MovieChat Forums > Hellraiser (1987) Discussion > (Spoiler) The Jesus Wept line

(Spoiler) The Jesus Wept line


It's a superb line. But it's been bugging me for days.

When Frank is ripped apart and utters "Jesus Wept" line. I was just trying to figure out who it refers to exactly. In this context, with him laid out, about to die, is he Jesus? It was such a ballsy move by the writer to put that in there if so; after him being utterly despicable throughout the film that he still would compare himself to Christ.

Otherwise, as Kirsty is actually crying, does he mean her?

Or is he referring to maybe the human race in general and how we haven't learned how awful we are after all this time?



Thoughts...?







https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYm2_W5dulSWJDcEp2WFE6A

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I always saw it as his quick and to the point way of saying that 'While spread out on the cross Jesus wept - but hey, look at me, I'm laughing my ass off!'.
And then he smiles widely just before he's ripped apart...

But maybe that is a much to simple take on it.

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Well, Jesus wept has usually Bern used as an alternative to 'dammit'. So I think it was more if a 'Well, this buck's line. It was an add-on by the character that the actor talked Clive Barker into keeping. The original scripted line was 'F- You'.

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I didn't know that. Great ad lib by the actor!

-Sitting on a cornflake waiting for the van to come

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OK, since the phrase seems unfamiliar to you, a quick bit of history:

"Jesus wept!" is what's called a minced oath, where a phrase used as an exclamation that might contain something obscene or blasphemous has a word changed to something innocent, so that it still works as an exclamation but no longer causes offense -- though a key feature of a minced oath is that it's still recognisable as the original "offensive" phrase but can now pretend to be innocent. An example is when someone says "Oh sugar!!" or "Far out!", which are innocent but obvious substitutes for well-known expletives. (The general concern about blasphemy seems to be disappearing from our culture, with every American and his dog now saying "Oh my god!" at apparently every possible opportunity.)

Minced oaths have been around for a long time -- since at least the time of Shakespeare, who frequently used exclamations like "Zwounds!" (short for "By God's wounds!", referring in fact to Jesus), or "Splud!" (short for "By God's blood!", so, Jesus again). Just the blasphemous bit was dropped out of the phrase, but everyone knew what they were referring to, and as well as having the effect of a modern-day F-bomb, they also carried a level of emphasis, since swearing on something as profound as Jesus' spilled blood was seen as something very serious indeed. Here in Australia, we've had the exclamation "Struth!" for a couple of hundred years (guess what it refers to?), though it's largely dropped out of use in the last couple of decades as we've become more Americanised.

So, "Jesus wept!" is a coy way of saying "Jesus Christ!", but gets round the blasphemy issue by actually being a quote from the Bible. (Book of John, where Jesus finds out that Lazarus has just died. A bit odd that Jesus would cry, since he's about to raise Lazarus from the dead anyway, but some people will tell you that Lazarus was actually Jesus' brother-in-law.) Still, as always with a minced oath, nobody is in doubt as to what it really stands for.

So, in the film (yep, I bet you wondered if we were ever going to get back to your question!), you can imagine it being a case of Frank/Larry saying, "Well, Jesus Christ!" -- both as an expression of delight (since it's pretty clear Frank is into the pain) and of horror (he was trying to avoid the Cenobites, after all, and now they've got him again). It's like saying, "Well, will you look at that!" I think it's also a case of him taunting Kirsty and her revulsion at what's happening in front of her, as if he's mimicking what he imagines her saying. And, although the Cenobites seem to come from a Hell that for once isn't the proprietary property of Christianity, it also has an edge (because it comes from the Bible) of mocking that religion. (Which makes it seem a bit dangerous.)

It's a great line, I reckon, because it's not obvious, and in the context it carries meanings on more than one level.


(Edited for typos.)


You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

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Thank you, that's what I was trying to say (well, without all the history but thank you! It was interesting!) But auto-correct butchered it. Also, as I said before, the original scripted line was "F- You!' But the actor ad-libbed the "Jesus, wept" line and convinced Clive Barker to keep it.

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So there I was, just sitting around with my dogs and saying "oh my god"......... Seriously though the image you created of every American and his dog saying "oh my god" at every opportunity made me laugh out loud, and yes you are quite right!

Let Polly do the printing

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puirt-a-beul wrote:
"Jesus wept!" is what's called a minced oath, where a phrase used as an exclamation that might contain something obscene or blasphemous has a word changed to something innocent, so that it still works as an exclamation but no longer causes offense

Re: the term "blasphemous"...

I find it odd that we in the English-speaking world equate blasphemy with cursing or disrespectful speech.

The word blasphemy derives from the Greek blasso, meaning "to block/hinder/interfere/obstruct"; and phemeo, meaning "to shine light upon something so as to make it known". Put them together and you get "to block something from being made known".

Basically, in its literal sense, blasphemy is censorship.

And so, the euphemistic approach to softening many curses by taking out the word "God" or what-not is, IMO, ironically actually more blasphemous than leaving the word "God" in would have been! Interfering with the meaning by encoding or whitewashing it is taking away from the original meaning and impact. It's blasphemy.

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I always found this line to be odd, as the line; "Jesus Wept" was John 11:35. The story of Lazarus dying. Jesus cried because his friend had died. It's got nothing to do with the crucifixion scene, in which it seems to be referencing.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it though.

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I think it's just a slang way of saying, "Damn this sucks." People often use the phrase in place of curing: "Jesus wept! That test was hard." In Frank's case, it can mean: "Jesus wept! I'm screwed."

I gotta go feed that thing in Room 33.

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In Frank's case, it can mean: "Jesus wept! I'm screwed."

I agree.
I also truly thought that Frank was deliberately mocking Jesus & God there by saying that.
He was 'comparing' his basically self-inflicted torture to Jesus' on the Cross.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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