Blackface isn't a big deal
Not a single person in existence or throughout history has ever been harmed by another person wearing brown makeup in a movie. Can we all stop pretending like it's somehow a terrible thing?
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Within the context of this movie, you're correct. Others like Trading Places, The Jazz Singer, etc. are also just plain fun. Too many people over-react to anything they think they can exploit for their own agenda. Screw them.
But throughout history? Uh-uh. Blackface in the old days was most often meant to be demeaning to our people, it wasn't right, and it hurt.
It certainly has caused a lot of harm throughout history. The footage of Judy Dence forced to wear blackface make up as a child is disturbing.
shareIt's not the makeup though, it's the attitude behind that.
shareBirth of a Nation is certainly a large example of black face with malicious intent, it was not "fun" or "innocent." The black characters were portrayed by white actors in black face to be mocked in a racist manner. Most of the time the "attitudes" are negative. No one is "pretending" it's a "terrible" thing, it was mainly used historically to support the propaganda against blacks that included lynching and segregation, so it indeed is a terrible thing and nothing to defend. Even in old movies when it seems "harmless" and "fun," these were still during times when segregation was legal and black people did not hold the same rights as white people, so it's nothing to downplay and say it "isn't a big deal."
shareYes but again, it wasn't the makeup, it was the attitudes behind all of that.
shareYes and I'm saying the attitudes behind the make up are more often than not good, and should not be defended just because of the very rare times that it might be okay or at least acceptable.
shareSo C Thomas Howell is racist? lol no
shareDid I say he was? Lol no
shareSo Dan Aykroyd is racist then?
I never even knew he did blackface
shareTrading Places, strntz mentioned it.
You said the attitudes behind the make up are more often than not good (I'm going to assume you meant more often than not, not good because that makes more sense with the rest of your statement.) and should not be defended but so far 100% of the attitudes behind the makeup have been fine.
What about Al Jolson, was he racist?
If you're just going to keep naming different actors that have done blackface, I find big companies making this content to be the racist ones more so than the actors dressing up and portraying themselves as such. At the end of the day they're probably just in it for the paycheck, and yeah it's lame, but they're probably not racist.
Also yes, sorry about my wording.
That's the point I'm trying to make, not all blackface is created equally. I challenge you to find a genuinely racist depiction of blackface from Hollywood from the last 50 years. It doesn't exist anymore, what happens is people confuse makeup and impressions and jokes as blackface. I'm saying wearing black or brown makeup isn't enough to state prejudism and bigotry unequivocably.
shareMiyagido, you're asking for the dumbest generation ever to understand nuance.
Good luck.
They are not just dumb. They are not just stupid. They don’t just live in a fantasy world. They are proud of that and they love it. That’s why they cry out like spoiled brats when you point this out to them.
shareBoomers? yes.
Gen X? No. Seems to be a very smart generation. Maybe even the smartest.
I believe this site must be filled with more boomers.
Millennials and zoomers, to be precise.
shareBoomers are the ones that ruined society. Yet all the blame is put on those younger.
I forgot, are zoomers the same as Gen Z or the next generation after Gen Z?
Gen Z and Zoomers are the same. I don't know what the generation after them is called.
I'm curious--how did boomers (my parents' generation) ruin the world?
They're the ones that enabled all the movements (ERA/feminist marches ((shaming housewives, pushing for abortion rights)), giving out "participation trophies," started "pride" parades, encouraged the "flower child hippie lifestyle" with drugs and drinking, and many are earlier supporters that continued the marxist agendas we see today. I didn't say they ruined the world, I said they ruined our society, there is a difference, though the world is up for debate. Somehow all the blame is placed on Millennials even though boomers are the ones who were responsible for raising them.
(By the way this site is not filled with Gen Z and Millennials.)
Some good points. I would add that Gen X is also responsible for some of these young people running around who have no concept of context or nuance.
shareI think there are bad people within Gen X of course, but at least most of them tend to try to make immense for the generation that came before them. I feel as though gen x is a little less critical of the younger generations, not that there aren't plenty of good, kind boomers, but I have people in my life that are the literal epitome of "boomer stereotypes," with the whole complaining about how hard life was back in the day and how easy we have it now, while then going on to say how much better and easy life was.
shareThe boomers did still have to contend with the draft and they were alive to see ACTUAL racism and sexism going on. Technology, while pretty advanced after WWII, was not what it is today. The fact is, as a society becomes more and more affluent and more dependent on technology, the newer generations will have an easier time. The U.S. got to enjoy the spoils of war after WWII and that has spoiled a lot of people (the "Greatest" generation was equally critical of the boomers, calling them entitled and lazy). It's just a natural cycle. The upside to all this is that an affluent society eventually gets so lazy that is crumbles and the generations forced to put it back together suddenly "have it tough" again!
So, I'm not saying you're wrong, but what's happening is a natural, human reaction to living in a rather comfortable society (I doubt people in third world countries have any of these issues because their lives are always difficult).
I can agree that "generational trauma" is somewhat (though not completely) an American issue, or at least (I live in America) we handle it in our own American way, unlike the way other countries would handle it.
Oh they had their problems for sure. Many struggles. I know I'm too hard on boomers but it's because I get fed up with the way they talk about us. Yes, you've experienced life, and have your wisdom. So share your wisdom instead of constantly shaming us. They were still given something of a clean slate to start with, and what we got out of it was a mess. (Of course they did some things right) ((participating in civil rights marches, and of course I'd say half of the anti-war propaganda was valid as long as it wasn't the "you turn into the monster you fight against."))
The world is indeed a mess.
shareYet you have no problem with womanface, do you?
share"Womanface?"
shareYou know what I’m referring to.
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Drag is not the same thing as blackface, there's no such thing as "womanface," and is hardly relevant to the subject.
shareIt is totally relevant to this conversation and you are a goddamn liar.
shareWhat makes it relevant? Where did I lie? We're talking about race here, not gender/sexuality.
Fyi I'm not supportive of the "pro trans/gay rights movement" that tries to normalize drag queens in children's media or anything like that, so stop trying to pit me in a category.
When you said there is no such thing as womanface when there are men deluding themselves into thinking they’re the opposite sex when they’re not, and real women are actually being harmed by this. That is a goddamn lie. These men are treating womanhood like a costume.
It’s relevant because it’s an actual problem that is causing real harm. You are getting bent out of shape over a little girl putting on make up as Tiana for Halloween. What more needs to be said about that?
Whatever our opinions on the topic may be, "womanface" is not a thing. If you want to refer to it as that then fine, but that doesn't mean your terminology exists. It's a matter of me disagreeing with your opinion, I did not "lie."
Was I bent out of shape? The race vs. sexuality comparison is an old, worn and weak argument that leads to nothing.
Go ahead and keep lying and denying the reality that’s in front of you. You’re digging your own grave and destroying your credibility.
shareI didn't deny anything. I can acknowledge the harm that the shoving of this sexual agenda is causing harm to society. I never denied that. I'm only denying your definition of "womanface." I guess if it were up to you, everyone should be laughing at your "ahahahahehehehohoho 'womanface' so funny and real." That would make you happy. I think the delusional one here is you.
We could've easily found common ground. Shame.
So you are admitting that all of this is happening, yet you refuse to acknowledge that this is womanface. Do you realize how inconsistent you are being?
Yes, I’m delusional because I called something what it is. Because that’s totally what delusional means.
I'm trying to say you're comparing two things that aren't the same. They may both be harmful, yes, but in different ways.
Yes it's about the intent and the simple act of wearing coloured makeup isn't bigoted or discriminatory in any way, neither are impressions of other nationalities or races simply because they are impressions of other nationalities or races. Even stereotypes can be fine, I miss when stereotypes were fun and we could laugh at the silly differences. It's all in the intent and I don't think any black person is really offended by this movie any more than I think any white person is really offended by White Chicks.
And yes I suppose I should clarify, I am talking about blackface in movies and when I say harm I mean physical harm. I don't think there's been any incidents of blackface being actual prejudice in a Hollywood movie, certainly not in my lifetime at least.
Dan Aykroyd is officially my favourite blackface, way better than Trudeau. I'd definitely hang out with Lionel Joseph!
shareMy only problem with that after 20 years of annual viewings (every new year's) is that it finally occurred to me: how did a milquetoast uppity white guy like Louis Winthorpe III pull off such a convincing Jamaican accent? It's not like a guy like that would have spent any time whatsoever doing Jamaican impressions during his lifetime.
shareOh he possibly had a few holiday villas there!
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I think that's what makes the Lionel Joseph persona so hilarious. Here's a milk toast white boy who not only dons blackface, but does a great Jamaican stoner. The ridiculousness and outrageousness of it all is why this works so well.
If we have to explain it, maybe young Winthorpe watches MTV and listens to Bob Marley in his downtime and secretly pines for that lifestyle..
I 100% agree that Lionel, from the African education conference, is a great character/persona. I just can't see Winthorpe pulling it off given what we know about him on-screen.
I like your explanation. Maybe Louis was at one time a young teenage rebel acting out and has now awoken that younger rebellious self.
Oh, Winthorpe. I'm glad your parents are not alive to see this.