I'm reading the recommendations section, and some people actually think that Kevin Bacon was actually evil or something. He's just trying to show Alan that he could do things on his own, and he doesn't need to hold his hand every step of the way. Anyone who thinks he was evil or whatever must be the most dependent people i've ever heard.
shareare you serious? i mean vic was psycho he left a young boy on the side of the mountain when he was scared to death...anyone in there right mind wouldnt do that and he also threatend the boy... i think next tiem you watch this movie you should pay more attention or open your eyes
shareif you're being sarcastic, very funny
if not, i think next time you're stuck on the side of a mountain you should try to save yourself before whinning that you're scard and helpless.
I think it's pretty obvious that the screenwriters were making him an ambiguous sort of character. Vic is confident with his survival skills but sucks at communicating and can't adapt to the situation when he's challenged personally. He thinks he's doing the right thing, but pushes too hard because he's too certain that he's correct.
Likewise, Sean Astin starts out annoying, defiant, and unable to deal with anything. Though not in the way intended, the trip eventually does help build his confidence and abilities. Note that the leadership and will he developed resisting Vic is basically what allows him to save his life at the end. I thought the clashe of personalities was the supposed to be the main conflict of the film - I'm sure the screenwriters maybe even intended some grander metaphor about man not being able to survive in nature without learning adaptability or something - but either way I'm not sure how anybody could make Vic out to be either a hero or villain.
[deleted]
Alan was perfectly fine hanging from the rocks. I'm sure it would be scary for a kid, or anyone, but he's safely strapped in with climbing gear.
Additionally, it's clear that Vic watches out for him even when it seems like he's being a 'sadist'. Just like the time that Alan had to go back to the bridge to get the tent support & Vic followed to keep an eye on him.
Vic's character is a somewhat lost 20-something, like somebody else said, and in the script he's learning and growing like the other characters as well, but I agree with the original poster. I can't believe that people call Vic a sadist. That's ridiculous. Vic gave the kids the skills and the confidence to help him after the fall, to pull him up, to try and start a fire without matches, to take the canoe to safety and all the rest.
Vic's intentions are clear from the dialogue. He's not a sadist.
Vic: We're all on the same lineshare
Vic: You can do it, I know you can
Vic: Trust yourself
Vic: It's okay, can you get a foothold?
Alan: I can't, I can't do it...
Vic:: Alan, I know you can do this. I've got you anchored, you're not going to fall.
Alan: I can't do this...
Vic: You can... if you try.
Heres the ironic part.
The first time I saw this movie, (10years ago) I thought, wow, that Vic sure is crazy. Why would he treat the kids like that?
I just watched it again. Now my thinking has changed. Everything Vic did was right on.
Why have I changed my mind? My age? No matter.
It's half and half. Alan was a little defiant, but Vic overdid it at times.
And any guide who leaves a kid hanging off a mountain would be facing a serious lawsuit.
I watched WWS this morning for the first time in a long time. I thought Vic was right on with some things but the whole Devil's Tooth sidetrip was ludicrous. Do trail guides usually take novices up on (somewhat) sheer faces with full camping packs strapped on and Adidas sneakers to get footholds with? Reason 5,673,234,239 why 80's movies rule b/c that would never happen in a movie today. The viewer just sits there thinking "Lawsuit. Major lawsuit." I enjoyed it though and if Vic weren't a titch over the edge it wouldn't be worth watching.
shareIt's half and half. Alan was a little defiant, but Vic overdid it at times.
They never went up anything that was even worth using the word "sheer faces." The only person that did that was Vic, after he changed into climbing shoes.
shareEven though Kevin Bacons actions in the scene made him look crazy, I think if you read into it, he was teaching him a lesson, and knew Alan would do it on his own if he just tried. Keep in mind too, that Vic had been holding his hand the whole trip and mabey that was his way of teaching him how to get some guts, and be a man about it, and in the end, he did just that. That's why he had the guts to take Vic down the river on his own and eventually save his life.
shareThat is why no one is allowed in the boat without a liability release.
sharebacon is nuts. he is a savage. he doesn't think and is all rah-rah. the part with teh fish trap showed how crazy he is. however, he probably meant well but was just nuts. everyone knows people like bacon in real life.
that said, the kid who attacked him with the rock went nuts too. i think this movie tries to tell the same story that lord of the flies did- that intelligence, sanity and moderation beats crazed macho delusions of manhood.
Whether he was trying to teach Astin anything or not, what if Astin had fallen off the suspension bridge? Or his teather snapped on the rockface? Or unexperienced Astin falling out of the canoe on the first whitewater trip? Bacon's character is damn lucky Astin survived all those things. Notice during his slideshow he didn't say "Now if needbe, I leave the kids dangling on the cliff to become men". Or "There's this rickety-ass suspension bridge held by threadbare rope and only single planks 182 feet off the rocky waters". His ma would've *beep* a brick!
sharebacon is nuts. he is a savage. he doesn't think and is all rah-rah. the part with teh fish trap showed how crazy he is. however, he probably meant well but was just nuts. everyone knows people like bacon in real life.
Leaving him hanging on a cliff or having everyone swing over...whatever, he knew he wouldn't fall and he didn't.
About the fish, it's about doing what your told and he was challenging him the entire time.
The kid was a pain in the ass and the real nutcase is the Father for letting him go in the first place. Any Pops that doesn't know his Son is going to ruin a trip cause he's a little Mary....just doesn't know his kid too well or just simply needed a break from his wussy ways and probably hoped he'd get lost in the woods.
Sarcasm aside, the kid was a pain in the ass and Vic is the man although I'm pissed at him cause I can't get that song out of my head now....
"I just saw that seen... and I was like wtf.... That was really creative and neat way trying to catch fish. That was really smart. The scout leader(Bacon), he was nuts to throw away those fish like that.
Realism alert: If you were really trapped out in the wilderness or lost in a forest or jungle, you wouldn't care how anybody catches a fish or any other animal as long as you caught period and not starve to death.
In nature there are 3 rules: 1)survival of the fittest, strongest, smartest, most clever, fastest, and etc. animals. 2) Survive anyway you can 3) No rules apply
Life is always a struggle, animals have to find novel ways of surviving or they die."
Creative and neat yes, but in situations where you have no such tools to begin with, how's he gonna catch a fish and be creative about it? That's what Vic was preparing them for. Like making a fire with woods, later in the movie, with all the matches soaken wet, would Alan be able to light a fire with woods if Vic didn't teach/show them how to?
Vic was not a sadist or evil. He was just a bit twisted, trying to teach these boys something about survival. I don't think he made a very good guide and despite knowing HOW to survive he wasn't able to teach the kids a lesson without causing them to hate him.
However, in reference to Band of Brothers, it's because of their hatred for Sobel that Easy Company becomes the best.
Sure, towards the end when he's yelling at them "YOU CAN'T LEAVE" he's a bit screwed up in the head. But doesn't anyone remember the scene where he's playing chess with Sean? He obviously knows that if he doesn't move his player somewhere else Sean will beat him, and yet he allows the kid to do so. Boosting his confidence and helping the kid feel proud about something.
Yes, he took his teaching methods to the extreme which would never happen to today, but in the end they worked -- didn't they? Sean develops leadership skills that he didn't have at the beginning and he and his friends learn how to do things that help them save Vic and find the Ranger Station.
He wasn't evil. Just...unsure of how to teach them without being demanding and strict.
"Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe *beep* yourself." -- The Departed
Poaching fish in the mountains is not a joke. It's a serious crime and unsportsmanlike. I would've been just as angry. If fishing was all about catching I'd use dynamite or drift nets. We could clear those alpine lakes in a day. Catching fish with a pole, hook, line and sinker requires skill and patience.
shareExcept this was a survival course. The point was to learn to survive and catching is the focus in gathering food.
shareAlan was a pussy! Anyone who has been in the military would recognize Vic. He would have made a great Drill Instructor.
share[deleted]
[deleted]