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What R The Differences Between the Klan and the Nazi Party?

posted 14 years ago by Wierd_1
4 replies | jump to latest

Hello Folks:

Yeah, I know; I am asking a question that is unsettling to many people. I know that right many of you will be angry at me for even bothering to discuss this kind of stuff at almost the beginning of the year 2011. Maybe then, I should have waited until at least May or June of this year to ask this. (Laugh.) However, this has been a burning issue with me for some time, and I have decided to get it off my chest before I forget about it or just simply go crazy about it. It's just that I still hear a lot about the Ku Klux Klan and the neo-Nazis in the news where I live (Richmond, Virginia USA) and on the Internet. Even as we go on forward into this New Milennium/Decade/Year, there are still those who want to turn the clock back (between the 1600s and the 1960s to be more specific) and bring back the politics of racial antagonism. I am hearing that during these modern times, neo-Nazi skinheads are becoming more numerous than those old school KKK rednecks. However, they all still speak virtually the same language - that is, policies and rhetoric against Blacks (and sometimes other people of color) and Jews. Now of course, I also do some side research about many other different types of terrorist/extremist groups too, such as Islamic Jihad groups (Public Enemy Number One, the people that the USA and many other Western nations are currently at WAR with), militant environmentalists/animal rights advocates, (the kind of people who wanted Michael Vick to be executed) and radical communists/anarchists. I even have some curiosity about the Black Panther Party and the Nation of Islam. I also read a lot on organized crime syndicates, such as the Russian, Italian, Japanese and Mexican Mafias, outlaw motorcycle gangs (such as the Outlaws here in Virginia), South American drug cartels and even various urban street gangs. I have a preoccupation with just about everything on the fringe and in obscurity, even with those underground Satanic cults (such as the Charles Manson Family and the people that the "Son of Sam" may have been involved with when he was on his killing spree), suicidal congregations (think Jim Jones and Heaven's Gate) and polygamist sects (like the kind of people that followed David Koresh and them other folks over in Waco, Texas USA). After all, diversity does have its privileges, am I correct? Right now though, I have some curious questions regarding the most vocal and active elements of extremist White Nationalism.

For one thing, I found many contradictions in regard to both the Ku Klux Klan and the Nazi Party. The Klan, for example, calls itself a group for Christian Whites, but burns Christian crosses. Throughout the last century, Klan members have bombed, burned and/or desecrated Black CHRISTIAN churches, as well as murdered Blacks and other "outsiders", all in the name of God. Also, many Klan members are given SATANIC cult-like titles, such as dragons, cyclops and wizards even though they proclaim themselves to be preservationists for "White Christianity" (I always thought that a Christian was a Christian, no matter what color.) and "traditional American morals and values". As for the Nazi Party, I learned that the original members (the World War II German enclave that included Adolf Hitler) had Satanic tendencies on the side, while they demonized Communists and Jews and made them their archenemies. In fact, I further learned that the swastika symbol itself had Satanic origins; I believed that it was originally a MULTICULTURAL sign that represented Man's rebellion against Nature. Furthermore, Hitler favored the rights and privileges of four-legged animals over those of Human Jews, (which kind of puts him in league with the animal rights activists as well), like the way the early American slavemasters and post-Civil War KKK favored the rights and privileges of four-legged animals over those of Black Humans. Also, let's us not forgot that during World War II, the USA was completely at odds against both Japan and Germany, despite the fact that so many Anglo-Saxon Americans still had a very low opinion of African Americans and Hebrew Americans, much like the way Nazi Germany deemed Jews and other non-Aryans as "unfit to live". In fact, a lot of captured German military servicemen and even some Germans (many of whom still supported Hitler) who immigrated to America had more rights than Black American military servicemen, even though they were fighting Germany, the same enemy that many White American military servicemen were fighting. As a frame of reference, I encourage you all to watch the TUSKEGEE AIRMEN (1995), MIRACLE AT ST. ANNA (2008) and HART'S WAR (2002), if you have not already done so, and you'll find out what I mean. I recently learned that even some American WWII veterans who helped fight against Germany eventually "switched" sides sort of (as in ideology, not necessarily in nationality) and became neo-Nazis themselves, such as in the cases with George Lincoln Rockwell and James Wenneker von Brunn. (Look these guys up on Google.) On top of that, some of White American GIs of WWII were already Klan members/Nazis themselves before/during the time they actually battled the German GIs during WWII. As for the case with African Americans around the times of Slavery, the War Between the States and Reconstruction, there were many Anglo-Saxon Americans in the North (Union) - such as politicians, military servicemen, clergy leaders and other "common folk" - who had unfavorable opinions of Blacks, just like their Brothers in the South (Confederacy) had. (Watch the movie GLORY, starring Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington, if you have not already.) In fact, there is a book that I believe that one can still order from EBONY magazine that has details of how President Abraham Lincoln himself regarded Blacks as inferior, and even advocated their repatriation back to Africa. (Is this book still available? How can I order it?) Also I encourage anyone to watch movies on more recent times, such as IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT (1967), MISSISSIPPI BURNING (1988), ROSEWOOD (1997) and MS. EVERS' BOYS (1997). Does anyone know of any more movies that focus on the strife between Whites and Blacks in the South? (I saw a real old one, it was about a young Black fellow who had ended up testifying against a Black man, who was wearing a red shirt in the courtroom and who was seen killing an elderly White man. This young fellow was in a match with several other Blacks, with an older White guy saying, "I'll take the Black boy with the big behind!" Does anyone remember what movie I am talking about?)

So then, what is the difference between TODAY'S Ku Klux Klan and TODAY'S Nazi Party? Many neo-Nazis, such as WAR (White Aryan Resistance) leader - and former Klan member - Tom Metzger have publicly said that the Klan has "lost its touch". Others argue that the Klan has higher standards than the NP (Nazi Party); a White man convicted of drug dealing and/or any other felony (including beating, killing and/or raping his own girlfriend or wife) has a better chance of being a member of the NP than the KKK. Klan members have recently blasted neo-Nazi skinheads for being excessively ultra-violent, really wild and out of control. There are also RUMORS saying that there is more sexual permissiveness within the ranks of the NP as opposed to the KKK - as long as all of the participants in any said sexual liasons/affairs are heterosexual Whites. (It has been said that during World War II, homosexuals had significant rankings within Adolf Hitler's Nazi Party, and that "the late great" Hitler himself had a Jewish grandparent(s), and was also secretly gay. Is all of this true? After all, I do not recall even seeing Hitler himself having any blonde hair on his head after seeing various photographs of him, either. I heard that there is even a BOOK about this. What is the title of this book, who wrote it and where can I find it?) Also, even the Reverend John Hagee ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee ) has publicly denounced the Klan as being an "antithesis and anethema" to Christianity several years ago, and many of us who are familiar with him know how extreme he can be. Despite these minor differences, I now refer to both the KKK and the NP as one group - the Nazi Klan. So then tell me, what are some other ideological differences between the KKK and the NP? Also, some of you may recall an incident back in the early to mid 1990s, where there was a conspiracy of sorts involving several young American modern-day Hitler Youths, who were plotting to assassinate notable and prominent Black leaders and entertainers, such as Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan, Reverend Jesse Jackson, Charles Ridenhour - better known as Chuck D (leader of the rap group Public Enemy) and then-late night talk show host Arsenio Hall. Their overall aim was to jump start a "White Revolution", or racial holy war, and get more "young, healthy and agile" Whites to join their racist cause here in America to fight any Blacks who wanted to avenge their fallen icons. What is the status of the White supremacists who were involved in this plot then? Are they still in prison? I was reminded of them when, back in 2008, I heard that the other two neo-Nazi skinheads (Paul Schlesselman and Daniel Cowart) got busted when they were plotting to assassinate President Barack Obama (when he was a just a presidential candidate) and dozens of other Blacks. I would like to know the status of all of these racists who were involved in all of those conspiracies.

Also, some of my research tells me that there is some beef between members of the AB (Aryan Brotherhood) and members of the Nazi Low Riders, both groups which are almost entirely made up of convicted White male inmates. Is this true? What exactly is this beef about, a drive for each group to have more members than the other, perhaps? Anyone is welcome to answer any of my questions - including any NP members and KKK members. (Given the fact that I have probably just opened up a new can of worms and/or rattled a hornet's nest, I know that many of you who are reading this will think that it's funny how I almost start the new year/decade asking hot button questions like this, isn't it?)

Note to EACH respondent: Please refrain from using any derogatory terminology, any obscenities, any language involving bomb/death threats and/or plots to overthrow any governments. I would appreciate it very much. If this conversation otherwise gets too much out of hand, I will most likely delete this ENTIRE thread myself. I prefer an honest but intelligent dialogue, please. Thank you very much.

WebJock

[–] dcavalli 14 years ago

For the most part, you answered your own question.

As you may know, the KKK got its start after the Civil War during Reconstruction. Its purpose was to keep the now-freed blacks in their place through terror. The KKK also targeted so-called "carpet-baggers," white Northerns who came to the south to make money. They also hated Jews and Catholics, who were coming over from Europe as immigrants. The Catholic Church represented something alien to the KKK, which wrapped itself in extreme American nationalism. Also, the KKK was Christian to the extent it adopted the Protestant identities of their members. Since Protestants were against the Church, it was natural that the KKK also became anti-Catholic. Though Christian in name, the KKK selectively interpreted the Bible. Didn't it ignore "Thou shall not kill" and "Love thy neighbor," etc.? Being a practicing Catholic myself, I acknowledge that the Church has always had its problems with corruption, abuse, and persecution. But it never excluded Asians, Africans, Indians, etc. from becoming members of the Church and being baptized. In school, I remember being told that some southern ministers believed that blacks didn't have souls and thus couldn't be baptized, ergo it was okay to enslave them. (There were at least three African popes, although they most likely from North Africa and probably Arab-looking.)

The Klan grew in its influence. Being part of the KKK was almost like being a member of the Elks, Kiwanis, etc. Even Harry Truman became a member, though he quickly left it. As president, he desegregated the military, recognized the State of Israel, and condemned anti-Catholic sentiment.)

I think lots of people who may have agreed with the KKK's goals or joined for the social aspect of it left it after it got a bad reputation through lynchings and bombings. (Not all racists and bigots are of the violent type. See Elia Kazan's "Gentleman's Agreement" [1948) with Gregory Peck, who investigates anti-Semitic views among decent, country-club people who would "never send a dime to Gerald L.K. Smith" [a prominent bigot at the time] or support Theodore Bilbo, the white supremacist governor and U.S. Senator from Mississippi.)

The Nazi Party (National Socialists) was organized in Germany after World War I. The German monarchy/empire was dissolved, and the Weimar Republic took its place. It argued that the German people were stabbed in the back by Communists, Jews, and other groups. During the 1920s, it often polled in low single digits. In 1924, Hitler was jailed for attempting to overthrow the government. He was then let out. Though baptized Catholic, he ceased to practice the faith, i.e. attending Mass, receiving Communion, going to Confession, etc.

If you look at the original Nazi platform, the Nazis called for the abolition of private property. This was later toned down. They were anti-Catholic since the Church was something foreign. In his diary, Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi minister of propaganda, wrote that Hitler was religious but "anti-Christian" because Christianity was "a branch of the Jewish race." The Nazis were pagan but were willing to tolerate what they called "positive Christianity," a watered-down version of the faith that supported their aims. It was the Great Depression when the Nazis began to grow in influence. Hitler was a very persuasive speaker. Once he got power, he gradually abolished the Weimar constitution and made himself dictator.

There is an interesting scene in "Betrayed" where Gary Simmons (Tom Berenger) shuns the neo-Nazi in the Brownshirt uniform. Simmons recalls that his father fought against the Nazis during WWII. I guess Simmons saw the neo-Nazis as a "foreign" and "non/anti-American" force.

I don't know if there is any real-life tension between American neo-Nazis and KKK members today over ideology. Sometimes, you'll make alliances with people you make not like or disagree with because you're short on numbers.

I believe the influence of both today is exaggerated. Whenever they show up to hold a march, thousands of people come out to counter-protest, and the police has to protect the bigots from getting killed. Most of these hate groups are no doubt riddled with government informants and undercover agents. That said, bigotry does continue to exist, and given human nature, I don't see it going away.

[–] Wierd_1 14 years ago

Thank you, dcavalli, for letting me know about the differences between the KKK and the Nazi Party. The reason why I asked is simply because the doctrines of these two major extremist groups sound virtually identical. I just found it hypocritical that even though that America went to war against fascist Germany during World War II, it still had a policy of racism itself against many of its own citizens. Also, many American White mobs who rioted and attacked Black neighborhoods and homes between the 1870s and 1960s who as racist as I don't know what, but did not want any part of the actual KKK (?). I also find it odd that many of those who perform Satanic rituals and practices profess to be religious - i. e. Christian. I saw that movie BETRAYED (198?), by the way, a while ago, and I thought that that man was being a pure hypocrite for participating in Klan activites on the one hand, but yet denouncing Nazis on the other hand - even though his grandfather or father fought against them in World War II. I just wished that more people would see the faultiness in that kind of logic. As far as Blacks are concerned, I have heard so many Blacks say that White folks are evil, blah, blah, blah, but yet, at the same time, they would denounce the NOI (Nation of Islam) as too radical. (As for Black gangsters and Black thugs, I feel that some of them should at least attempt to apply for a position in the Klan (or rather do some OUTSOURCE work for the Klan), given the fact that they generally make a living off killing and keeping their own People down in many urban neighborhoods. However, I know that that most likely will not happen.) I think that it's really hard to have it both ways, regardless of what group one is a part of. Lately, though, I hear more and more of Klanfolk and Nazifolk coming together, just like I hear more the Black Panthers and the NOI occasionally coming together. Anyway, thank you for clarifying some information and even enlightening me about some of these groups. I actually learned quite a bit from you. (Sorry about this late response; I had so many other things that I had to do!)

[–] jefgg 10 years ago

"Betrayed" was loosely based on the terrorist activities of white supremacist Robert Mathews and his group The Order.

[–] shifty15-967-563565 8 years ago

Poop. Poop smells.