MovieChat Forums > Inspector Morse (1988) Discussion > If I love "Endeavour," will I love this?

If I love "Endeavour," will I love this?


I'm an American, so I only recently discovered the show "Endeavour" thanks to Amazon Prime Video. My husband and I both love it, but there are just a few episodes each season (or series, as I believe you call it over there). We've already finished watching the entire show thus far and I'm debating whether or not I should watch "Inspector Morse" as well.

On one hand, I love the mysteries and how clever Morse is at figuring out little things. I don't think it's quite as well done as BBC's "Sherlock," but it's a well-written and well-acted show. On the other hand, I worry about potential spoilers that come from watching "Inspector Morse." (I've already learned the Morse never married, so that kind of kills it for me whenever there is a new romance featured on the prequel, because I feel like it's just doomed.) From what I've read on the message boards, the older Morse is really not that likable compared with younger Morse.

So, all in all, I'm not sure. Should I watch this show? Or wait until "Endeavour" has ended?

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Yes

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I'm American too and love me some British mysteries. Morse is a classic. It took me a minute to adjust(80's styles) to how old it is but the acting is on point. Starts off a little slow but by the 2-3 season I was hooked and really enjoying watching John Thaw/Morse. There are two spin offs of Inspector Morse, Endeavour and Inspector Lewis(also on Amazon prime) who is John Thaw/Morse partner. The journalist in Endeavour is John Thaw daughter in real life. There are a lot of little hidden tributes like that to John Thaw/Morse in Endeavour. There's no real spoilers except Morse is a life long bachelor. He can be very hard on people especially Lewis but is a big softy when it comes to women. I definitely recommend watching John Thaw in Morse, it's where it all began and ends...

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I also love Endeavour, but I can't stand Morse in the (chronologically) later series.

Morse is an alcoholic, arrogant, womanizer, without a speck of humility. He's rude and condescending to Lewis. (BTW, I also love the Lewis series, and have watched all the episodes multiple times.)

I WANTED to love Morse and I TRIED to love him, because so many people love him. I started with the first episode, but after three seasons or so, I just couldn't stomach a man who is so full of himself with so little, beyond an exhaustive knowledge of opera, to be full of himself about. And what's with all these women who want to have sex with him?? Ewww. It's not his age; hell, I'm older than the Morse character-- there's just nothing appealing about him.

The Morse portrayed in Endeavour is vulnerable, brilliant, and humble-- an irresistible combination. The same combination of traits is found in another one of my favorite fictional characters, Horatio Hornblower.

I'm giving Morse yet another try, hoping I can see past his obnoxious personality and find whatever it is about him that his fans seem to love.

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One is a boy, one is a man. If you are looking for someone to pine over, you'll take the younger Morse probably. But I think you don't give the "grown up" Morse a chance. For many of us, he is the much more interesting, fascinating character.

Perhaps the 3 most famous detectives in British literature are Holmes, Poirot, and Morse.

All are supremely arrogant. But very different. In recent years, Sherlock has been written in a more anti-social/aspergers syndrome kind of way. (he was always more detached and confrontational, but he is written more and more this way today)

Poirot is the only one who is devoutly religious, and has a true abhorrence of violence and sensitivity to the victims - despite having a tremendous amount of arrogance and talking down to everyone.

Unlike Holmes and Poirot - whose sidekicks exist mostly to make them look more brilliant, Lewis and Morse have a real relationship where each contributes significantly to solving the case - and Morse's respect of Lewis grows over the length of the series. (he is always the superior detective, but it is his show, after all.....)

Morse is a hopeless romantic. Unlike Holmes who is basically asexual and Poirot who is too weak to love again, Morse is falling in love with everyone woman around him - be it an ME, a victim, or even a suspect.

Morse's views towards women also make him interesting - he is old-fashioned in many ways, and doesn't think of women capable of the horrors of violence the way men are, and often overlooks one as a potential killer because of this.

TO me, Morse is interesting and realistic - I've met many people like him in my lifetime. He is arrogant, but that's the way of the seasoned detective. He is vulnerable - but in a realistic way that a grown man would be.

One other thing - all great detectives have one thing in common - they are lacking in other areas of their lives. Almost all are single and/or widowed, and a little socially inept. This contrast makes things interesting as they interact with the world and solve crimes.

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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'm still plowing through Morse... halfway through season 5 now.

Poirot and Holmes (my first literary crush was on Holmes, and BTW, he is also vulnerable, brilliant, and humble) are civil and gracious. They are arrogant, but they have ample reason to be. Morse is rude and snide with no cause to just about everyone, especially Lewis. In an episode I just watched one of Morse's colleagues remarked that he didn't see how Lewis put up with the abusive treatment.

Lewis and Morse do have a real relationship, as did Holmes and Watson, but there is no love and respect between them, as there is between Lewis and Hathaway, and likewise between Holmes and Watson.

This morning it occurred to me that Morse has the same appeal (to those who find him appealing) as Dr. House, someone who is also brilliant, but rude and abusive to the point of cruelty. I used to watch him because the cases were so interesting, but after a while I couldn't stomach his rudeness to everyone--staff, patients, families.

I AM giving Morse a chance. But the more I see him, the more I am disgusted by the perpetual scowl on his face and the sense that his mental capacity entitles him to act like an *beep*

I shall continue to watch.

I appreciate your comments very much. I'm quite curious about why people think so highly of Morse.

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What an insightful post, coolslowhand! You've really captured all three of the great detectives.

I faithfully watched Morse during the series original airings on Mystery in the US. I could scarcely wait between seasons. My mother and grandmother were also devoted fans of the great detective. Even as an ardent feminist, I always appreciated Morse's attempts to connect to women, if only in a somewhat old-fashioned way. He reminded me a bit of my grandfather in some ways (though my grandfather liked to socialize); my grandfather was also gruff on the outside at times, but a real softy on the inside. I also adored the chemistry that grew between Morse and Lewis (Thaw and Whately). That connection is part of the beauty of Colin Dexter's writing; he knows how to create complex characters, including in supporting or fleeting roles.

I was never in love with Morse, but I liked and respected him. I felt the same about Lewis, so I felt delighted when Whately returned in his own series. What a treat! When Endeavour came to the States, I enjoyed it immediately. Shaun Evans has done an incredible job with the youthful Morse; his soulful eyes and face captured my heart (and mind). Roger Allam and Sean Rigby as Thursday and Strange complement Evans' Morse beautifully. It's been intriguing to work forward and backward with the Morse story in the forms of the Lewis and Endeavour series. I hope others can find the original Morse tales as compelling as the rest of us have, though I can understand some younger viewers struggling a bit with the 80s setting, etc.

Put puppy mills out of business: never buy dogs from pet shops! 

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This discussion is fascinating.

I'm at the beginning of season 7 now. Giving Morse a chance.

I'm utterly mystified when y'all speak of the close, warm, respectful relationship between Morse and Lewis. Virtually every sentence Morse addresses to Lewis drips with sarcasm, disdain, exasperation, if it's not downright insulting. Morse's haughty, condescending tone extends even to simple replies to Lewis's greetings in the morning. Why isn't anyone else bothered by this?

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I grew up during the Monty Python era. My friends and I all interacted using a lot of their material, as well as lots of sarcasm. After college, we used to spend every New Year's Eve together, often watching Python films or wacky stuff such as Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. One year, we decided to try porn, which we found unintentionally hilarious. When someone brought a stranger into our midst, the person just stared at us all, as we kept flinging sarcastic one-liners at each other. He looked utterly baffled, then later asked our friend why we spent so much time together if we hated each other? We could not stop laughing, as we were the dearest of friends, including a spouse or two.

I see Morse in much the same light; he deals with everyone in roughly the same gruff way. I've had friends and relatives who were like that, though beneath the rough exterior, they were really good people. Over the years, Lewis realizes Morse tends to blow off much hot air, while respecting his intellect. They are a bit like an old married couple who grow accustomed to their differences as much as to their similarities. Underneath all the grumbling, Morse appreciates his sergeant, just as Lewis appreciates his superior, despite his constant displeasure.

Put puppy mills out of business: never buy dogs from pet shops! 

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Just finished season 7. In it Morse is much more civil and has almost totally dispensed with the uncalled for rudeness toward Lewis. Makes me wonder if fans said something back then. That was before the internet, but people still wrote fan mail.

Anyway, Morse didn't indulge in sarcastic humor a la Monty Python; he was snide and condescending. Not the same thing.

Starting season 8. Curious to see how it goes.


BTW, I completely agree about puppy mills. There are plenty of dogs on the street who need love and care. I've been blessed with the company of several, including two at the moment (not to mention, many cats ... three currently).

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Glad you finally found the softer Morse. I'm trying to remember if I heard any chatter about the changes in Morse, but as you said, in those days there was no social media in which to exchange opinions. I tended to discuss the show with my relatives, but I can't recall much attention being paid to the softer Morse.

I may not have expressed myself clearly enough. I tend to write these replies late at night, so my attention sometimes drifts. I didn't mean to imply Morse's quips were the same sort of sarcasm as MP's; I merely meant I didn't analyze Morse's sarcasm too much because it was so omnipresent in my own life. My family also tends to be rather sarcastic on many levels. There was an edge to Morse, without doubt. I just purchased the complete series, so it will be intriguing to watch them again for the first time in about a decade or so. I'm curious to watch again with fresh eyes to see if the condescension comes through.

Always glad to find a kindred spirit who cares for troubled pets. We've enjoyed ten great years with three rescued terriers, including our last two, who each lived more than sixteen years. We're waiting to hear about our next one. We're all so fortunate to spend time with these deserving dogs and cats.

Put puppy mills out of business: never buy dogs from pet shops! 

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I didn't realize that the last couple of seasons only had one or two episodes. So I've finished the whole show. Morse was definitely less abrasive near the end. I never got to where I liked him, though. But I like you. 😄

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Back at you, sasha99.  British series sometimes seem measured out in rather small spoons; it's quite maddening for those of us accustomed to at least 22 episodes here in the States. When I was young, we had even longer seasons. I miss those days.

As for Morse, I'm glad you found him a bit more palatable by the end. Your take on Morse has made me want to know him in a different light. I must thank you for steering me toward the novels after so many years. When I originally started watching the series, I was already in grad school, when I had no time for casual reading. I have a few books to finish first, then I can't wait to delve into the written cases of one of my favorite detectives. I hope our paths keeps crossing on these boards.

Put puppy mills out of business: never buy dogs from pet shops! 

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In the UK, sarcasm and insults do usually mean that you like someone! It's a sort of mutual understanding - Lewis isn't bothered by what Morse says to him, and often answers back with his own sarcasm or irrelevant answers.
When a British person is really, really polite to you, especially if you work together, that means they probably hate you. http://www.tomorrowstarted.com/2012/02/what-the-british-say-and-what-they-really-mean-or-translating-british-into-plain-american-english/.html

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[deleted]

You left out Marple.

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sasha99, I realize this is ages past your original post, but I wanted to concur with you and bolster your argument. I am an American who who has a very long history with Holmes, a love of British mysteries in general, and had heard of the Inspector Morse series for years. I had seen the first season of Endeavor, and so - with my acorn.tv account - sat down to see what this Morse fellow is all about.

The "ew" factor of which you speak was in full effect for me during the first few seasons. After watching the first episode I reflected on how times had changed. I have never seen anyone - old, young, whatever - hitting on women as much as he. And his roving eyes and overt appreciation of the female form just gave the willies for the women. But it was more confusing as they seemed to love it and fell for him.

His horndog approach was tempered in later seasons. When I read that the novels depict him as a lover of strip-tease clubs and pornography, it kind of made sense. Frankly, then I was glad that they had left MOST of that part out of the TV series.

I have finished viewing 7 seasons and I really like the show. There are so few references to him making passes at women now that I can enjoy it... but his rudeness always tends to put me off. I mean - I get it - he's always the smartest man in the room and is constantly bothered that everyone else can't see what he easily sees (sort of like Cumberbatch's Holmes). But Morse is difficult to like at times. I enjoy mysteries - and no one does them better than the BBC - and so I enjoy Morse. But I find that it always seems of a different time. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a "life on mars" episode with all the rude treatment of women.

Lest I think we've come very far, Mr. Trump runs for President and shows us all that we are no better than those pawing men of yesteryear. Sorry, ladies.

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Yes times have changed. I don't remember Morse's attitude to women being noteworthy when I watched it in the 1980s, but now it does all look different. (And the books are actually offensive in parts.) Just one thing: Morse wasn't made by the BBC. It was ITV.

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I recommend watching the episodes in order of production. There is a lot of information about Morse that is revealed gradually over the series, which can be confusing if you come at the series from random points in time.

For example, we learn in the first episode that Morse suffers from vertigo. We also learn that he has a very weak stomach when it comes to blood and guts. And we meet the first and most delightful of the three pathologists Morse works with in the series, Max - whose cynical wit is classic:

Morse: How do you *get* morphine?
Max: I write myself a prescription and go to Boots!

FYI-'Boots' is the British equivalent to Walgreens and CVS.

Also - and this is critical to understanding Morse as a person - he is *not* a womaniser. For a start, he's not *nearly* successful enough to qualify for the label. He genuinely does "suffer from cupid's dart," as he puts it in "The Sins of the Fathers" - when one of the daughters-in-law remarks he would be a good catch and then, by way of a subtle query, sings the opening line from "A Bachelor Gay Am I" (the best known song from the generally forgotten 1917 musical The Maid of the Mountains). Trouble is, he's hopeless at relationships because he has no idea what to do; so he's continually getting his heart broken.

He does have some great lines about sex, though - or, rather, the lack of it - as in "Last Bus to Woodstock," where he says, "Is sex more trouble than it's worth? I keep wanting to find the answer."

In "Dead on Time," we meet the woman, Susan, who was once Morse's fiancee, and whose husband appears to have been killed by their son-in-law. As the plot advances, we get a definite sense that Susan and Morse could be very happy together - but for the fact they can't. We also see in this episode how much a friend, if not surrogate son, Lewis has become.

In "Cherubim and Seraphim," we meet Morse's step-mother and half-sister, as he has the painful task of investigating why his teenage niece has committed suicide. (A young and handsome Jason Isaacs guests in that story as a villain.) I think this is the only time we actually see anyone from Morse's family, though we do hear about them.

Morse eventually does get into a nice and cozy relationship with Adele Cecil, whom he meets in "Death is Now My Neighbour." They get along sufficiently well that he reveals his first name to her - and, thus, to viewers of the series. (He's never even told Lewis!) He gives it to her as the anagram "Around Eve."

Adele: ...but I all can come up with is "Endeavour." Only nobody's *called* "Endevour." [There is a pause during which Morse is silent; then Adele realises and says, with great sympathy] Surely not!

Lewis, having finally learned his boss's/surrogate father's first name after all these years, is also sympathetic as he softly says, "Your poor sod!"

Adele also appears in "The Wench is Dead," where it is obviously that she and Morse are in a very comfortable place. Alas, in "The Remorseful Day," we learn that Adele has emigrated to Australia.

Below is a chronological list of episodes. Note that while Last Bus to Woodstock was the first novel, it is *seventh* episode (# 3 in series 2).

Toward the end, from 1995 to 2000, when John Thaw was busy doing Kavanaugh, QC (and, unbeknownst to the public, being treated for esophageal cancer), only one Morse episode was done per year.

Particular favourites of mine include "The Settling of the Sun", "The Infernal Serpent," "Driven to Distraction," "Masonic Mysteries," "Greeks Bearing Gifts," and "The Wench is Dead."

Uniquely, "Promised Land" has Morse and Lewis travel to Australia, to where a family was dispatched when the husband and wife were placed in witness protection. Only now the man who was sent away on their evidence is out of prison. Not only has he figured out they're in Australia - he knows precisely where, and what name they now use. Coincidentally, the original music used in the series was composed by Barrington Pheloung, from Australia.

1-1 The Dead of Jericho
1-2 The Silent World of Nicholas Quinn
1-3 Service of All the Dead
1-4 The Wolvercote Tongue
2-1 Last Seen Wearing
2-2 The Settling of the Sun
2-3 Last Bus to Woodstock
3-1 Ghost in the Machine
3-2 The Last Enemy
3-3 Deceived by Flight
3-4 The Secret of Bay 5B
4-1 The Infernal Serpent
4-2 The Sins of the Fathers
4-3 Driven to Distraction
4-4 Masonic Mysteries
5-1 Second Time Around
5-2 Fat Chance
5-3 Who Killed Harry Field?
5-4 Greeks Bearing Gifts
5-5 Promised Land
6-1 Dead on Time
6-2 Happy Families
6-3 The Death of the Self
6-4 Absolute Conviction
6-5 Cherubim and Seraphim
7-1 Deadly Slumber
7-2 The Day of the Devil
7-3 Twilight of the Gods
8-1 The Way Through the Woods
9-1 The Daughters of Cain
10-1 Death Is Now My Neighbour
11-1 The Wench Is Dead
12-1 The Remorseful Day

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If you liked Endeavour, it's not a given that you'll enjoy Morse. Still, try watching PBS; they play all kinds of programs that might fancy you. You can watch PBS online also and choose from any of their affiliates (a nice little way to "game the system") or just type in your local station. They play different programming largely depending on funding.

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I think that you will. It's not as edgy as Endeavour but there are some wonderful stories. As a note, Abigail Thaw who appears as a newspaper editor is actually John Thaw's daughter.

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If I love "Endeavour," will I love this?
It's different. Morse is more of skirt chaser than I recall (I'm watching them over from the start to I can move on to Inspector Lewis) and won't say what his first name is, or why.

He's gruff, almost abusive, with Lewis and unless Endeavour brings us into the point in the show, a good ways ahead, as to why, you cannot help wonder what made him so tart and terse as well as impatient. He mocks and makes fun of Lewis and my only guess is he's a happy chap and Morse isn't so he tries, and fails, to rob his joy. So Inspector Morse is nothing like Endeavour at all. It IS, however, VERY GOOD in its own right.

GFW

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You should because Colin Dexter is involved since he started with Inspector Morse, then Inspector Lewis, and now Endeavor.

So much is making sense now.

GFW

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yes

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If you enjoy the difference between chalk and cheese .
Then you might like it.
Morse and endeavour come across as two totally different people.
Not the Detective Inspector Morse as imagined by Colin Dexter.
Then a prequel of the younger man.
They are nothing alike.

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Think back to your years as a young person or even a child. Weren't you different? They manage to maintain certain characteristics of Morse: loves opera, can't hang onto a girlfriend, drives a Jag, drinks and solves murder cases in spite of the fact that he's revolted by dead bodies.

The stories are believable, the characters are believable, and there is nothing jarring. Believe you me, I have seen some jarring remakes.

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personally i think Morse is better than Endeavour, i find the young Morse a bit bland compared to the mature Morse. Old morse is a more interesting character.

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