What happened to Harold Angel's soul? - Angel Heart (1987) Discussion

[–] johnthedoe 10 years ago

What happens to the 2 yo killed childs soul? We dont know. Are you even serious?
If theres a god he was judged like everybody else

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[–] thomas-begen 10 years ago

I didn't realize any two year-olds were killed during the shooting of this film. I suppose you are right that Angel's soul would have been judged accordingly if there's a God. Favorite is several sins deep in Hell: murder, theft, incest, and who knows what else.

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[–] thomas-begen 10 years ago

Also, I hear what you are saying. But I meant the question most literally than Angel's soul likely went to Heaven. I suppose I'm interested in what is ultimately unknowable in the film: What took place the night Favorite abducted Angel? He cut out his beating heart, and ate it, thus stealing his body? There's a whole voodoo background to this film I'm trying to make sense of but which probably doesn't have a sensible answer. But the voodoo element plays a crucial role in why "Angel Heart" is so intriguing.

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[–] Rusty (548) 2 years ago

Favourite doesn’t steal Angel’s body, just his soul.

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[–] FortySix2 10 years ago

He was only asking within the context of the film, not existentially.

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[–] disinterested_spectator 10 years ago

By Johnny’s ritual, the real Harold Angel’s soul went to Hell, while Johnny’s soul was thereby saved. Hopefully, when Johnny broke the spell when he broke open the vase, his soul was then damned, while Angel’s soul was released from Hell.

I don’t think Johnny got Harold Angel’s body. The ritual only involved finding a substitute soul.

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[–] thomas-begen-194-976045 10 years ago

Interesting point. I'm not sure I agree Angel initially went to heaven or hell, or that Favorite's soul was saved. As far as I remember, Favorite was greatly disfigured; hence, he needed a new body. Plus I believe Favorite took Angel's body for the simple reason no one seems to recognize him. Am I wrong? It's been a while since I watched the movie but I got that much from it.

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[–] disinterested_spectator 10 years ago

My understanding is that Johnny and Toots Sweet perform the ritual on the soldier before the war. During the war, Johnny is disfigured, and spends time in a hospital. Krusemark and his daughter Margaret get him out of the hospital and drop him off in a crowd on New Year’s Eve where Johnny and Toots had picked up the soldier. It is their hope that this will cure him of his amnesia. In other words, several years elapse between the ritual murder of the soldier and Johnny’s being released into a crowd by Krusemark. The soldier’s body would have long since deteriorated.

If this is right, then the damage to Johnny’s face was only enough to make him look different, or that some reconstructive surgery was done while he was in the hospital.

I wrote a review on this in which I present the events chronologically, if you are interested:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092563/reviews-244

I wrote it in a dogmatic style for the sake of brevity, though I am well aware that much of it is subject to debate.

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[–] orangeandyellow2 9 years ago

Plus I believe Favorite took Angel's body for the simple reason no one seems to recognize him.

thank you for that info. i was wondering how he could have kept his body and no one recognized him.

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[–] euro4569 8 years ago

Well if the abducted boy went to hell, then why did Louis want Johnny's, since he already had an even exchange?

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[–] disinterested_spectator 8 years ago

Because accepting the soldier's soul would have been wrong. The Devil may be evil, but he is not unethical.

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[–] dragonstephen-1 9 years ago

in the book it doesn't say he goes to hell, but Favourite seems to realise he ISNT Harry

you must do what you think I right of coarse

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[–] dragonstephen-1 9 years ago

that bothered me for ages , very shocking end to this

IM GONNA PUKE OUT OF BOTH ENDS

Peep show

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[–] Naughty-God 9 years ago

From what I gathered from multiple viewings is that Johnny's soul remained intact and it was the body of the dead soldier he inherited through the black magic ritual. That's why Cyphre (Satan) has Johnny motivated enough to murder everyone involved with the body transfer even though as Harold Angel he doesn't see himself as the perpetrator.

Perhaps it was believed by the parties involved that Johnny Favorite could inherit a new soul and start all over again vis-à-vis murdering the soldier and taking his soul in exchange, but like all things with mortal men you cannot trick a higher power, not even one of God's fallen servants.

I think a better twist for the movie (I never read the book) was to reveal the soldier as a clean shaven DeNiro and that would explain the whole jumbled mess Harold finds himself in towards the end. You don't need the sin of murdering the soldier to count against him, you just need all of the lives Harold took along the way to cover up his charade.

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[–] Necronomicon2016 9 years ago

Premise: REMEMBER, Harry Angel (Johnny Favorite) recognizes himself as "Harry Angel", so his face must necessarily match the one featured on his "Harry Angel memories" in order to keep the illusion/delusion alive. Besides, people always recognize him as Harry Angel, I bet even relatives and old friends. Harry has a legal status as detective/PI, so he must have proper documents.

My guess is that Johnny had some Harold Angel's pictures (and documents) with him. After all he had originally planned to become Harold Angel (= facial surgery). When he got disfigured, the doctors found the pictures in his pockets and just used them to reconstruct his face.
Fowler never saw the final result.

Margaret Kruzmark and her father never saw the "sailor Johnny slaughtered that night", only Toots.
Maybe Toots did not recognize Harry because 12 years had passed by - Harry has the beard and longer hair, as well as a more older and worn-out aspect.

Any feedback?

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[–] Naughty-God 9 years ago

The whole detail about Harry Angel/Johnny Favorite's facial reconstruction was rather vague but it didn't bother me enough to distract from the story.

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[–] Urmelita 9 years ago

The way I see it, the ritual transferred Harry's soul into Johnny's body, so the two actually share it. By and by, Johnny lets Harry be the one in charge, kinda hiding behind his soul, so the devil won't find him. But he's always there in the background, without Johnny knowing it, and ready to "take over" when some action is needed to cover his tracks.

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[–] Necronomicon2016 9 years ago

The way I see it, the ritual transferred Harry's soul into Johnny's body, so the two actually share it. By and by, Johnny lets Harry be the one in charge, kinda hiding behind his soul, so the devil won't find him. But he's always there in the background, without Johnny knowing it, and ready to "take over" when some action is needed to cover his tracks.

No. Harry, the true Harry, doesn't exist anymore. Johnny's soul is "disguised" as Harry's soul - transmutation of the souls. Hence, the Devil cannot detect the soul anymore.

"Harry" is Johnny Favorite who lost HIS memory (brain damage) and only "recovered" the Harry Angel memories.

It was the Devil to pilot Harry during the murders.

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[–] Drooch (5333) 5 years ago

If the devil can’t detect Johnny’s soul anymore, then how did he track down ‘Harry’ to ask him to investigate Johnny (knowing full well what he’ll find)?

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[–] Drooch 8 years ago

The devil tells Rourke that the hideous murders he committed to cover his tracks were 'guided by my hand, of course', so Johnny can't have been successfully 'hiding' during any of the events in the film.

When Rourke has his well acted 'I know who I am' moment at the end, I wonder if that's a genuinely confused Harry, or Johnny in denial? It's all rather complicated and not clearly explained, but basically works because the film is awesome.

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[–] 8 years ago

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