MovieChat Forums > Lonesome Dove (1989) Discussion > Is Clara justified in hating Call?

Is Clara justified in hating Call?


It seems to me that Gus may have loved Clara, but he loved being a Ranger too much to let a woman tie him down. That also seems to be why Clara always rejected his proposals. He just isn't good relationship material.

But it seems to me that Call, who isn't much of a ladies man, bets unfairly blamed for Gus being the way he is. I don't see Gus being any more a settling down type without Call, and it seems Clara should have enough sense to realize that Gus would be Gus no matter who his partner was.

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It's textbook displacement. She's angry that Gus won't settle down and be a stay-at-home kind of man. But she loves him, so it's not "safe" to blame him, so she takes it out on Call and blames him for taking Gus away from her. Deep down, I thin she knows perfectly well that it isn't Call's fault at all, but she has to have a way to get her anger and frustration out of her system, and blaming Call gives her that.

Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff.

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No. She blamed Call for Augustus being a Ranger, when she knew perfectly well Gus made his own decisions.

The only thing Clara was right about with regards to Call was his actions towards Newt. Call should have owned up to being Newt's father and Clara was right to upbraid him for that. Aside from that, she was pretty well wrong about everything else.

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No, she was too harsh - but I liked her strong character, and enjoyed her comment "I think we had the better claim" about their old days (that's how I feel about my own - lol)...

P.S. I liked Gus's comment on leaving, "They'll be nothin' but school houses" - and guess what - they're building one next to where I live (another cow pasture gone)...

P.P.S. But - perhaps a good idea was for Call to temporarily put Gus at rest at Clara's (for about a year) and then the following Spring take him down to Texas for a permanent burial, and this way Lorie would have had a chance to mourn him, and Clara wouldn't have hated him for taking Gus away from them so quickly, and Call could have retuned to Montana to call Newt "Son"...

Glades2

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P.P.S. But - perhaps a good idea was for Call to temporarily put Gus at rest at Clara's (for about a year) and then the following Spring take him down to Texas for a permanent burial, and this way Lorie would have had a chance to mourn him, and Clara wouldn't have hated him for taking Gus away from them so quickly, and Call could have retuned to Montana to call Newt "Son"...


Interesting. The real-life person that Gus McCrae was based on, Oliver Loving, died from gangrene after being injured in a fight with Commanches. Loving, a pioneering cattle rancher, had asked his partner, the famous Charles Goodnight (they formed the Loving-Goodnight Trail) to bury him in Texas. Goodnight (used for Call's character) promised. But first he had to finish the cattle drive, and Loving was temporarily buried in the city he died in. Goodnight had him later exhumed, and took him back to Texas for final burial. There's a small county in Texas named for Loving.








Thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.

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I agree .. she was right on about Newt .. but she put too much blame on Call .. Gus was Gus .. But I would have been in love with Gus also .. he was a ladies man indeed .

"A man that wouldn't cheat for a poke don't want one bad enough".



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It's textbook displacement. She's angry that Gus won't settle down and be a stay-at-home kind of man. But she loves him, so it's not "safe" to blame him, so she takes it out on Call and blames him for taking Gus away from her. Deep down, I thin she knows perfectly well that it isn't Call's fault at all, but she has to have a way to get her anger and frustration out of her system, and blaming Call gives her that.

Good points.

A well-acted scene too from both Angelica Huston and especially Tommy Lee Jones.

His look of resigned acceptance of her contempt for him fits Call's character.

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Never could see what Gus saw in her anyway...too bossy for my taste and unfair to Call who was honoring Gus's last wishes. I wish Gus would have taken up with Lorena - nothing against Pea-eye mind you.







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Never could see what Gus saw in her anyway...too bossy for my taste and unfair to Call who was honoring Gus's last wishes. I wish Gus would have taken up with Lorena - nothing against Pea-eye mind you.


Clara and Gus had been in love with each other for years, ever since Clara was a teenager and working in her parents' store in San Antonio. Gus was already a Ranger, and out of town with his troop when an Indian attack occurred in San Antonio. Clara's parents were killed.

Love is inexplicable. Clara loved Gus, and he loved her. I think they were soulmates. But they were both strong willed people. Clara needed stability, especially after what happened with her parents. She experienced a lot of loss. Gus was not a man who would ever have been content settling down in one place. If he were, he would have stayed in Tennessee where he was born.

Gus was an adventurous soul. His nature demanded it. He could no more become what Clara needed than Clara could suddenly be content to traipse all over with Gus. She married the type of man she needed (not the type she loved); but she always felt the sting of the loss. She knew very well that their separation was not all Gus' fault. In fact, it was nobody's fault. They just were who they were. And even though Gus had been married twice, neither wife was strong or fiesty enough to survive, and in no way rivaled Clara.

Love just is. It's an emotion, a connection, a longing. It doesn't require things to fall into place in order to exist. Neither Clara nor Gus could really change their natures, but I think they both treasured what times they did spend together.





Thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.

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Love is inexplicable. Clara loved Gus, and he loved her. I think they were soulmates. But they were both strong willed people. Clara needed stability, especially after what happened with her parents. She experienced a lot of loss. Gus was not a man who would ever have been content settling down in one place. If he were, he would have stayed in Tennessee where he was born.

Gus was an adventurous soul. His nature demanded it. He could no more become what Clara needed than Clara could suddenly be content to traipse all over with Gus. She married the type of man she needed (not the type she loved); but she always felt the sting of the loss. She knew very well that their separation was not all Gus' fault. In fact, it was nobody's fault.

I'll bet Call would take issue with that idea after she got all in his face blaming him for her getting so little of Gus.
Besides, I'm not sure anyone called her a bitch for being tough or hard working. But her attitude. Blaming Call unjustly for Gus's choices. At a time when Call was already grieving, she hatefully piles on more. Knowing he'd never stoop to respond in kind.

I kept wondering what Gus or Bob saw in her to be honest.

Same here.

Call had his faults for sure, but he at least had some class over her in that instance.


~Sig~
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Clara is a hateful bitch who, when she did not get what she wanted out of life(the fantasy of Gus being under her thumb) had to pin her shortcomings on someone, and who better than Gus's best friend. IMHO, one of the more rotten characters in the series.

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Clara is far from hateful; she is an earth mother with a big heart and a generous spirit who calls things what they are. She is a refuge for the friendless like July, his baby, and Lorie; she would have given a job and a home to Newt.
Gus wanted her to give herself to him when they were young, but he didn't want responsibility or roots. She loves Gus, but knows he would never have made a good husband. Clara wanted stability, and she married Bob. She is a woman who thinks with her brain, not her hormones. Good for her!
She has to be strong to run the ranch by herself, raise two daughters, and care for a brain-damaged husband. She is free of pretense and feminine wiles. Some men find her strength intimidating.
She is not a 'bitch', except to men who feel threatened by women with minds of their own.
Actually, she is my favorite character in the series.



"..sure you won't change your mind? Why, is there something wrong with the one I have?"

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I agree with most of that, but you gotta admit that blaming Call for Gus not being the kind of stay-at-home man she wanted is ludicrous. Stubborn as she is, she should have been able to appreciate that Woodrow was honoring Gus' last wish by taking him home; instead, she bitched him out about it and told him she hated him. That's bitchy, whatever the reason.

Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff.

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I think she hated (and, as another poster said, it is misplaced; it is Gus who doesn't want to settle down) Call for other reasons than Gus, although that is a big reason. Deep down even Clara knows this. When she tells the story of 'Clara's Orchard' she says, "He(Gus) wanted what I wouldn't give; I wanted what he didn't have."
Woodrow Call doesn't know how to deal with women. It seems the only woman he ever had to do with was a prostitute, Newt's mother, whom he abandoned. He doesn't even know how to deal with his son, and Clara, who has lost three of her own, doesn't understand how Call cannot acknowledge to the boy that he is his father.
As for the way she feels about Call taking Gus' body to be buried where he asked to be, Clara, practical, where Gus was a romantic and a dreamer, feels that if Gus were buried on her ranch, she would at last hold some part of him, and Lorie would have a place to visit and grieve. I think it's kind of a Men are From Mars Women are From Venus type of thinking. Most men put honor before all else; most women are practical, and you have to admit, Clara was not just thinking of herself. She was also taking care of a grieving young woman who loved Gus, too. It is because of Clara's motherly love and care that Lorie eventually finds her path in life.

I don't think Call is unfeeling by choice. I tend to have compassion for him. He just doesn't know how to deal with his feelings, so he has buried them.You can see how at a loss he is when Clara corners him, and when he tries to talk to his son. He honestly doesn't know how to act.
The only person who knew him well was Gus (since they were young) and they had a code of honor between them. He has lost the only person in the world who 'gets' him, and all he can do for Gus is fulfill his promise, come what may, although even he tells Gus that Clara would be happy to have him buried in her family cemetery; Gus doesn't want to lie next to Clara's deceased husband; he wants to lie in the place where he had a happy memory with her when they were young. Gus was the closest thing to family that Call had (he never made his son his family), and the only person he allowed to remind him that he was human. I guess you could say he had a familial loyalty to his friend. This is what Clara doesn't understand.



"..sure you won't change your mind? Why, is there something wrong with the one I have?"

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I think the years made Clara hard-hearted. Her claim that she doesn't like men any more seems like how a person would react if they never got that men and women are different. The way she turns mean on July "Well you're not stupid, are you?" was a bit harsh. July was one of the nicest people in the series and she kinda bullied him. If she was anything like that when she was younger, it's no surprise she chose to be with Bob instead of Gus. I doubt Gus would tolerate being bullied for very long....even Call "can't boss him".

I do admit that I have a low opinion of Anjelica Huston's acting and felt she was the only part that was not cast brilliantly. That itself doesn't help make the character likable to me.

~Sig~
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I thought Houston was perfect in this role. She has the look of a strong woman who has been through a lot, but has not become completely hardened by it. July seems like a fish out of water. He's not strong enough to take his son and leave, and Clara would probably marry him if he showed any spirit, if for no other reason than to keep Martin, his baby. She is trying to provoke July into standing up for himself. He can't do it. It must be remembered that he didn't even have enough backbone to accept that his wife, Ellie, didn't want him and just walk away until she just up and left.
He proves that he is just too spiritless to be a match for Clara.
Clara is a woman who has had to be as strong as a man to survive after her husband is injured, and she is the kind of person who does not suffer fools gladly.She will never meet her match. Unfortunately, July is a fool. But she continues to offer him shelter and a job, raises his son, and mothers her two girls and Lorie.
I didn't care for Barbara Hershey in the role of Clara in the sequel. She lacks Angelica Houston's salt-of- the earth quality, strength, and stature. She is also too pretty to be believable in the role.


"..sure you won't change your mind? Why, is there something wrong with the one I have?"

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If anything, Houston's take on Clara is much softer than she's written in the books. In the novel, she's not just hardened, she can be downright mean. She doesn't seem to think well of ANYONE she meets, save Cholo her top hand, and Gus - but even that is just based on her liking him, not really respecting/admiring him. She knows he's not for her; hence her consistent refusal to marry him.

Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff.

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she is the kind of person who does not suffer fools gladly.She will never meet her match.

I saw that. Doesn't make her the kind of person I would want in my life. She is welcome to think she is above everyone and to hate men...but I feel like I'm welcome to dislike her for those qualities as well.
I didn't care for Barbara Hershey in the role of Clara in the sequel. She lacks Angelica Houston's salt-of- the earth quality, strength, and stature. She is also too pretty to be believable in the role.

What sequel?* (hands over ears "I'm not listening!")


*I don't acknowledge the sequel novels or movies as a part of the LD universe.

~Sig~
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Okay, Harpo, got it... you don't like Clara. That is your privilege.


Actually, she reminds me of my mother who had many hardships in her life,among which was an abusive husband (not my father), survived, became strong, and still had a heart for others.
If I were alone in the world, I would want Clara for a friend.

I agree with you about the sequels. They should have just stopped with the original.



"..sure you won't change your mind? Why, is there something wrong with the one I have?"

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I say Clara was probably born between July 21 and August 20, if you know what I mean!

I respected Clara a lot, even though she was abrasive at times. She had a very beautiful and spiritual side to her, but with the burial thing, I think she was being very practical. I think Woodrow should have just said to her that Gus wanted to be buried right where he and Clara were sitting next to the pond and been done

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but with the burial thing, I think she was being very practical. I think Woodrow should have just said to her that Gus wanted to be buried right where he and Clara were sitting next to the pond and been done

Call did agree with Clara on that point and told Gus so. Call also told Clara exactly why Gus wanted to be buried in Texas but she was too busy venting her hate on Call to listen.

Call thought it was stupid...but:

1-It's what Gus wanted
2-Call does not break promises.

Clara was probably angry that she couldn't get her way at the end. Gus was doing what he wanted and there was nothing she could do about it. She also must know that there was no way to get Call to break his promise to Gus and that frustrated her as well. All she could do is rant and rave at Call.

~Sig~
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Clara's side - over-emotional, hypersensitive, "Earth Mother", hippie types...

Call's side - People of character and class that use logic and reason.

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[deleted]

I agree that A. Huston was the worst-cast role in an otherwise perfectly casted movie. She just rankles me every time I watch it.






The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell. Don't go back to sleep.

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I've been trying to decide if she's the reason I don't like the character. I don't really like her in any role I've seen her in. Maybe The Adams Family.

~Sig~
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[deleted]

From my understanding, Angelica Huston was a late replacement for the role of Clara because the actress they really wanted, Barbara Hershey, either passed or had other commitments.

Huston is a terrific actress and her role in "Lonesome Dove" is one of her few in which she doesn't look like a drag queen, but I agree that she is wrong for the part.

Firstly, Clara, who was a stunner in her youth, is still supposed to be a beauty (so much so July Johnson falls madly in love with her) and that's why Hershey, who was gorgeous as a younger woman and still a looker in her mid 40's in 1989, was the first choice. Huston was never a great beauty at any age. Secondly, Huston's attempt to play Clara's "soft" side came across as forced. I simply didn't believe her when she's acting all coy and girlish with Gus as they discuss their romantic past and possible future.

However, she nails Clara's anger.

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Firstly, Clara, who was a stunner in her youth, is still supposed to be a beauty (so much so July Johnson falls madly in love with her) and that's why Hershey, who was gorgeous as a younger woman and still a looker in her mid 40's in 1989, was the first choice. Huston was never a great beauty at any age. Secondly, Huston's attempt to play Clara's "soft" side came across as forced. I simply didn't believe her when she's acting all coy and girlish with Gus as they discuss their romantic past and possible future.

However, she nails Clara's anger.

Well said, pretty much nails my feelings about her performance too.

~Sig~
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I see alot of parallels between Clara-Gus and Houston-Jack Nicholson. I think that's why she nails the part.

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I see alot of parallels between Clara-Gus and Houston-Jack Nicholson. I think that's why she nails the part.


What does Jack Nicholson have to do with anything in Lonesome Dove?

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Uh, yeah she is a bitch..."Earth Mother"?... wtf is that?...What hippie commune crap is that?. Clara herself would take exception to that name. Her generosity, kindness and strength to care-take all she does was never in question, the manor in which she treats Call is what was pertinent.

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Anyone who calls women 'bitches' because they are strong enough to work hard, make a success out of difficulty, and tell off a macho idiot like Call who cannot even summon the intestinal fortitude to claim his son is beyond pathetic. The concept of an 'earth mother' for the uneducated such as you is an archetype, not 'hippie crap'. Your limited intelligence is showing.





"..sure you won't change your mind? Why, is there something wrong with the one I have?"

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In fairness, no one called Clara a bitch for working hard. They called her a bitch for blaming Call for "taking" Gus from her. That's just silly; Gus was who he was, and she knew it. Hell, he asked her to marry him THREE TIMES, and SHE said no. But she took it out on Call, and unfairly at that. THAT's what makes her a bit of a bitch to people; not her work ethic, strength, or even being angry with Call about Newt. She was wrong to blame Call for her failed relationships with Gus; pure and simple.

Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff.

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"In fairness, no one called Clara a bitch for working hard. They called her a bitch for blaming Call for "taking" Gus from her. That's just silly; Gus was who he was, and she knew it. Hell, he asked her to marry him THREE TIMES, and SHE said no. But she took it out on Call, and unfairly at that. THAT's what makes her a bit of a bitch to people; not her work ethic, strength, or even being angry with Call about Newt. She was wrong to blame Call for her failed relationships with Gus; pure and simple."

Yup...


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In fairness, no one called Clara a bitch for working hard. They called her a bitch for blaming Call for "taking" Gus from her. That's just silly; Gus was who he was, and she knew it. Hell, he asked her to marry him THREE TIMES, and SHE said no. But she took it out on Call, and unfairly at that. THAT's what makes her a bit of a bitch to people; not her work ethic, strength, or even being angry with Call about Newt. She was wrong to blame Call for her failed relationships with Gus; pure and simple.

Exactly.

I also don't like the way he treated July and her "I hate men" attitude in general.

~Sig~
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My wife starts to cry every time Clara tells Woodrow how much she detests him and this right after she has broken Gus's heart. Then the look on Woodrow's face (an Emmy-winning performance by Tommy Lee Jones) makes ME start to cry because after all, we can see how much Gus and Woodrow mean to each other. And I heartily recommend reading the books which start when they are young men to see how they, through the years spent together, really need each other. If you do, you'll also get to see Woodrow's meeting and relationship with Maggie and Newt (heart-breaking) and how they take in this scrawny half-starved young kid named Pea-Eye Parker. They just complement each other in so many ways, many really funny, that they are one of the all-time greatest pair of friends in literary history - Lonesome IS the only western to win the Pulitzer prize and deservedly so. Please, if you love these guys as much as we do (my wife has even read all 4 books twice!)
do yourself a favor, even you're not a reader, and read these books. If you never read any others in your life, you'll be so glad you did. Then, if you would, please come back here and tell me what you thought because it would be so nice to talk to someone else who has read them.








The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell. Don't go back to sleep.

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Wow. You sure saw her differently than I did. Manipulating a traumatized man to get her hooks into his baby son because her sons had died. A son she wanted, not daughters. Her daughters she was trying to get married off. To Call's kid of all things. Go figure.

As to using brains and not hormones, I wonder.....is wanting stability and money more important than love in marriage? Hmmmmm I guess to an Earth Mother, as you define her, it certainly is. but I never think of Earth Mothers as being so cold blooded.

Besides, I'm not sure anyone called her a bitch for being tough or hard working. But her attitude. Blaming Call unjustly for Gus's choices. At a time when Call was already grieving, she hatefully piles on more. Knowing he'd never stoop to respond in kind.

I kept wondering what Gus or Bob saw in her to be honest.

Still, Angelica certainly played the role to the hilt and the role was well written. Quite realistic period piece.

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I don't think she's justified since Gus is his own person and could make up his own mind. But I also think she was a very perceptive woman and had reason to have her feels about Call.

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Love and jealousy are two things in life that can't always be justified. They're not so easy to explain, not so "black and white." Clara loved Gus, but she was jealous of Call b/c he was ALWAYS with Gus whenever she wasn't. To her Call was, in a sense, "the other woman." Obviously, he wasn't a woman, but I think you can understand the idea of what I'm explaining. He was Gus's other partner. This happens in real life. Sometimes a person is jealous of another person who is as big a part of their lover's life as they are.

Also keep in mind that Clara resented Call b/c of his foolish pride, which kept him from telling Newt he was his father.

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I wonder if Clara would have respected or liked Call any more if he would have just given into her wishes and buried him in the family cemetery. Or perhaps if he had him buried under that tree on the pond where Gus and Clara hung out. I know, it would have taken away the thrill of the movie.

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I wonder if Clara would have respected or liked Call any more if he would have just given into her wishes and buried him in the family cemetery.






No, she wouldn't. Part of the reason Clara hates Call is that she can't boss him around like she does July and Dish. She can't boss Gus, either, but like someone said earlier, she takes that out on Call instead of Gus

Call did agree with Clara on that point and told Gus so. Call also told Clara exactly why Gus wanted to be buried in Texas but she was too busy venting her hate on Call to listen.

Call thought it was stupid...but:

1-It's what Gus wanted
2-Call does not break promises.

Clara was probably angry that she couldn't get her way at the end. Gus was doing what he wanted and there was nothing she could do about it. She also must know that there was no way to get Call to break his promise to Gus and that frustrated her as well. All she could do is rant and rave at Call.


Besides, I'm not sure anyone called her a bitch for being tough or hard working. But her attitude. Blaming Call unjustly for Gus's choices. At a time when Call was already grieving, she hatefully piles on more. Knowing he'd never stoop to respond in kind.


Wow. You sure saw her differently than I did. Manipulating a traumatized man to get her hooks into his baby son because her sons had died. A son she wanted, not daughters. Her daughters she was trying to get married off. To Call's kid of all things. Go figure.


Some very good and insightful comments in this thread. Clara's a complicated character, she's got virtues and faults. Some of the faults are bad ones and that's what makes the character disagreeable rather than the actress, imo

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She was wrong to blame Call. However, what she really hated was the relationship - yes, the special kind of love - that bound Call and Gus together. That bond was stronger than anything she ever had or could offer, and she knew it. She could hate the relationship, but she couldn't hate Gus. That left Call for the hating. She couldn't rationally express her hatred of the two men's brotherhood. She knew that Gus valued his time and his life with Call more than anything else in the world. And no, I am not promoting any gayness in the friendship, which existed on a plane totally transcendent to sex and gender - the same kind of story could equally have been about two women's unbreakable bond over the decades. The Gus-Call friendship was just one of those situations when two people find one another and simply, unconsciously, bond forever. That kind of bonding is usually impervious to any other relationship. And that is at Lonesome Dove's core: an incorruptible bond between two men who fought together, herded horses, then cattle, together, and who celebrated - and endured - life together. Until death did them part. Clara could never hope to compete against such a force of nature.

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She was wrong to blame Call. However, what she really hated was the relationship - yes, the special kind of love - that bound Call and Gus together. That bond was stronger than anything she ever had or could offer, and she knew it. She could hate the relationship, but she couldn't hate Gus. That left Call for the hating. She couldn't rationally express her hatred of the two men's brotherhood. She knew that Gus valued his time and his life with Call more than anything else in the world. And no, I am not promoting any gayness in the friendship, which existed on a plane totally transcendent to sex and gender - the same kind of story could equally have been about two women's unbreakable bond over the decades. The Gus-Call friendship was just one of those situations when two people find one another and simply, unconsciously, bond forever. That kind of bonding is usually impervious to any other relationship. And that is at Lonesome Dove's core: an incorruptible bond between two men who fought together, herded horses, then cattle, together, and who celebrated - and endured - life together. Until death did them part. Clara could never hope to compete against such a force of nature.


This is 100% the truth. Thank you.

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I would answer very simply, "Yes, she is."

Clara is a loving and strong woman who sees a man who took decades away from the man who was her friend and near-husband, and for no real reason than marking time and denying the world around them. Gus loved life. Call found life wearisome and hard.

But the nail in the coffin for Clara was when she realized (as a woman who had lost two beloved sons) that Call would not name or acknowledge little Newt, a gentle good boy who was plainly growing into an extraordinary man. The idea that Call would be unable to simply move past his own weakness (the admission that he had once loved a woman) was unthinkable to Clara, and honestly I agree with that, especially when we readers get to know what a wonderful sweet person Newt is.

However: the tragic thing is that Call is also an extraordinary person, a leader, a person capable of almost inhuman will and strength, and Clara can see that but not really acknowledge it. Clara doesn't see that Gus is the person who teases Call and humanizes him, and that their years of friendship are important to both men.

Clara also doesn't see how much pain Call is in -- I think part of her recognizes that he simply cannot deal with what she's saying, but it's so sad because she's whipping him with her words and can't recognize that. Call is not her enemy, but she won't recognize that even in spite of herself.

I love Clara -- she's one of my favorite characters -- but I totally understand her anger even as I totally love and understand poor Call too. It's a situation in which nobody wins because people can only act according to their nature.


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I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.

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I'm just seeing explanations for why Clara is acting illogically and unfairly toward Call.

I know it can be explained from her point of view...that doesn't make it justified. Her blaming Call for a choice that Gus made, is not justified.

~Sig~
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The question was: Is Clara justified in hating Call?

I'm confused about your response. I have posted, and others have as well, about Clara's very justifiable reasons for hating Call. You choose to dismiss them as illogical and unfair.

I don't agree.

The book also doesn't back you up, but offers pretty good defenses for both points of view. Clara hates Call because he (and his incredibly focused, narrow view of life and women) ensured that Gus would be tied to him versus to a wife throughout his life, and he was right. And worse, that he would ignore a wonderful, worthy son in Newt. (also true)

Please note: I love Call, just as I love Gus, and my heart breaks for him many times in "Lonesome Dove." But Clara was right to be angry with him, and her outburst was the product of over 15 years (probably 20-ish) of anger and justifiable outrage.

Call was Gus's other half. Call was more of a life partner than Clara could ever be, because he was the person Gus spent those decades with. Gus would leave his girls or wives to go off with Call, who not only didn't approve of it, he didn't understand the impulse at all (and found it shameful in himself to the point that he neglected honoring his own lovely sweet son).

Clara lost all her sons to illness in childhood. She met Newt and realized that there was the sweet, strong, good son she had hoped to raise. Then she finds that Call will not even acknowledge him as his own. Can anyone blame her for being angry?

This was the thing that sent her over the edge, and I totally understand it. She just doesn't have the view on Call that we do, that it was more about him hating himself than about him actually hating Newt.


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I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.

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The book also doesn't back you up, but offers pretty good defenses for both points of view. Clara hates Call because he (and his incredibly focused, narrow view of life and women) ensured that Gus would be tied to him versus to a wife throughout his life, and he was right.

Call was Gus's other half. Call was more of a life partner than Clara could ever be, because he was the person Gus spent those decades with. Gus would leave his girls or wives to go off with Call, who not only didn't approve of it, he didn't understand the impulse at all

As I said. None of that is Call's fault. Clara was angry at Call for a choice that GUS made. That's not justified in the slightest. It's misplaced anger.

What she is really mad about is that Gus didn't choose to give up his life to be with her. That is selfish of her since Gus would not have been happy. That is also stupid of her because she expected Gus to be something he isn't. She either fell in love with a man for who he was (someone who ironically could not be with her) or she fell in love with her vision of what she wanted Gus to be. That's on her....not Call.

So she chose to direct her anger and hate at Call since she couldn't be honest enough to hate Gus or herself. Call was the most honest of the three of them there. He was never anything other than what he is.

She can be angry at him for Newt. That's more justifiable. But that was not really her main reason for hating Call, is it? That was about her and Gus. The Newt thing is just something she piled on top of her unreasonable hatred in the first place.

~Sig~
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But there's a difference between your question: "Is Clara justified in hating Call?" and "Was it Call's fault?"

Of course none of what you bring up is Call's fault. But that wasn't your question. You didn't ask if Clara's hatred was Call's fault, you asked about Clara's feelings (not Call's) and if she had justification for them.

To me, she does.

She can be angry at him for Newt. That's more justifiable. But that was not really her main reason for hating Call, is it?


Oh, I absolutely do think it is what sends her over the edge. Absolutely. I think Clara never liked Call, but when she realized he had this terrific, sweet son that anyone would have been proud to call their own (yet would not give him his own name or acknowledgment), she shut down on Call completely and there was no forgiving him after that.

However, I do think your point about Clara wanting Gus to stay with her is of course absolutely true.

What I always think is interesting about the clash between Call and Clara is that it is a clash between the two people who loved Gus the most -- and who he himself loved most.

Call and Clara were never going to be best friends. But I think her emotional response to the realization that this man had not given Newt his name and recognition as his son are what took her over the edge.


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I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.

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But there's a difference between your question: "Is Clara justified in hating Call?" and "Was it Call's fault?"

Of course none of what you bring up is Call's fault. But that wasn't your question. You didn't ask if Clara's hatred was Call's fault, you asked about Clara's feelings (not Call's) and if she had justification for them.

To me, she does.

The question of justification depends upon Call being at fault. She cannot be justified in hating him if he has not done anything to justify it. He was not at fault...therefore her hatred of him is not justified.

The behavior which caused her to hate Call was Gus'. Call did nothing wrong. So her hatred was misplaced.
Oh, I absolutely do think it is what sends her over the edge. Absolutely. I think Clara never liked Call, but when she realized he had this terrific, sweet son that anyone would have been proud to call their own (yet would not give him his own name or acknowledgment), she shut down on Call completely and there was no forgiving him after that.

At that point, she already hated him and even told him as much.
"I loved Augustus McRae, but I wasn't willing to share him with you every time you decided to ride off on some adventure. I despised you for what you were then, Captain Call, and I despise you for what you're doing!"

It "sent her over the edge"...there should not have been an edge in the first place since she had no real reason to hate Call before that. If a person she liked did the same thing, there would have been no "edge".

So the whole thing is built on nothing but her misdirected anger. She couldn't hate Gus for choosing to be with Call instead of her, so she hated Call instead when he had in fact done nothing wrong.

This is one of the reasons I've never liked that character. She's so smugly self-righteous and openly anti-male. It reveals to me why Gus did not choose her. She seems very inflexible and would have tried to change Gus into something he wasn't...and made him unhappy.

That quote above is very instructive. She "loved" Gus...but couldn't share him with Call. Call of course has put up with Gus' quirks for decades...even those he strongly disagrees with. Call never tossed Gus aside because he had to share him with Gus' other interests....Clara did. Clara's issue is of her own making.

Clara is so self-centered that she can't even tolerate Call fulfilling his promise to his dying friend because she wants her way. It's what Gus wanted...but she "despises" Call instead. Again the misplaced anger.

Not a very nice person, this Clara.

~Sig~
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The behavior which caused her to hate Call was Gus'. Call did nothing wrong. So her hatred was misplaced.

Call himself, in book and film, KNOWS he deserves Clara's anger. It isn't about Clara being mean to Call. It's about her calling him out on his own failings where they affected his son (failings Gus saw all their lives, and that were in the book AND film).

Call's stubbornness, his in ability to allow himself weakness or tenderness, led to a woman he truly cared for (Maggie) dying of heartbreak. All because he was embarrassed at his own human weakness and embarrassment. He was so stubborn even after that, that he abandoned Newt to poverty and destitution and it took him YEARS to bring the boy Newt to his outfit (and Gus was primarily responsible for that too). Where Call then treated Newt like an overworked hired hand and showed him no tenderness and very little kindness. Gus was the one who was sweet and kind. Then Jake Spoon was nice to him briefly, and the boy held onto it forever as a memory.

In short, Call was a terrible father/foster father. He was a good friend to Gus. But he just couldn't seem to let anyone else in.

I mean, did Call embrace Newt, adopt him, and give him his name, show him love? Nope. He treated Newt -- a sweet, smart, lovable and polite young boy any father would be proud of -- like nothing. Like a brutally disposable hired hand who could be fired at any moment.

The fact that Call has these flaws doesn't make him evil or bad. I think he's a tragic figure and I loved the way Tommy Lee Jones played him, as someone who simply could not speak the feelings he had aloud. They make him complex and even sympathetic. But that doesn't mean Clara doesn't have the right to call him out on them.

It "sent her over the edge"...there should not have been an edge in the first place since she had no real reason to hate Call before that. If a person she liked did the same thing, there would have been no "edge".


While I absolutely feel terrible for Call when Clara rages at him, I do understand her motivation.

Clara had lost her own little boys. And when that happened, she was so devastated she sat in the ice house (freezer) with their little bodies and nearly died, just to be with them. She wrote to Gus repeatedly with no answer. She was utterly alone with a foolish husband, two tiny little girls, and (luckily) a sympathetic and gifted farmhand who became a good friend (Cholo).

She had already given up marriage with her true love (Gus) knowing he would never leave Call. She survived in a harsh place where death was everywhere. And she would have killed to have a son as good, sweet and worthy as Newt. But Call threw him away, treated him like trash, and year after year never even gave him the knowledge of his parenthood or his own name. Right under his own roof.

I understand that Call's reasons for this were all wrapped up in his own confusion and failings, but Clara doesn't, and that's believable to me. It's one of the reasons the book and miniseries are so great. Call, and even Gus, would still never quite understand what Clara had suffered or why she was so angry. Just like Call never understood Maggie, Newt's mother.

This is one of the reasons I've never liked that character. She's so smugly self-righteous and openly anti-male. It reveals to me why Gus did not choose her. She seems very inflexible and would have tried to change Gus into something he wasn't...and made him unhappy.


I agree that Clara comes off as smug and self-righteous with Call. She herself understands that she is being hateful and that her emotions are wasted there, she just can't help herself.

However, I don't agree that Clara is actually anti-male. She actually likes and appreciates men -- look at her relationships with Cholo, Gus, Jake, etc. And she did her best to love and support her husband even after realizing he was a fool. She is also gentle and kind with July Johnson, whom she takes him into her family and supports, along with his newborn son.

Also, you're incorrect on Gus not choosing Clara: Gus chose Clara. He begged her to stay with him. I think ultimately you didn't get the real story here: Gus and Jake both pursued Clara. Gus asked her to marry him. Clara turned Gus down repeatedly, because she saw that (1) Gus was a wanderer who would not be happy staying with her, (2) she knew marrying Gus would also in a sense mean tying herself to Call forever, and she knew that would not end well and she would most likely lose; and (3) she didn't want to make him unhappy. So she chose a boring ordinary man who would give her children and stability, and still loved Gus from afar (and in a very generous character note in book and miniseries), still wished to be friends with him, to hear from him, and to have his friendship for her children.

How is this selfish, mean, or unforgiving? Clara loved Gus, but also was generous enough to love and accept Lorie too, right away (Gus's new love), and without judgment of any kind. She also accepted Newt instantly, gave him a beautiful horse, and hoped he would marry one of her girls.

Call is seriously probably the ONE person Clara hates, and while I myself love him in spite of his flaws, I do understand her feelings. No matter how inadvertently, Call kept Gus from finding happiness (and ironically could never even admit happiness to himself too).

When it comes down to it, your only problem with Clara is that she hates Call. It doesn't seem to matter to you that, as a character, Clara has every reason to hate Call. She hates him for the past (Gus's loss of a wife, family, stability) and hates him for the present (his cruelty in withholding from his own beautiful son his acknowledgement or name), and the future (Call taking Gus away to be buried elsewhere). I understand why Call is fulfilling his promise to Gus, but I also understand Clara's sadness -- once again, Call is taking Gus away from her.

For me, characters like Call and Clara help make the book incredibly rich and complex, and the miniseries tried really hard to show that in a lovely way -- I love Call and understand his failings. But I love Clara too, and she was the one who took people in, rather than denying a good boy his name and birthright.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree at this point. Thanks for the discussion.

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I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.

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Paramitch,

Interesting point of view. But, I don't think Clara is justified in hating Call. As the poster above you noted, it's Call's relationship with Gus that Clara hated -- because Gus didn't allow her the same level of intimacy. None of that was Call's fault. It was jointly the fault of Gus and Clara - two souls who loved each other with a romance like no other -- but who each did understand that they could not live together with any true happiness. Gus' nature, and Clara's was just not cut out for it. But Gus and Call -- bonded with a brotherhood no woman could breach -- that relationship endured. It was that relationship that made Clara angry.

I think, deep in her rational mind, Clara understood this. But her grief and pain were so great, she couldn't help but lash out like a wounded animal, and Call was a handy target. She took her rage out on him because she could. Call accepted her tirade and went on about his business. Nothing Clara could say or do would make him break his promise to his dying friend. Yes, Call had much of Gus that Clara did not. But that was Gus' choice.

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Clara's a bitch. She wouldn't take Gus back but then took Lori away from him. If she couldn't/ didn't want him, then no one can. Typical slut behaviour.

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Clara's a bitch. She wouldn't take Gus back but then took Lori away from him. If she couldn't/ didn't want him, then no one can. Typical slut behaviour.


Wouldn't take Gus back? Clara was married to Bob. She was not available to take up a relationship with any other man. If she had, THEN she would be behaving like a slut. I think, deep down, she never stopped loving Gus, nor he her. But she also knew, as did Gus, that their relationship was not one that was likely to work out. She knew, years before she married Bob, that Gus was not one to really settle down. She also knew she herself needed someone who would settle down, who would stay by her, who would be easier to live with than Gus. She told him that every time she turned him down, she could see the relief he felt.

Love, even deep, abiding love, doesn't always make a good lifelong match.

Clara did not take Lorena away from Gus. She treated Lorena decently, which was more than Lorena expected; and she offered her a decent home and a chance to stop traveling with a cow herd -- a chance to get her life back together and begin to heal from the terrible things that had happened to her. And Lorena knew, I think, that although Gus was taking care of her and would not shirk that responsibility, he did not and would not ever love her in his soul, the way he loved Clara. In a sense, she was a burden to Gus; one he would not have shirked; but nonetheless, he had become her caretaker. Lorena was much better off staying with Clara. Offering Lorena a home was not in any way done to separate her from Gus; but to help Lorena herself, and Clara, too, because feminine companionship was hard to come by. Lorena and Clara would be friends, and it would be good for both of them. Clara might need to talk to another woman once in awhile; about how hard life was when your husband is an invalid and you've had to bury three sons. It had nothing to do with Clara's relationship with Gus.

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Clara's a bitch. She wouldn't take Gus back but then took Lori away from him. If she couldn't/ didn't want him, then no one can. Typical slut behaviour.


Clara's a "slut?" How? It's pretty much stated that the only man she ever sleeps with is the man she married. That's not my definition of a slut (even if I agreed with or liked slut-shaming, which I don't).

Also, Clara didn't "take Lori away from [Gus]" -- she did a very kind thing by offering Lorie the chance to stay in a safe, kind household instead of continuing on a dangerous trip that had already endangered her life (and was only going to get more dangerous as they went North). Gus was not only happy about it, he was (it's pretty clearly implied) relieved that Lorie stayed. And Clara's acceptance and kindness was a total surprise to Lorie, who couldn't believe she wasn't being judged for her former life as a prostitute.

Cheers.

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I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.

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