MovieChat Forums > Hellraiser (1987) Discussion > People who solve the box

People who solve the box

posted 9 years ago by lrdcharlton
14 replies | jump to latest

One thing I never understood about who the cenobites is who take to hell and who they spare.We learn in the next movie that they don't indiscriminately take the person who opens the box, as we see with Tiffany. However, Kirsty is also ignorant of what the box was. I don't even think she actually solved it, she was just looking at it, she didn't know what it was or used for.But the cenobites, when it comes to Kirsty, are ready to take despite the fact she really didn't know what it was. Pinhead says," it is not hands that call us, its desire". What desire did Kirsty have if she didn't know what it was? And even in the sequal they still insist that she voluntarily entered their world seeking some sort of pleasure when it's really the opposite.

[–] HellboundHero 9 years ago

I don't think anyone has to know the box summons sadomasochistic demons, they just have to have the curiosity to play around with mysterious objects, disregarding the potential consequences. In a way, they're consenting to anything that happens, even if they don't realize it. Tiffany on the other hand is mentally ill and seems incapable of choosing when and when not to solve a puzzle. It's an involuntary act which lacks passion or curiosity, and so Channard used her as his hands, as he was the one with the actual desire to know its secrets.

[–] hollyannbartel-112-273887 9 years ago

Well at least Pinhead has standards.

Of course, I don't know how high they are. He did take a little boy to hell and turned him into Butterball. So he'll take kids, but he draws the line at mental illness. I'm just glad there even is a line he won't cross. Low standards are better than no standards.

[–] HellboundHero 9 years ago

It's not that Pinhead has a line where even he isn't evil enough to do something. It's not about good and evil, the cenobites don't conform to human morals. It's simply that Tiffany opened the box the same way Rain Man solves math problems. No desire, no curiosity, just a purely involuntarily, mechanical action.

[–] Rockhound6165 8 years ago

Did any of you actually watch the movie(s)? When Pinhead said that it was desire that opened the box, Kirsty didn't open the box, Tiffany did. Channard had her open it so he didn't have to suffer the way Frank did in this movie. When Kirsty opened it, she wasn't really chosen to(the box chooses it's opener hence the vagrant/seller telling them it was always theirs). Kirsty simply fiddled with the box opening it by mistake, however, the cenobites really didn't care. It was only when Kirsty offered up the resurrected Frank when they decided to spare her. Also, Pinhead didn't lure a child in and turn him into Butterball(Butterball ended up being a fat guy). The kid's desire brought him the box and turned him into Chatterbox.

[–] HellboundHero 8 years ago

Your reply was to me, so I'll answer and say Hell yes I've watched the movies.

[–] Herreken 8 years ago

Is it known for sure that Pinhead is the one who made that kid into Butterball? I don't think Pinhead has that power.

DISPLAY thy breasts, my Julia!

[–] HellboundHero 8 years ago

I don't think Pinhead had ever made any cenobites before, otherwise he would know that cenobites were once human(unless Leviathan wiped Pinhead's mind after he created them). Also, Chatterer was the one who was revealed to be a child, not Butterball.

[–] Herreken 8 years ago

You're right, how could I forget that? The Chatterer's death was the most memorable scene in Hellraiser 2. Butterball was revealed to be just a fat human.

DISPLAY thy breasts, my Julia!

[–] davidssven 8 years ago

Doesn't he create new cenobytes in the 3rd movie ?

[–] HellboundHero 8 years ago

That's after Kirsty tells him he's human in the second movie. From 3 and onward, I'm sure Pinhead continues to be aware of his former life as a human. He creates cenobites in Bloodline also, and in Deader, he tells Winter "I sacrificed my mortal self to that box".

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] HellboundHero 8 years ago

Well what do you want me to say? It's a question that can only be answered by going off what happens in the movies. Yes, I'm aware that the movies are inconsistent and the DTV movies used non-Hellraiser scripts. The point is Hellbound went with the idea that the cenobites were humans who solved boxes and were transformed, and that for some reason, the original four cenobites were unaware of their former lives, and then the sequels after it never returned to the idea that Pinhead had forgotten his past.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] goldenpath-23151 8 years ago

The sequels having nothing to do with Barker or the story he based the first movie on. In the Hellbound Heart, when Kristy solves the box in the hospital and is visited by a cenobite, it flat out tells her ignorance is no excuse, all who open the box, must come with the cenobites. True, Kristy makes a bargain for Frank over her, but that comes off as more of an exception to the rule. Of course in the Scarlet Gospels, we learn the box itself is a trap that compels one to solve it. But that's besides the point.