Why did Lorena dislike Dish? He was better looking than Pea, Lippy, Wanz and Jasper. Plus he worked all the time and would have taken her to San Antonio.
shareI think Lori was probably pretty fed up with young men (especially cowboys) trying to get in her pants. When Jake Spoon came along, an older more dignified man, she went wild for him. And she loved Gus just for his personality. She just didn't want to even give Dish a chance.
shareI'm guessing that Lorena didn't have much use for men at all, until she thought Jake would take her to San Francisco.
"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae
Lorena didn't dislike Dish; she didn't like him, either. She had distain for the cowboys who'd come in like a jackrabbit and then get all sappy about it. They were hung up on her looks, and she knew it and was scornful of it. Gus was different; he genuinely liked her. Jake was good-looking and was quite the player. And he promised to take her "away from all this."
shareShe was a young girl! Most of them treat all the nice good guys like Dish like they're nothing special! Like in today's modern America many of them by the time they're in their 30's can't understand why they are single parents with children and don't have a good man.
shareEr...I think you're letting your personal resentments color the way you look at these characters, sans. (Nothing personal.) Lorena was a WHORE. She knew these young guys were "in love" with her simply because there were no other women around and this was the only chance at intimacy they'd get. She also knew, from personal experience, that the minute they "got" her she would become their slave (or "my whore" as Jake once referred to her) and all that niceness and sappy love would dry up, and dry up fast. It didn't matter if the man was "good" or "nice" or hardworking. They just wanted to control her, and she knew it, and felt nothing but contempt for them. It has nothing to do with chicks loving "the bad boy," which is where I think you're going with your argument.
shareOkay, well, I think Dish was a genuinely good person. But then again, his only experience with women probably came from just a fling with a whore here and there. And D.B. Sweeney played nice, respectful, trusting types of guys in the movies before this (Gardens of Stone, Eight Men Out) which is maybe why I saw the Dish character that way.
In the sequels, Lorena had married Pea Eye and I think they were a reasonably good match. Pea Eye was illiterate and not that bright, but a good-hearted soul and Lorena had helped him to read, if I remember correctly.
I could easily see why Lorena would want Gus more than any other man. Not just because he was older, but his experience with life on the frontier, life in general, his positive outlook no matter what the situation, and that he was able to care well for her despite her PTSD from being with those nasty thugs.
I think Dish is a nice guy, too. A "normal" woman would probably sop him up with a biscuit. But Lorena's not normal, and she's pretty cynical when it comes to men. Gus is attractive, I get what you mean. I probably would have liked him too, though I don't really see Gus as a guy who's going to settle down, no matter how many Claras he comes across.
You liked the Lorena/Pea Eye match? I was shocked by it--talk about two characters that are completely different. I went with it, though, because I liked LD. Still, if she would have ended up with Dish I wouldn't have batted an eye. Or even Newt! But Pea Eye? Eyew!
I liked SoL too, but I'm sort of with the others when it comes to the prequels.
She was a young girl! Most of them treat all the nice good guys like Dish like they're nothing special! Like in today's modern America many of them by the time they're in their 30's can't understand why they are single parents with children and don't have a good man.
I kept wishing she'd hook up with Dish.
I think she went for Jake because he said he'd take her to San Francisco. She saw Dish as just another immature cowboy.
A middle-aged friend of mine once said, "there's a lot to be said for a man who worships the ground you walk on." I wish it didn't take us so long to figure that out!
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I'm paraphrasing from my memory of the book, here. But will give it a whirl.
Lorena doesn't like Dish because she was very much in love with Gus and was especially agonized over his death, thinking of him all the time. Dish to her is no substitute for what she felt for Gus, so his presence later on at Clara's is even more infuriating for her as she knows that Dish came to work there just to be near Lorena. He does so well at the ranch that Clara wants to promote him to foreman. This causes a dilemma for Lorena in that she loves her new life at Clara's, but with Dish being dug in there she has to see him everyday. For some reason she also feels that it is Dish's presence that reminds her not only of her old life, but of the rape and beatings she suffered.
With Jake, Lorena liked his wild bad boy ways. That he could be fun and that he might take her away to San Fransisco. She knew as well that she could never marry Gus even if he lived, as he loved Clara, but she still loved him none the less.
Now the ironic part is that through persistence Dish actually marries Lorena! She is even more mean to him when he proposes and more so after she accepts. But little by little she warms to him somewhat.
If anyone has better more specific memories from the book, please fill in the rest.
Now the ironic part is that through persistence Dish actually marries Lorena! She is even more mean to him when he proposes and more so after she accepts. But little by little she warms to him somewhat.
If anyone has better more specific memories from the book, please fill in the rest.
It wasn't that she disliked him. She was in love with Gus and just didn't appreciate the attention. She found out Gus loved her for more than just her body and probably assumed Dish was just like any other man - only wanting sex with her.
RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman 1967-2014... a tremendously great and talented actor.
Why did Lorena dislike Dish? He was better looking than Pea, Lippy, Wanz and Jasper. Plus he worked all the time and would have taken her to San Antonio.
This is one of those questions that's better answered by a bookreader.
One of the genius things about the book is that we meet these wonderful people but also see multiple points of view.
To us, Dish is a strong, brave, sweet young guy -- a real leader on the trail, and capable of great things. Clara later sees his worth and actually pleads his case to Lorena.
But all Lorena can see is just another cowboy who bought her when she was a whore (too scared then to even talk to her), and who did nothing to rescue her when she was in trouble (although Dish volunteered).
To Lorena, Dish is simply one of the many faceless men who (worst of all) seems to love her simply because she is beautiful and exists. And because he has decided to. He doesn't know her. He knows nothing about her. He cannot even bring himself to talk to her. When he does, he can barely manage stuff like "Good morning."
Gus eventually wins out because he doesn't just talk amusingly (which already put him ahead of the pack to the extent that Lorie offers to go with him to San Francisco), but because he is a capable and brave man. He doesn't say "I love you" to Lorie, he proves it.
So it makes sense to me that Lorena feels nothing but contempt for Dish, even though I feel for him. He is a very nice guy but his feelings arise from very little. It's interesting that, like Dish, many others are also in love with Lorie (including Newt) based on little more than seeing her.
I don't blame Lorena for wanting to be rid of all of them. They all claim to love her but want nothing more than to own a pretty blonde doll. Gus was different. He understood her as a person.
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I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.
Dish was a pretty low key and understated major character. I'm sure Lorena found him too ordinary, like the way Elmira felt about July Johnson.
And the actor playing Dish has pretty much stayed in the background his entire career, with the exception of The Cutting Edge. Started out as a C list actor starring with A and B listers in box office flops, but for the past 20 years pretty much reduced to a TV guest star actor.