MovieChat Forums > RoboCop (1987) Discussion > Doesn't Make Sense...

Doesn't Make Sense...

posted 9 years ago by chrismovieman
19 replies | jump to latest

Okay, I know its just a movie so maybe I'm over-thinking things. But 'ROBOCOP' is also often praised as a decent science fiction film too. I'll admit that there are some good science fiction elements here. I also like the question of what makes a human truly human, rather than a mindless robot.

But ultimately, the story doesn't make much sense to me. Lets review...

The giant robot 'ED-209' is going to be used for law enforcement in the city but it malfunctions and kills an innocent person in the board room. So instead of ED-209, they decide to go with a "contingency plan" of Robocop, which is essentially a (dead) piece of human body inside a robot. I guess that sort of makes sense.

Later in the film, we learn that Robocop comes to have some realization of his former identity, but its not really part of his design, let alone the original plan. They clearly say in the film, "we're going to wipe his entire memory" so its not like Murphy's knowledge or experience in law enforcement matters at all. If the plan was always to "wipe" the memory of the person, then they could put literally ANY dead person inside the machine, right? Robocop even says about his family "I can't remember them", showing that his memory is pretty much gone, more or less. When one of the scientist brags that "we managed to save his arm", they say that they were going for "full body prosthesis", so its not like his body matters at all. He even says "lose the arm!"

His mind is also programmed for 3 (or 4) "prime directives" that he has to abide by and they talk a lot about his "programming" - so Robocop was designed to have a robotic brain as well - he was designed to be forced to follow a program. (Even though the design doesn't work exactly the way that they planned and Murphy seems to be the hero at the end).

So... basically they reject the idea of having a robot (ED-209) on the police force and instead, they can get part of a dead body, wipe the memory so that the dead person doesn't bring any of their experience or thought processes. THEN they 'program' it like a robot, ensuring that it has to follow prime directives like a computer.

So... what's the difference between a robot that is pre-programmed and a robot with a dead body inside that is pre-programmed??? Why would you have a "contingency plan" that is pretty much identical to your original plan?

[–] tenantennae 9 years ago

They took his brain and computerized it so that his instincts and reflexes (What Bob Morton refers to as "a lifetime of on-the-street law enforcement programming")would remain intact. A good example is when, harking back to an earlier scene, he sneaks up on Emil at the gas station and says "Dead or alive, you are coming with me." That's not a glitch; they wanted the essence of who he was as a cop to carry over, held in check by his program.

Otherwise, his individuality is supposed to have been obliterated. But obviously, more of his past self carried over than they intended.

[–] chrismovieman 9 years ago

"That's not a glitch; they wanted the essence of who he was as a cop to carry over, held in check by his program."

Thats an interesting notion to consider. And to be fair, they don't seem to go into an enormous amount of detail on exactly how Robocop is constructed. (It is fictional after all) I guess I get the notion that the "computerized" his brain for lack of a better word.

But again, if you wanted ANY of Murphy's law enforcement training, experience, or background to carry over; why wipe his memory? If you wipe a cop's memory, they will have no knowledge of how to even use a gun - let alone how to fight crime and successfully arrest/kill violent criminals.

But I suppose you raise an interesting question about whether a person's "instincts" can be retained even if their memory is lost. It makes me think of Jason Bourne in the "The Bourne Identity" being a lethal assassin even though he has no memory.

[–] Mr-Fusion 9 years ago

But again, if you wanted ANY of Murphy's law enforcement training, experience, or background to carry over; why wipe his memory? If you wipe a cop's memory, they will have no knowledge of how to even use a gun - let alone how to fight crime and successfully arrest/kill violent criminals.

I see what you're saying, but I think tenantennae is dead-on about keeping Murphy's police instincts. Using a gun and knowing the laws can all be boiled down to programming (targeting system, files, etc.), but an officer's "gut" is irreplaceable. And I think you draw a good comparison with Jason Bourne.

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[–] tenantennae 9 years ago

A little off topic, but for the sake of discussion, I just wanted to mention the
satirical side. OCP takes a guy who was good at his job and turns him into a robot who can do nothing but that job all the time. Sure beats paying a wage and dealing with that lousy police union 

[–] creatorof2002 9 years ago

Obviously the science of "erasing" a memory from a brain was not fully developed, look at all the glitches modern computers have,thats why I wont upgrade to Windows 10.

He kept his police skills but lost (not totally obviously) memories that would hinder his duties.

The poster above me pointed out not having to pay Robocop. The costs involved would be way greater than a cop's paycheck.

[–] tenantennae 9 years ago

The costs involved would be way greater than a cop's paycheck.

The cost is the taxpayer's problem. I'm talking about OCP. For them, replacing a human being with their own product is all profit. Outsourcing at its finest.

[–] thomas-begen-194-976045 9 years ago

You apparently have a terrible understanding of "Robocop." I don't have the time to break it all down for you, especially when it doesn't appear you took the time to carefully watch the film and relay the information to this board. ED 209 is Dick Jones' creation. After the minor "glitch" (catalyst) Bob Morton steps in with the Robocop idea, which he will produce before Jones can fix the glitch in ED 209. Lo and behold, Office Alex Murphy is killed in the line of duty.

Although any "body" can be made into a Robocop, Murphy is convenient because he's a police officer AND because he signed some sort of waiver when he became one. Thus, being clinically dead, OCP can do whatever the hell they want with him. OCP runs the cops.

So: Rivalry between Jones and Morton + malfunction of ED 209 = ROBOCOP.

Why couldn't they erase his memory? What would that mean? First off, I think you mistake memory for any kind of conditioning and experiences. There are many kinds of memory. The key to ROBOCOP for Morton is to erase his identity as a human being, NOT everything he ever learned. There's a difference. As dubious as this notion may be, an underlying theme of "Robocop" is the persistence of human identity. Murphy as brutally murdered and, arguably, even more brutally mishandled by OCP, and yet traces of his identity still persist. This may be one of only a few movies of its kind.

[–] Kojiro_Vance 9 years ago

This may be one of only a few movies of its kind.

Yup. You're right.

There are a lot movies or TV-shows out there about human identity, or robots trying to become human and what not, but this movie nailed it.

I'm gonna (mis)quote Peter Weller/Paul Verhoeven (from a youtube interview):

They take a mans life in the name of business, in the name of progress, in the name of greedy corporatism. But what they can't take, because it's God given, is his soul. His spirit.

Or something along those lines. Can't remember exactly.

His identity, character, experience as a police officer, ... was never erased. He didn't regain his humanity. It was always there.

Fantastic movie!

I'm just on my way up to Clavius.

[–] Jack-o-lantern_2623 9 years ago

They take a mans life in the name of business, in the name of progress, in the name of greedy corporatism. But what they can't take, because it's God given, is his soul. His spirit.

This is a big part of why I like the film so much. Here is a video where Peter Weller talks a bit about it, for anyone interested.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYBU-owonIE

[–] hindrik64 8 years ago

You apparently have a terrible understanding of "Robocop." I don't have the time to break it all down for you, especially when it doesn't appear you took the time to carefully watch the film and relay the information to this board.

Jeez, don't be a dick about it or anything.

[–] matthewurban 9 years ago

That was one of the few things I liked about the remake. It really touched on the whole how much is a man vs a machine thing.

[–] CapnDred 9 years ago

Robocop 2 looked at that further, though it was a much lesser movie.
They went with the premise that Murphy's personality was too strong to be broken by the programming so they went with someone deemed to be much easier to break - Caine, and found that they actually had similar problems.

And echoing what was said above, I thought the 2014 remake actually looked at the psychology angle in a very interesting and different way - making it a good remake rather than a retread. Rather than the machine that is surprised to realise how much humanity it contains, they kind of reversed it to the human realising how much he and his psychology is made of machine.
They took the idea of letting him think he was still a man with his own free will, but it becomes apparent that they are bridling him with their own will more and more as the film goes on.
The remake also explored a little more exactly why they would try to keep elements of human instincts onboard vs. pure robotic thought - there's a literal side-by-side comparison. Then the issues with it are raised and overcome.

I like to kind of reconcile the new film with the old by retconning some of the elements from the remake into the 1984 as off-screen scenes in my head.

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[–] donotwantto (17) 3 years ago

It's when he wakes up after having been made into RoboCop we hear the line about erasing his memory. Morton says this and that about the arm and some other stuff, and then he says something like "Can he understand me?" and some other guy says that it doesn't matter because they're going to erase his memory. I think what he refers to is just that they'll erase his memory of the moment when he wakes up and sees and hears them standing around talking about that stuff, and then having their little party to celebrate the success of their creation.

It makes sense (I guess) that they'd be able to erase his memory of anything that occurs after he's been turned into RoboCop, since you know, computer parts and all that. Being able to erase his memories from before he became RoboCop, however, I don't know. Obviously it's science fiction so who's to say what they can or can't do but being able to build robots and cyborgs still feels like another matter than being able to erase memories from a human mind the way you erase files from a computer. It's never really indicated in the movie that technology like that is around.

I don't really think they have any way to control what he remembers or doesn't remember from before being killed and brought back to life (kind of) and probably it's because the head shot, oxygen deprivation and the other dying stuff partially killed his brain he is only able to remember parts of the life he had before dying and becoming RoboCop.

[–] cyguration (3951) 3 years ago

So... what's the difference between a robot that is pre-programmed and a robot with a dead body inside that is pre-programmed??? Why would you have a "contingency plan" that is pretty much identical to your original plan?

Because robots don't have ingenuity. You have to design them to create counter-contingencies, but they can't do it on the fly. They don't know how to create original thoughts. Humans do.

What they needed was a human brain they could control that could also "think on the fly", so to speak, because it could still fire synaptic responses and create new thought patterns for conflict resolution and three-dimensional thinking, something ED-209 was incapable of doing. ED-209 functioned like a much cruder version of a Terminator. But even Terminators had limits and setbacks -- they had to use object analysis and data sampling before making a decision, and oftentimes it was based around a singular purpose.

Robocop made a lot of organic decision-making while upholding his directives, and doing so while maintaining the police moral code. This is only something achievable with a human brain... and a GOOD human brain. Robocop 2 quickly showcased what happens when someone who is psychologically disturbed or cognitively ill-fit becomes a cyborg: psychosis and breakdown.

Another thing to consider is that even without memories, the brain is itself a muscle that can be trained via muscle-memory, separate from the images/sounds we recount via memory cells. Muscle-memory is what Murphy utilizes for flipping his gun around (something he practiced daily to impress his son), or phrases he coined when arresting enemies. It became rote; his brain could pull it up as a reflex, which is exactly what Morton wanted for a top-notch RoboCop.

[–] avortac4 (3742) 3 years ago

I don't think this movie deserves quite this much thought, it's just a silly sci-fi romp about a misandristic robot, an unrealistic premise in any case.

You make a bit of a good point, but that's always the problem with these 'human becomes a robot beccause someone puts brain into a metal body'-premises. It would NEVER work in real life, there's a reason why you can't perform a 'head transplant' (well, multiple reasons), and why 'brain in a jar' is just a silly, old, idiotic sci-fi-premise and will never be anything more.

You are NOT your brain. That's the first gamestopper right there.

In any case, there's another similar story in the comic book world called 'Deathlok'. The first, four-issue special told the origin story, and there was the same 'memory-wiping' attempt as well, but the point there was that the brain was supposed to be used "only for STORAGE" (which makes NO sense, because brain is not a hard drive, so trying to save DATA into an organic, rotting brain, would be SO convoluted and difficult, it would just be easier and more feasible to just invent a larger-capacity hard drive - also, what the heck does a robot like that need so much storage for anyway? It can just stream the videos instead of saving them in the body, as it DOES in the comic anyway).

There are always stupidities and problems, when you try to 'define humanity in a ridiculous way', like 'a brain is a human'. Well, it's not.

You also can't really 'wipe someone's memory' by any kind of computer or digital methods, or install some directives you have to obey - of course the robotic BODY can shut down, but if you are alive in it, you will either die when it shuts down, or you continue being conscious, there's no reason (or method) why you would 'shut down' as well.

Also, it's kinda weird in this movie that the robotic body does _NOT_ shut down, although directive 4 is supposed to shut it down. Why doesn't it? The only real reason: because the movie needs to continue happening.

[–] avortac4 (3742) 3 years ago

Besides your point, I think way _MORE_ nonsensical and unfeasible part is ED-209.

- Why would they install it with LIVE AMMO
- Why wouldn't they test it BETTER THAN THAT
- Why would they make it GROWL
- Why would it be BIPEDAL and CLUMSY
- Why wouldn't they make it able to use STAIRS? (It's so easily conquered by stairs, it's insane)
- Why wouldn't it fire a warning shot first?
- Why would they give a ROBOT agency to KILL human beings?? (Every kill should AT LEAST be confirmed first by an actual human being before the robot is allowed to do it)
- Why would the glitch even happen, can't the robot scan the 'threat' again first, BEFORE SHOOTING??
- Robocop can be 'shut down' by directive 4 - why doesn't ED-209 have similar kill-switch or directive that it can't even threaten or point its guns (loaded with LIVE AMMO FOR SOME REASON!!) at OCP staff..??

None of it makes any sense, that kind of demonstration would never happen in real life - besides, they would never bring that huge, big, clumsy robot high up to that building, they would SHOW THE BOSS A VIDEO OF A PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING ROBOT instead of letting a realtime demonstration ruin everything if ANYTHING goes wrong (even something much smaller)...

But sure, talk about the brain-in-a-jar not making sense, when there are much bigger nonsensical things about this cartoon movie.

[–] sati_84 (467) 3 years ago

Yes, if you break it down like that, you are right on all counts.

But this is not a documentary. Movies try to have an effect on the audience. Growling is for effect, the stupid testing with live ammo is for indicating that this movie is (in part) a satire of corporatism.

Knowing all that, would you still uphold the entirety of your analysis? I feel that you are trying to make sense of a fictional scenario which was never intended to be depicted as a real-world scenario, and you are using real-world knowledge to try to deconstruct what is presented - but what is presented is not real, it's fictional. Comparisons to real life have limits when it comes to sci-fi movies - don't you think?

[–] mitzibishi (1835) 3 years ago

Another point is the human brain was a better computer than their current computers. The AI on ED 209 was very dumb. Bob Morton's guys had the idea to take advantage of that "intelligence", and in a fight between them, Robocop did win out because he was smarter.

[–] jacotodd47 (1832) 3 years ago

It's just a movie brother - you may have too much time on your hands.