were Johnson and Johnson in on it? or just dumb Feds?
so in the the sequel feds were in on it. Did they blow themselves up by accident here?
shareno. they were keystone cops. they move plot along with there retardness.
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MovieChat Forums > Die Hard (1988) Discussion > were Johnson and Johnson in on it? or ju...
Dumb Feds.
shareI guess they were stupid and believed what Gruber said. They couldn't have known he wanted to rob Naktomi's safe. Much less that them turning off the power would result in him getting what he wanted. But yeah. They just were made to be dumb just like the Chief of police Dwayne Robinson.
shareYou might think Dwayne Robinson is dumb, but think about it, if you were in his position what would you have done? I asked myself that question, and the answer is not that different from what he did.
I definitely would have sent a team into the building to have a look as well.
The feds were crazy though. That woman on the radio was also quite ridiculous, but maybe bureaucrats are just like that.
Agreed.
Of all the various (non-villainous) obstructive assholes in the film (including Thornberg, Ellis, the FBI, and even the SWAT team leader who proceeded in sending the cops into the building even after Robinson told him to pull them out), I think Dwayne Robinson was arguably the least objectionable.
Yes, he was an officious prick, especially when he still wanted to detain McClane over Ellis' death, after everything that had just happened, and he always seemed to be on Powell's case, but he still seemed to show a little bit more sense and caution than, say, the FBI.
In terms of the two idiotic extremes of policing I think his casual, let's not jump to any conclusions, approach, in contrast to the FBI and SWAT team, was the less dangerous and destructive.
Everyone hates on Dwayne Robinson (even Roger Ebert gave the film a middling review because he couldn't get over that character's 'stupidity'), but, to be fair, he was smarter than the FBI guys whose tactics he questioned, and he was quite quick to order the SWAT leader to pull the cops out when Hans and his team started firing on them and the RV (although the SWAT leader pretty much ignored him).
I'm not saying he was good at his job, but there were even bigger assholes (like the FBI guys) among the authorities.
I always think of it like a pyramid of intelligence with John at the top, then Hans and his crew, then the FBI, then the cops. Although, at times, the bottom 2 layers seemed to switch.
shareI always thought Hans was at the top, then John and Takagi, then the cops, then FBI.
shareWell, I picked John because he wins, but it's close. Takagi I didn't figure in cause he's not there very long. As for the FBI, yeah, they are kind of dumb. I guess I rated them ahead of the LAPD just because of their reputation, and because they seemed to have a plan as to how to deal with the terrorists (albeit, a bad one for this situation).
shareInitially, the FBI definitely comes across as much more competent and sure of what they're doing than the bumbling cops, but ultimately, their gung-ho approach turns out to be far more reckless and stupid, and thus they're punished for it, with their lives.
Dwayne Robinson and the cops (save for Al Powell) may have been useless, but at least they weren't as cocky and as reckless about losing "20/25% of the hostages, tops". They seemed to have a bit more regard for the sanctity of human life, even to the extent where Robinson was (stupidly) blaming McClane for what happened to Ellis.
And that's one of those many details that makes me love this film. Just when you think no one could be more foolish than a particular character, someone else comes along to screw things up even worse. And, like I say, it's more satisfying that it's the FBI that are the biggest screw-ups, because, unlike Dwayne Robinson, they really seemed like they knew what they were doing.
That's a good point, though the cops also did lose a few folks when they tried sending in
"The Carrrr."
Is that for definite?
I always think of the death tally for Die Hard, because it is a Christmas movie, with a happy ending, and I like to think that there weren't too many fatalities, besides the villains.
Besides the villians, we've definitely got 2 security guards, Takagi, Ellis (although I don't feel *too* bad about his loss), and the FBI guys (which, I'd say were between 6 to 8 individuals, including pilots, between two separate helicopters). So, that's about 12 'innocent' fatalities, on top of the dead terrorists.
I always figured that various cops had been seriously maimed, and those who werre in the RV were seriously burned, but wasn't there a chance the latter cops lived? Didn't McClane send the home-made bomb down the elevator shaft in order to save the cops in the RV?
I put Takagi up there with John because of the perception that he knew he would be killed anyway right there to cover up the theft (Hans put up a show for a reason), he would not even be allowed to go back the rest of hostages, because then they might wise up to the fact they are going to be killed soon as well.
I think that is why he refused to give up the password. I think that was the only chance he had to delay his death or even survive.
The fact he called wrong did not change that. I still think that was the best course of action. Most people would have panicked not thinking straight under that pressure.
Then again that is just my perception.