, at least one good thing came from the sacking. QI is streets ahead of HIGNFY with guest hosts. In some ways it might be blessing to Angus – he got out (albeit that he didn’t plan to) before the show started going downhill.
All in all, I think he’s a man more sinned against than sinning and I think it terrible that his significant contribution to its initial success has been forgotten. Even on Freeview or BBC2 when they show ‘Have I Got Old News For You’ type programmes, they’re always the ones with the guest hosts.
The DVD I have of Best Of with Angus stands the test of time. When I first saw Julian Clary host, I thought it was very good. When I saw it repeated a year or so ago, I thought it was awful – only one bit made me laugh. I know you could argue that Best Of with Angus is just the choice bits, but I used to video the programme every week and re-watch it with Angus at the helm. The whole episode with Stephen Fry’s first appearance is alone worth the whole series with the guest hosts. And there were lots of great episodes, all of which had material that could easily make several Best Of DVD’s.
On Merton and Hislop’s commentary on the DVD they noticeably say very little about Stephen Fry, as though embarrassed by his reaction to the sacking.
Merton definitely has some immature problem about Angus. On the DVD he has a go at Angus’ taste in clothes (i.e. the famous brown suit) yet have you seen the awful things he wears? What’s with that big furry thing? His reaction to jokes against him is not as sporting as the reaction Angus gives to the constant jokes against him.
Sadly, I think I’m p***ing in the wind as I don’t think they will ever allow Angus back.
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EmpComm
16 years ago
I somewhat agree. I think that behind Merton's bumbling likeable appearance is a bitter childish (albeit very comedic) guy. He has a certain nasty edge to him that shows up at times. As for Angus, I don't see why he should have been let go. Sure there would have been jokes at his expense, but that would have been funny. The episode they recorded straight after the scandal broke is one of my favourites. But I don't thinkt he show has gone downhill. It's just a little less consistent.
But you're right, QI is great. I also like Angus' new show, Would I Lie To You? It's hardly highbrow biting satire, but it's a nice little distraction, and it proves that he hasn't lost his sardonic touch.
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r-obsessed
16 years ago
I think that the show is a lot more conservative, or perhaps reserved is a better word, since it moved to BBC1. They have to be a lot more careful about what they say these days. It's really hard with the whole with or without Angus thing because I'm not sure it would have managed to stay fresh enough with one host and two regulars to last the 18 years that it has. Having said that, that is nothing to do with Angus leaving I just think that it would have gone stale by now without the change. By creating a new guest spot it constantly invigorates the show. Episodes rarely have the same style - some hosts like Anna Ford or Damien Lewis were highly professional and made the jokes work and other hosts like Boris or Gordon Ramsey turned it round so they were part of the joke!
The episode after Angus was in the tabloids was one of the best episodes ever and I think he knew that for those weeks he was fair game and if the stories were going to keep cropping up in the papers he couldn't carry on. But he was a fantastic host. On the dvd, Paul and Ian said that originally Sandi Toksvig was going to host it, I think Sandi is brilliantly funny and a great improviser, but that's not whats needed for a host. The host should be the straight man for the teams to bounce off, which Angus had down to a very fine art!
It's odd because Ian was always the one to have a go at guests for being immoral or doing something wrong so when Paul says anything negative it comes across (at least to me) as quite bitchy or bitter. Normally Ian has a go and then Paul makes a joke out of it - like Boris Johnson and the Darius Guppy stuff or Paula Yates.
I don't think Paul is a really bitter person - in Whose Line is it anyway and Just a Minute and things he's always very amiable and only goes in for the kill on people he knows very well and are fair game! Like in Whose Line and on Just a Minute he always picks on Josie Lawrence because they've worked together for twenty odd years and that's the way it is. It was the same with Tony Slattery (on HIGNFY as well). So to hear Paul say things that actually sound bitter or bitchy is quite shocking. I have no idea why Paul disliked Angus, but he obviously did because he was so much more vocal about it all than Ian. I wonder whether without Paul, they might have kept him. But we'll never know sadly!
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s1ashs-snakepit
16 years ago
You're right about it being conservative these days. It's become an institution in itself, which means it's nowhere near as biting as when Angus was on it. I think the guest presenter role has become hackneyed and you can tell, certainly with Merton, that he's looking very bored being there.
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combatreview
16 years ago
I say To Hell with bringing Angus back - he was never more than an extremely good presenter, but is famously dependent on prepared material, not the greatest improviser. Besides, he's fundamentally compromised and vulnerable to the bullying of his co-stars.
What REALLY needs to happen is for Ian Hislop to get chucked. Since he gained this delusion of his comic significance he's become more and more sanctimonious and objectionable. A talking copy of the Daily Mail could achieve the same level of sneering, judgementalism, and petty-minded self-righteousness, and wouldn't have any delusions about it's own politics either.
The show should never have been so tightly bound to the identities of the regular guests. The format is the thing, and would easily survive their absence provided you got contests of sufficient calibre. It's true of every comparable show you can name, including it's parent incarnation - The News Quiz.
Just a pity Alan Coren isn't still with us. I'd love to have seen him dropped onto Hislop.
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16 years ago
[deleted]
r-obsessed
16 years ago
I think what you guys have said about Paul and Angus is spot on. When you listen to the Best of DVD commentary, they mention that Sandi Toksvig was being considered as host; Paul worked very closely with Sandi for years as part of the Comedy Store Players, so I guess Paul would have been happier for her to do it? They also mention that at the beginning it was Angus that got the big pay packet and the clothing allowance (Paul mentions having to borrow Neil Mullarkey's jacket!) I think Paul resented Angus because he was seen as the mainstay of the show and was paid the most and in Paul's opinion it's worth a lot more to have repartee and be able to improvise on anything than "simply" read jokes out. But like you said, Paul is no star at script reading!!! He's fantastic at improvising - check him out with the Comedy Store Players or dig out episodes of Whose Line is it anyway? or The Masterson Inheritance - he's brilliant. But he was no Hancock in the reworkings of the Hancock's Half Hour programmes. I've got an old video of Paul Live at the Palladium and it's fantastic - it's like a mock variety show with stand up mixed in with sketches, songs and the like. The sketches are brilliant - they are based on a script, but Paul, Richard (Vranch) and Lee (Simpson) quickly start a bit of impro. But after seeing that, I saw some of Paul Merton - The Series, in which he recycles the same old sketches, but with a script, a set and no impro they just don't work anywhere near as well. I agree that Paul has looked bored this series - although he did seem to wake up a bit in the latest episode. I'm going to see next week's being filmed so that'll be interesting! And Paul has always had a habit of grabbing the laughs - when he does impro he lets someone talk for ages and not give them anything, just stand arms crossed watching, and then when they stop he ridicules one thing they've said and take the laugh. Having said that, that's not meant to be as critical as it sounds. Everyone in the Comedy Store Players is different, Paul's contributions are the surreal, breaking the 4th wall stuff and they've worked together for so long that they know that about each other!
As for Ian, he's always been the one that sits on his throne sniping at anyone who disagrees with his middle class ways. Look at how he sat on Vince Cable this week - it's only what he used to do, we just haven't seen it for a while because the show has been full of "celebrities" or comedians and no politicians. I'm quite glad they've moved back away from the Mock the Week/every other panel show thing this series at having the same group of comedians doing the circuit. It feels like they've tried to go back to how it was before by having some more serious guests. I thought it was quite entertaining when they showed the clip of Ian making a boob on Question Time - he looked mortified that his tower was crumbling a bit!
As people have already said, having a guest host like Tom Baker, Brian Blessed, Boris Johnson is brilliant, but only occasionally. If something is mad all the time, you lose what it was. I prefer the host to be more like Angus - the straight man - so Kirsty Young, Damien Lewis, Alexander Armstrong and even Jack Dee were good for me.
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