MovieChat Forums > Child's Play (1988) Discussion > Was it just a coincidence?

Was it just a coincidence?


Last night I came across a post over on the CP2 board that prompted me to wonder about something from the first movie. I'm just curious to see fans' thoughts on it.

Do you think it was just a coincidence that Charles Lee Ray originally transferred his soul into a Good Guy doll named Chucky, or was he somehow able to control the doll's child voice to make it say his name was Chucky? After reviewing Ray's police file, Mike tells Karen that his nickname was Chucky, so that tells us that he didn't adopt the Chucky identity after entering the doll simply because that was the doll's name.

On one hand, it would seem as if Ray's soul inside the doll was actually able to talk independently through both his own voice and the doll's child voice. But if so, how was he able to do it? The Good Guy dolls didn't have independently controlled voices of their own, that would be capable of saying just anything. Rather they contained a mechanism, which when activated, played back 1 of several standard pre-recorded lines. All of the normal Good Guy dolls shared the same voice and responded with the same sentences, with the only difference between them being the name recorded for each doll.

Whenever we hear Chucky's doll voice in this movie, I've always assumed that Ray's soul wasn't actually talking through the voice; he was just activating the mechanism to play 1 of the pre-recorded lines. And if that's the case, then it would seem that him ending up in a doll that shared his nickname would have just been a coincidence.

But then there is the scene in CP2 in which Chucky is posing as the doll Tommy and almost slips up when saying his name. He starts to say, "Hi, I'm Chucky" but after a split second of hesitation corrects it to "Tommy" just in time. That would suggest that Ray's soul was actually talking through the doll's voice, though again I don't know how that would be possible.

Anyway, I was just wondering what other fans think. Was Ray's soul ever actually talking through his dolls' voices or was he simply playing back recorded lines (making the Chucky thing just an amazing coincidence)?

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no. CHUCKY is short for CHARLES. his friends called him Chucky. and by friends this means Eddie and of course John. and in the later films Tiffany.
i thought that was made quite clear with what is provided in the film.

Charles Lee Ray inhabited the doll. he could make the doll say whatever he wanted in that voice at that time.it was his temporary body. he also made the doll's head spin around. so he can make the doll do things without he himself being completely animated and walking around.
the thing about the first film is that we see a transformation take place as the film progresses. because as Chucky finds out, the doll body is temporary. he has to pass his soul onto a human body or the doll body will slowly become human and he will be trapped within it forever. so thats where his hairline changes and so forth, he starts to feel pain and bleeds. the doll's cartoon voice is no longer heard again until the soul leaves the charred remains.

in Child's Play 2 and onward they ignore the physical transformation. but the same thing applies. the doll is a temporary holding place so while its still a doll made of plastic, the soul controls it. as the film progresses he of course bleeds and into the finale he is completely human. so again you never hear the voice of the doll during that period.





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I fully agree that it was made clear that Charles Lee Ray went by Chucky even before he died. As I noted before, the first indication we get of that is when Mike reviews his police file and tells Karen that Chucky was his nickname. And, yes, the other examples you noted also support this.

The part that I am having trouble understanding is this:
"Charles Lee Ray inhabited the doll. he could make the doll say whatever he wanted in that voice at that time." (referring to him talking in the childlike doll's voice)

But how would he be able to do that if the doll didn't actually have its own voice (outside of the 3 recorded lines made in the childlike voice) for him to use? If his soul had inhabited a person, it would have made sense. A person would have had the parts necessary (e.g., vocal cords) to produce a distinct voice capable of saying anything; Chucky's soul simply would have had to manipulate what would actually be said in that voice. But the Good Guy doll's voice wasn't capable of being manipulated into saying just anything because its only possible lines (in the childlike voice) had already been recorded. Sure, Chucky could say anything he wanted through his own voice (because his voice is treated as a part of his soul in these movies). But how could he change the pre-recorded lines (e.g., when he first introduces himself to Andy as Chucky).

You do make an interesting comparison between Chucky being able to control the doll's voice and control its movements early in the movie. But I'm not sure I see them in the same way. Unlike the limitations of the pre-recorded voice, it seems that the doll body has the necessary parts to allow for unlimited movement (which Chucky's soul then just has to manipulate to actually get the movements to occur). For example, the Good Guy dolls already contained mechanisms, which when activated, would cause them to turn their heads and blink their eyes, and even though they couldn't otherwise move independently, they also did have the necessary parts to allow for movement (e.g., legs for walking, hands for grasping objects). With these available parts, Chucky's sould could produce movement by either activating the pre-existing movement mechanisms or by specifically manipulating the doll's body parts. But because the doll's voice is pre-recorded and Chucky can't reproduce that distinctive voice, it seems like the options for what he would be capable of making the doll say in the childlike voice would be limited to just those pre-recorded standard lines.

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But how would he be able to do that if the doll didn't actually have its own voice (outside of the 3 recorded lines made in the childlike voice) for him to use? If his soul had inhabited a person, it would have made sense. A person would have had the parts necessary (e.g., vocal cords) to produce a distinct voice capable of saying anything; Chucky's soul simply would have had to manipulate what would actually be said in that voice. But the Good Guy doll's voice wasn't capable of being manipulated into saying just anything because its only possible lines (in the childlike voice) had already been recorded. Sure, Chucky could say anything he wanted through his own voice (because his voice is treated as a part of his soul in these movies). But how could he change the pre-recorded lines (e.g., when he first introduces himself to Andy as Chucky).



you seem to assume that you know how the voodoo actually works. he inhabited the doll and all its mechanisms. whats to say he was not able to manipulate the voice box? or that the voice he was using to talk to Andy was not the doll's voice??


You do make an interesting comparison between Chucky being able to control the doll's voice and control its movements early in the movie. But I'm not sure I see them in the same way. Unlike the limitations of the pre-recorded voice, it seems that the doll body has the necessary parts to allow for unlimited movement (which Chucky's soul then just has to manipulate to actually get the movements to occur). For example, the Good Guy dolls already contained mechanisms, which when activated, would cause them to turn their heads and blink their eyes, and even though they couldn't otherwise move independently, they also did have the necessary parts to allow for movement (e.g., legs for walking, hands for grasping objects). With these available parts, Chucky's sould could produce movement by either activating the pre-existing movement mechanisms or by specifically manipulating the doll's body parts. But because the doll's voice is pre-recorded and Chucky can't reproduce that distinctive voice, it seems like the options for what he would be capable of making the doll say in the childlike voice would be limited to just those pre-recorded standard lines.


thats just nitpicking then. because the doll itself can turn its head sure. can move its eyes yes. but it cant walk. its arms dont move.its fingers dont move. yet Chucky can make the doll get up and walk,run. he can make the arms move to pick up a hammer, knife,etc. the doll is plastic. there are no mechanics in the fingers,arms,& legs.so how is that any different than having a voice box programmed with only 3 or 4 lines be any limitation for him if movement isnt? not to mention that all those mechanisms in the face are working without batteries. in that specific scene with Karen dropping him under the couch, when she picks him up his head rotates and the voice says "HI IM CHUCKY WANNA PLAY!!" its much louder and slightly more aggressive than what the voice box is programmed to sound like. for me that was enough to tell me that yes he can manipulate that voice. and that its probably so that he is talking in that same voice to Andy early on in the film. when Andy is held in custody with Chucky he pleads for Chucky to say something. in the doll voice he says the usual lines. Andy is furious and punches him. that can go either way with what Andy has been hearing all this time is the doll voice or actually Chucky's real voice. i always interpreted it as he has been hearing the doll's voice telling him things about Andy's father and so forth. moreso because the big reveal with Chucky actually becoming fully animated onscreen shows his true emotion and voice.
like i said in the previous post, we see Chucky transforming. so he is making facial expressions that the doll's face certainly cannot make. as the film progresses he is slowly becoming human, so the doll's limitations are no longer valid by that point.

in Child's Play 2 like you said he is there controlling the doll's voice and saying he is Tommy. its brief but it again shows that he can make the doll body do whatever he wants it to do.

in Child's Play 3 we hardly see the good guy doll speak cause its Brad Dourif doing the dialogue in almost every instance.

by Bride of Chucky the voice actor Edan Gross was too old to record any new lines for the doll. so they went and used a different voice actor for the Good Guy lines. but same deal there. Chucky makes the doll say 'im Chucky and i wouldnt talk if i were you'.

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OK, I can accept that logic. Your posts brought up some good examples of things that happened in the movies (some of which I'd forgotten, such as the statement in the doll's voice in Bride of Chucky) and how you interpreted them, which is exactly what I was hoping for with this question.

And as I think more on it, it seems that you make a valid point about comparing the movements and the voice of the doll. If Chucky can move the doll's arms and legs (despite them having no mechanical ability to move) early in the first movie (which is something I certainly seem to have willingly accepted), then I suppose he can also manipulate the doll's voice recording as well.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your reasoning.

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It's kind of a strange thing to think about.

On the one hand, he transfers his soul, and I guess his voice to the doll body. Ok, it's voodoo, so I'll accept that's how this brand of voodoo works.

Then, once in the body, he seems limited by the anatomy of the doll body when he's pretending to be the doll, but not when he is Chucky.

For example, when anyone picks up the Chucky doll up by the arm and carries him, it's clear there's no solid structure in the arm, just stuffing. So it doesn't seem like its possible for Chucky to be able to use those limbs. Yet as soon as he is in killer Chucky mode he seems to have functional muscles, joints, bones, etc. in those arms.

It's as if he can switch between regular good guy doll body into killer Chucky body at will. To me this seems stupid, but it would also explain the voice. When he is just being a doll he can utilize the doll's voice programming, when he is killer Chucky he can use his own voice.

Point is, the movies are very inconsistent on his physical capabilities and anatomical build. One second he's cotton stuffing with vacant eyes, next he's got human life-like eyes and muscles for stabbing.

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right. i just find it to be nitpicking if you can accept one thing but not the other. the film is not rooted in realism. hence the reason for the concept of voodoo magic being thrown in the mix instead of the original exchange of blood concept. with the voodoo itself it sets up for why there are rules and limitations to Chucky's situation.

also you gotta take into account that Charles Lee Ray dealt in voodoo rituals in his killings. so the whole voice and switching between toy to animated could be a trick he learned from knowing voodoo. the chant itself was just to transfer his soul from one space to the other. so a lot of the illogical things can simply be placed back on being voodoo magic. its what made Chucky such a tough and dangerous murderer to catch, he was interesting in that sense.

my gripes have always been with the sequels. which dont really help with exposition cause i guess they are goofs by the creators. in Child's Play 2 i can spot a few. like why is the eyeball in Chucky's charred head in the wrong socket? why is it when they are reassemling him that they just pop the head into the socket? theres no wiring that goes from the battery compartment in the back of the chest into the head to move the eyes,mouth,etc.
why is it that no one in the lab seems to freak out that the charred head has actual teeth and a tongue?

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[deleted]

yep thats one of the things that is just so in your face yet its completely ignored by the characters.

if i was one of the technicians and designed dolls that look like this http://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/1875_4_large.jpg...i for certain would not miss the fact that im seeing actual human teeth and a tongue..not to mention a jaw with mobility or a human heart thats been blown apart?
and when reassemling the doll they just pop the head right on. its an articulated head with batteries in the body, you need some kind of wiring to transfer that. so not sure how the hell these guys are doing it step by step and not noticing that they got the battery compartment but that it wont do a damn thing haha.

but well then again the whole scene doesnt make sense. its been 2 years since the events of the first film and PlayPals Inc. is trying to recover from the bad PR and the doll is reconstructed for analysis. but whats to look for with a bunch of crispy parts after that long.why rebuild the doll?!
if it was tampered with...you couldnt tell either way what the issue was if you rebulid it from scratch. cause they are literally replacing everything.
i understand getting the remains and disposing of it. its pre-internet , what kind of bad PR nightmare could they have?one child says 'the doll tried to kill me' and the world throws away the world most popular doll in sales?! the mom is labeled as insane and Andy becomes an orphan. so nothing really came from it except bad press youd only see in a tabloid magazine, since it cant be proven the doll did such things.if anything the public would think that the mom was disturbed and the boy acted out by torching his doll.

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And that's why you can't take these films too seriously. Otherwise it kind of ruins the fun. How about for instance whenever Chucky's alive, his facial features look more like actual skin and foam latex where as when he's posing as a doll his face looks like botox. I guess Don couldn't think of a better reason to make an excuse as to why to bring Chucky back and just went with that. It's flipping silly, I'll admit but CP2 is a good sequel so I can ignore it.

It's no silly than how they bring Jason back in Friday 13th part 6 or all the many times for Freddy. Fact is if these guys make money and people want to see them, bet your butt they'll come up with anyway to bring these guys back from the dead.

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well "seriousness" goes in various degrees. because i can go along just fine with the voodoo chant and all that goes with that because thats the premise that i have to give in to in order to follow along with the film.

Chucky's face is just part of the limitations of animatronics.so there will always be that difference when they switch from the animatronic puppet to the plastic doll. to gripe about that is just nitpicking. as opposed to going with logic and realism concerning the plot.

it wouldn't have been silly if the idea was properly executed. i mean i get much more satisfaction from the way the novelization goes about with the exposition of the opening sequence.

i wouldnt even bother to compare this series to Friday the 13th. that series jumped a sea world of sharks very early on. each installment in that franchise is drastically different.

Freddy is a different matter altogether because he is in your nightmares. so you can give that series so much more slack because in the dreamworld there are no limitations.

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Fair enough. I actually own the novelization of Child's Play 2 and 3. I will agree that they explained things alot better in the book. I also liked how they brought him to life in the novelization of 3. Seems more plausible.

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I know this is an old thread, so you may not see this. But I figured it was worth a try.

Your comments about the novelizations (particularly the third one) caught my attention. I've never read them and was curious how Chucky was brought back in either of them (if they differed much from the CP2 and CP3 movies). Thanks.

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[deleted]

You know what i think is really funny? Well its pretty easy.. you are trying to find logic in a psycho murderer that transfered his self into the body of a doll through voodoo magic... Why damnit WHY :p

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Well, in later movies Chucky says phrases in the doll's voice that Good Guys aren't programmed to say.

"Hi, I'm Chucky. And I wouldn't talk if I were you."

"Life is short!"

Plus I think Chucky talked to Andy in his Good Guy voice when he was revealing his secrets.

All New Season:
http://www.fictionpress.com/s/3063383/1/Omega-Guardians-Season-2

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"Well, in later movies Chucky says phrases in the doll's voice that Good Guys aren't programmed to say. "

No one has disputed that. (Though I'd like to keep the discussion of a movie, actually about _A_ movie - not the 'sequels', which are usually separate, different movies, and can 'change the rules' of the first one, and so on - for a horrible example of this, see "The Terminator" and "T2:Judgment Day", or "The Matrix" and "Re-something", and "Re-whatsitsname". But that fact is established by this movie alone - he couldn't say "Chucky", without changing the voice, which should either be explained satisfactorily, or impossible, or at least so much effort for so little return for Chucky, that there's no way he would do it)

Except the "programming" part, because they are not PROGRAMMED (there is no computer in them, just a simple voice box that plays recordings). They are only able to play a few pre-recorded sounds/samples, and that's all. There is no computer, no speech synth, no vocal chords, nothing that would know what the voice should be like - just a simple playback. You can't alter such a 'voice' to your liking just like that. You'd have to know exactly how the speaker's vocal chords and mouth work to form those sounds, or you'd have to have a huge library of different phoneme-samples recorded by that same individual - and even then, it would sound mechanical, and not natural, without a -huge- amount of trouble, trial and error, and tedious effort.

The question is; HOW does it work, and WHY would Chucky go through all that trouble, when we know him to be impatient and impulsive?

Just how much TEDIOUS WORK would it require for _ANYONE_ to actually modify an existing tape/voice box recording to a believable and plausible utterance by an already existing stranger's voice..?

I bet you couldn't do it if I gave you a computer, good sample editor with a bunch of effects, and three weeks. Take someone's voice (three short sentences), and then produce all kinds of other sentences that sound -exactly- like that voice - so much, that it can't be separated from the original recordings by human ear.

How long would it take, how much research, tedious work and painstaking effort would it require? I'd say it's not plausible that Chucky would go through all that even if he did have modern computers and sample editors.

But he has no such things! He has a voice box that has a few pre-made recordings, no vocal chords at his disposal WHATSOEVER, and no computers, synths, samplers, effects or any musical equipment to help him.

So how does he do this? Some kind of astral-ether vocal-chord-modeling work, based on trial and error? Does he use some kind of super-consciousness á la Nikola Tesla, where he can build things in his mind, and then .. uh.. hmm.. then what? How exactly can be produce voice anyway, when there are no vocal chords? If souls could speak directly without vocal chords, vocal chords wouldn't exist. Sound always needs a method of producing it in this world. If he used telepathy, projecting his voice to the other humans directly, without the sound having to be created to travel through the air, it could be accepted of course.

But to actually being able to create plausible, believable sound waves - how exactly does it work? Even if you explain it by "magic" or "voodoo", even they must work SOMEhow, and they must have some way of utilizing the laws of physics, and thus conform to them (even if we accept, like I do, that the laws of physics are actually different than what is taught in Terran schools).

It's just lazy writing to make things happen, and then explain it by "oh, well, it's magic". It's basically a non-explanation, avoidance at its finest. It's like.. "Don't look at the man behind the curtain"-type of thing. We are supposed to follow the superficial show, and not see the emptiness behind it.

It has been said that Gandhi and his friends formed a replica of a human mouth and vocal chords in the astral plane, and thus were able to talk through 'instrumental transcommunication' (or whatever it's called these days). I don't know if this is true, but if it is, it's quite a feat.

Have you ever seen robot-makers trying to make robots speak without speech synth or recordings? They have actually built 'vocal cords', that can alter their shape, while air is pushed through them, and so on. They sound TERRIBLE and _VERY_ artificial!

It's not so easy to produce an accurate voice of some human being, without vocal cords - especially, if you are trapped inside a doll and have no computer equipment. Surely there must be limits to even voodoo, and at the samee time, there must be a "diminishing returns" in effect for such a project. In other words, it wouldn't be worth Chucky's time and it would be uncharacteristic of him to take on such an endeavour.

If the doll had some kind of speech synth, or vocal chords, and actually FORMED the speech on-the-fly, there would be no problem. It's much easier to make things move simply by applying energy - that can be explained (though even that would really be quite a feat without muscles - there is a reason why physical plane beings usually have muscles - otherwise, it'd require way too much energy to move).

But Chucky actually going through the incredible effort of not only forming vocal chords, lips, tongue and mouth in a higher plane, and then blowing energy through all that, and making sure the resulting waves are lowered to the physical plane and become sound, just doesn't make any sense, knowing his impatient character.

It's like a bank robber in need of quick cash for a drug fix, decides to first build a fast electric car in his carage, before committing his crime. It just doesn't happen.

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[deleted]

You know what i think is really funny? Well its pretty easy.. you are trying to find logic in a psycho murderer that transfered his self into the body of a doll through voodoo magic... Why damnit WHY :p

I wondered the same. It's a fantasy horror movie and people try to find logic xD

----
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

But then there is the scene in CP2 in which Chucky is posing as the doll Tommy and almost slips up when saying his name. He starts to say, "Hi, I'm Chucky" but after a split second of hesitation corrects it to "Tommy" just in time. That would suggest that Ray's soul was actually talking through the doll's voice, though again I don't know how that would be possible.


I think this is your answer here. This proves that he can make the dolls talk in the tone of the recorded voice and say words other than what was programmed at the factory. Otherwise he never would have been able to have it say Tommy.

I think its a safe bet that he did the same in the first one and specifically chose to have it say Chucky there.

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