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The love story in this movie Vs one in Titanic

posted 10 years ago by Hendry_William_French
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How come it's so different, as in better? I mean, James Cameron wrote and directed both movies (and both are similar ocean themed love epics) yet the relationship between Bud and Lindsay is a hundred times more convincing than the one Titanic (It's also actually subtle and not cheesy). How come Cameron turned into such a hack who couldn't write for $hit between both movies?

Yeah, the couple in this film are older than the ones in Titanic (and the circumstances are different especially with them being separated) but I found the love story so much more grand and emotional in The Abyss.

Take for example in Abyss when the woman realizes that her husband doesn't have enough oxygen to return to the surface, she breaks down and tells him the gauge could be wrong (even though it clearly isn't - this is what people who really love each other think, that there's always a way even when there isn't, and deep down they know it). It's a simple but powerful scene and it's extremely good acting on Mary E. Mastrantonio's part. The same goes for when Bud tries to revive Lindsay after she drowns - a really powerful performance.

By contrast, in Titanic - everything is forced. The dialogue between them is really poor and fake. Both actors are mismatched/miscast. They have all that bull$hit about never letting go when the guy is freezing to death in the water (broad could've scooched over a tad and let the girly man on).

The biggest problem in Titanic is that they show them doing things - riding the bow, f'in in a car, gratuitous melon shots. You see all this stuff, but you never feel they actually have anything of substance between them. In the Abyss, thanks to the incredible caliber of acting on show from Harris and Mastrantonio, and thanks to a better script, you really get moved by how they speak and interact with one another, and how their story develops with the film. That's what makes this film a classic of the genre, and Titanic generic garbage.

Motown, get your Detroit jukebox Jheri curl ass in this chicken$hit chop-chop! ASAFP!

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Hendry_William_French 10 years ago

You must realize the romance in The Abyss was from a couple who had been married and developed a mature devotion toward one another.

That's true. I do realize both are different in set up, but that doesn't explain why the ones in Titanic are so unconvincing. Bud and Lindsay are starting from a position of acrimony - it's essentially a much tougher thing to pull off in The Abyss of them coming together convincingly than it is of two people who have an instant connection like in Titanic.

Two different films aimed at two different crowds

I reckon The Abyss isn't really aimed at a specific crowd, it's pretty universal (action, sci-fi, romance, drama, mystery). It's the same with Titanic even though that's on a much bigger scale.

Titanic was more about teenage infatuation and being care-free

I think just because something is a 'teen love story', it shouldn't excuse its awkwardness or lack of real emotion. 1987's Can't Buy Me Love had a high school romance that was both mature and believable. Thing is, young people aren't morons. They dream of falling in love from when they're very young, even if they don't show it (it's in their DNA). They are able, in a lot of cases, to gauge their emotions at that age because they know exactly what they're feeling, thus showing a love story featuring them doesn't have to be so generic and forced.

The Jack-Rose duo in Titanic are annoyingly babyish and act like a couple of brats. Everything is wrong with their romance, mainly down to Cameron's lame script and the bad acting on show. He took a more refined and intelligent approach in The Abyss and basically created a real love story that was both epic and believable. I don't know how he conspired to monumentally f-k up Titanic so badly when he made such a masterpiece here with this film.

Motown, get your Detroit jukebox Jheri curl ass in this chicken$hit chop-chop! ASAFP!

[–] lordjames-1 10 years ago

I agree with you. Sadly, I think The Abyss taught Cameron a terrible lesson about priorities. Cameron undoubtedly worked harder on The Abyss than any other movie he has ever or has yet to make. And, he was rewarded with a movie that barely made any money. I think he learned that he was working way too hard on parts of a movie that the average viewer does not care about. This was reinforced when the half-baked love story in Titanic was enough to become the highest grossing movie of all time by an enormous margin. Cameron obviously spent most of his effort on Titanic working on being historically accurate, underwater adventures, and solving technical problems. (the things he was personally interested in) The love story felt like a first draft he never bothered to revise. I think he knew/suspected that the people he needed to hook with the love story were too dumb to be discerning. You can see this repeated in Avatar. It seems obvious to me that Cameron's opinion of his audience has lessened throughout his career. But, I blame his audience for not appreciating The Abyss as much as it deserved. I think had this movie been immediately recognized as Cameron's 2001, he would have taken a different path of greater artistic integrity.

[–] Hendry_William_French 10 years ago

Great post, lord james. Agreed 100%.

Cameron undoubtedly worked harder on The Abyss than any other movie he has ever or has yet to make. And, he was rewarded with a movie that barely made any money

It's a shame The Abyss didn't break the 100m barrier, it deserved it and no doubt scared Cameron into the taking the easy route with his subsequent movies. The Abyss was an example of a great movie whose box office was a disappointment but watching it today the movie still looks timeless and is just as powerful if not moreso.

I think he learned that he was working way too hard on parts of a movie that the average viewer does not care about. This was reinforced when the half-baked love story in Titanic was enough to become the highest grossing movie of all time by an enormous margin

think he knew/suspected that the people he needed to hook with the love story were too dumb to be discerning. You can see this repeated in Avatar

That's true, he knew how to pander to generic audiences and what made them happy. Titanic and Avatar are technical marvels, something which JC worked on the most, but then he skimped on the script because it didn't need to be worked on anyway, just put anything in there and audiences won't care. I hate that attitude. Cameron wrote and directed near flawless films in Terminator, Aliens and Abyss. I can't believe the same guy did Titanic and Avatar.

$hitter was full

[–] lordjames-1 10 years ago

Yeah. It's such a shame seeing a guy capable of using a nuanced, artistic touch choose not to use it. But, I will say after re-watching both Titanic and Avatar, I think he did a little better in that department with Avatar. So, hopefully now that he has proven he is capable of making the highest grossing movie of all time whenever he wants, he will move on to some other challenge. (like winning Best Picture at will)

[–] Hendry_William_French 10 years ago

I will say after re-watching both Titanic and Avatar, I think he did a little better in that department with Avatar.

Agreed.

I wonder if the Avatar sequels will be more of the same of what was in the original or will Cameron try and make them more deeper and less generic like what he pulled off in The Abyss?

Merry Christmas! $hitter was full

[–] Nobodyinnit 8 years ago

Because the Abyss centered more strongly around the characters and their relationships - ALL characters, in fact, not just Bud and Lindsey - and the real-time predicament they are in. The aliens are almost an afterthought.

Titanic centered on the event, re-creating details that were known, and special/practical effects to outdo all the other Titanic releases before it. Jack and Rose were the afterthought in this case. As Cameron said, he was passionate about the Titanic, the event, the underwater exploration etc. but in order to make the audience give a damn he knew he had to throw in a love story. Sadly it was a terrible love story with cardboard characters, unlike in the Abyss. If it had been a couple we cared about, it could have been a truly fantastic film.